Poll

[Jedd Johnson]

I want to add a few additional lifts and weights for those lifts for the qualifiers for Nationals.

When I first made the qualifier lists, it seemed like the same events were being held quite often.

Since then, promoters have expanded their events to included many other challenges, and some of the normal qualifier events are not done as much.

I'd like to get some insight from you all for the last few lifts that will be considers as qualifiers for this years Nationals, based on what has been held in contests this year.

I am listing a few feats and events along with weights that I can think of that have been done in competitions over the past year. Remember, some have been events and some have been parts of a medley. Vote on what you think should be considered a qualifying lift/feat for Nationals.

For the list of events to include, you can vote for more than one, but I ask you only vote for your preferred 3 feats/lifts and also only vote for one in a category. For instance if you like sledge stuff, please only vote for one sledge lever and one sledge dime lift.

For the second question, please only vote once.

Also, If you could provide info as to why you feel the way you do, that would be great.

Thanks for helping me out with your opinions and feedback. This is something I have been wondering about, but only now has it seemed like others have had the same questions.

Thanks all.

Jedd

[barbe705]

I only voted for the three as you requested but, I think that there are more than 3 lifts on that list that should be qualifying lifts.

I think that the front lever with 6# is a good lift. it's strong but not super human. I think it depends what you want the qualifiers to do. I think that the ggc itself is what establishes the best of the best. so, I think that as long as the qualifying lifts weed out the every man they're doing the job. I don't think they need to be extreme examples in their own right. also, I think that some things are already excepted, such as an inch lift, 2x45, blob. I think they just need to be added to the list.

I think the list needs to change because if the lift is good enough it should count. so, it has to be a pretty comprehensive list considering how varied comps can be.

[rico300zx]

Jedd I see the 1 and 2 inch vbar lifts are pretty steep. The sledge lever should be upped to 20 lb.

Parris

[Hubgeezer]

I voted. It is a little confusing, in that there are a set of standards now, and I guess we are just voting so as to add items to the qualifying events, not to replace the old standards.

I think the previous standards were "about right", and the things being added, as well as some of the comments already are, well, they seem to be all over the map. For example, Parris is suggesting a 20 lb hammer sledge but that the "vbar" levels are "steep"? A 200 lb two inch vbar is nothing, and a 20 lb hammer lever is fantastic. They do not seem anywhere close to each other. (sorry Parris )

And, so far, has there been an issue of "too many" competitors in the contest? If not, the standards don't have to come up. If yes, then maybe not.

[barbe705]

I think that the thing with the 20# lever shows how I feel about some of the lifts as well. if your good at hammers you feel like a 20# is a good lift, nothing great. on the other hand for most people a 20# lever would be outstanding. so, maybe this discussion is a good thing.

I was under the impression that these would be added to the list, not instead of.

[climber511]

It's Nationals - it's supposed to be steep enough to make qualifying have meaning and keep competition at a reasonable standard. But life does sometimes get in the way - injuries, job and family changes etc. So I support a two prong approach - with adding additional qualifying events and having those lifts count for two years instead of one. I think many (but not all) of the lifts that make the GB record and stats lists should count - Blob, 5 or 6 tens, 3 twenty fives, 200# wrist curl, hubbing a 45, 2 forty fives pinch and of course the double lifts of the same things. And in view of the Worlds Strongest Hands contest being the biggest series of grip contests this year - the apparatus used there should have standards which qualify as well I think. Other than that I voted. The problem is that qualifying is hard (or impossible) if you are unable to get to a competition or at least somewhere that has the needed items to lift during the qualifying period of the last year. Nationals should have some standards - having people who are unable to lift the beginning weights is not something that should happen at the National Championship - that's what the "feeder" or other contests are for in my mind.

Edited August 17, 2010 by climber511

[rico300zx]

I voted. It is a little confusing, in that there are a set of standards now, and I guess we are just voting so as to add items to the qualifying events, not to replace the old standards.

I think the previous standards were "about right", and the things being added, as well as some of the comments already are, well, they seem to be all over the map. For example, Parris is suggesting a 20 lb hammer sledge but that the "vbar" levels are "steep"? A 200 lb two inch vbar is nothing, and a 20 lb hammer lever is fantastic. They do not seem anywhere close to each other. (sorry Parris )

And, so far, has there been an issue of "too many" competitors in the contest? If not, the standards don't have to come up. If yes, then maybe not.

I'm sorry sorry sorry I thought I read 290# 2"vbar

Parris

[Guest Bullitt]

Whatever the lift, it needs to be done in competition. There are quite a few options for making it as is. You can finish top 3 in any sanctioned contest or one of the several qualifying lifts. I mean hell, I qualified for Nationals last year with only a few months of grip training under my belt, so I don't really think it is all that steep (you were nice enough to have an extra contest with all qualifying events to give us a shot to get them ). This year I qualified by finishing 3rd AND I completed 3 of the qualifying lifts in a comp (and did that after not training for 5 months because of my elbow). How many people that didn't qualify under the current rules would actually attend if they qualified under the expanded qualifiers? Most of the people that will come up there for Nationals will be people that attend a contest or 4 per year and most will have done very well at one or more of those. It should be for the serious contestants. It shouldn't be easier.

All that being said, I understand the need to get enough people to make it a great contest, so as a promoter you have to do what is needed. If you do add them, I think they should be as steep as the others though. Not out of reach, but up there. By the way, a 200# 2" vbar lift is way too low. Just saying.

Anybody named Barbe should have to finish 1st in 2 contests or complete all of the qualifying lifts.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Bullitt

[Hubgeezer]

I'm sorry sorry sorry I thought I read 290# 2"vbar

Parris

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! That's different!

[rico300zx]

I'm sorry sorry sorry I thought I read 290# 2"vbar

Parris

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! That's different!

Brent and Jedd, sorry about that the 20# hammer was based om me thinking the 2" vbar was 290. So in leu I figure that 16 would be better. 20# is a lot and actually we want people to show up. I also like the idea of qualifing for 2 years. I'm only saying because I really want to come since its my birthday and all but if there is a problem here at home then I'm screwed as usuall. I'm sure those of you with kids totally understand, or maybe its just my particular situation here at home.

Parris

[Jedd Johnson]

Good discussion guys. I'm taking it all in. Let's keep it going...

[Rick Walker]

Nationals is supposed to be the best, therefore the lifts should be hard enough that you cant qualify without some serious time training.

1" Vertical Bar - 290

2" FBBC Vertical Bar - 200

Gripper - IM #3 or equivalent (140#), or 150# choker close

Reverse Bending - Grade 5x6" bolt

Axle Deadlift - 290

Plate Pinch - 170

One Hand Deadlift – 225

I havent trained grip with any consistency in years and looking the above list, with the exception of the bending, I could qualify right now. In my opinion, the weighs/feats aren't hard enough.

[Jedd Johnson]

Nationals is supposed to be the best, therefore the lifts should be hard enough that you cant qualify without some serious time training.

1" Vertical Bar - 290

2" FBBC Vertical Bar - 200

Gripper - IM #3 or equivalent (140#), or 150# choker close

Reverse Bending - Grade 5x6" bolt

Axle Deadlift - 290

Plate Pinch - 170

One Hand Deadlift – 225

I havent trained grip with any consistency in years and looking the above list, with the exception of the bending, I could qualify right now. In my opinion, the weighs/feats aren't hard enough.

Point well taken. However, you may be one of a small percentage that could do that. You have a naturally strong grip anyway because you train your ass off in other ways.

As I look closer, I definitely think the 200# 2" Vertical Bar is too low. The 1" is pretty close to where it needs to be, maybe an even 300. Gripper, yeah a #3 close isn't what it used to be anymore. Axle, maybe an even 300. Euro Pinch of 170 is right around the cut-off. One Hand Deadlift, seems pretty close.

Not disputing with you Rick. Looking at those numbers, they may need some adjusting. If I had more time I would go back and look at numbers done in comps and try to find the average and go from there, but I do not have that kind of time.

Did you vote for the selections above, Rick?

[Rick Walker]

Yes, I voted for half a hundred block weight. I only picked one, but looking it over again, I would add the 45 hub and 2-45s pinch. I think the inch is too hand size based to include it.

With the axle you could always do something like 300 is the base weight. For every pound you weigh over 200 pounds bodyweight, you add a pound to that 300, rounding down. Every pound under 200, you subract a poun. So with me at 225, I would have to pull 325. I would be hard pressed to do that at this moment. Same with the 1" v-bar. Start it at 300 and adjust.

Of course, this brings weigh-ins into the contest, but every other strength related event weighs competitors, so why shouldnt grip? Also, it might get guys training more then just their hands and get them into a little bit of shape. If I know I have to pull 350 on the axle cause I weigh 250, I might drop some of that extra weight.

Just a thought!

[Jedd Johnson]

Pretty cool idea.

[jpmmkrahling]

I would have to dis agree with the weight portion Rick, Sorry. Being a heavier contender myself, at 275 that would make the 1" v bar 375 for me, and with that though there are not very many people that would do that at all, let alone for a qualifer. Size does help a little bit in grip, but size is more of a leverage thing that would help alot more with a DL event then v-bar, in my opinion.

But i do agree that some of the levels should be raised a little. Just basing it off my own PR's, and not being good enough to really make a difference, i feel i am just below where a cut off should be. The only reason i beat anyone in the heavyweight division of Gripmas was because of Sledge, and it was very similar results at CGC, So i guess i'm saying that if i could make it, its a little too easy and i may be close on a good day depending on how many things i would need to be able to do.

I have pulled about 220 on the 2" but about 280 on the 1", so with that i would think maybe raise the 2" portion. The axle DL at 300 seems low also, we did that for reps at CGC, but 320 i still can not get off the floor.

So i guess i'm saying that i do not feel i deserve to qualify for something like Nationals without really pushing my PR's just a little bit, not like years of work, but some serious work for a couple of months.

[climber511]

Having Nationals as the only contest with qualifiers puts Jedd in a tough position. He needs some numbers to make a viable contest at least break even but he also believes that a certain level of competitor should be there and not just anyone. The very small number of contests each year offered in grip means a very small pool of people even have the opportunity to put up such numbers. We have gone through this discussion before - take for example Tex and Rich down at Sorinex - I think we might all agree they have the necessary level of strength but have not to the best of my knowledge done those numbers in competition. It seems like we should take a look at the whole process for next year - probably a little late for this year.

[Jedd Johnson]

Hard to believe only about 15 people voted in this poll. At least that is how many people it says voted in the second question.

OK, this is what we are going to do for this year's Nationals, since there were so few contests this season.

A 16-lb Sledge Lever, 180-lb One Hand Axle Deadlift, Blob or Blob50 Lift, as well as a Vulcan close of Level 13 Gold, and a Wrist Developer Success at Level 3 Gold and Level 11 Orange.

If you met these marks or the ones in the list above, you have qualified for National competition in September 2010.

I will look at these more closely once Nationals is gone by, and I will make an announcement here for everyone who competes.

Thanks to those who posted or voted here to help me out with a decision. It is good to get others' insight.

Jedd

[Rick Walker]

Jedder-

I know we wont have much time to chat at Nationals, but I would like to sit down and discuss some of this stuff. I think we could come up with some great ideas for the next Nationals.

I think Nationals would be awesome if it was set up to be non-conventional. The athletes have to hit the conventional lifts to qualify (#3 or higher, 50 blob, 2-45s pinch, 300+ axle, what ever) but then for Nationals the lifts are unknown. Throw together 5 or 6 unique events that will challenge the athlete's total hand strength. Basically, if they are strong, they will do well regardless.

I have a ton of ideas (rolling thunder bodyweight hangs for time, tug of war using work gloves, Eagle Loops car pull, etc.)

IMO, this would make for a great contest.

[Jedd Johnson]

Yeah, it's gonna be a weird Nationals this year. It is my fiancee's class reunion afterwards so we will have to cut the post-contest festivities short, unfortunately. We just found out about this the other day and it is too late to re-schedule everything.