Set Vs No Set?

[popol]

I got myself my first IM grippers 2 days ago.

It's definitely possible to close a gripper without a set, but it's harder.

I understand that the set is a rule for certs and contest. It helps you develop more more strenght on the final inch of the close, but it's a partial movement.

Anyway, I'm not training for a cert (no yet), I just want to use grippers as a tool to improve one aspect of my grip strenght. What kind of close should I focus on more for my goal, no set, or parallel set?

[Malice]

I train both myself. I do credit card set, MMS (parallel set) and no set. All of them work the hands and range of motion slightly different and will help better than just one over the other IMO.

[Bob Lipinski]

This comes up once a month!

MMS will likely make you stronger at all types of gripper closes. Other things train the open hand far better.

Dedicated MMS guys can train up to a good noset close easy. Vice versa does not work as well. At least for most of what I have seen.

[MVillani1985]

I got myself my first IM grippers 2 days ago.

It's definitely possible to close a gripper without a set, but it's harder.

I understand that the set is a rule for certs and contest. It helps you develop more more strenght on the final inch of the close, but it's a partial movement.

Anyway, I'm not training for a cert (no yet), I just want to use grippers as a tool to improve one aspect of my grip strenght. What kind of close should I focus on more for my goal, no set, or parallel set?

Actually, the set is not required when attempting grippers for certification (Joe Kinney didn't set his #4, for example) but it makes it a whole lot easier, which is why people even do it in the first place. I think it's great to train both, thta way you end up strong in the whole movement. Too much one way and you're like a field goal kicker that's accurate up to 40 yards, then misses every single long kick without fail, but too much the other way and you're like a field goal kicker that misses 50% of the time, even on extra points, so it's best to have a balance. For example, I can close the #3 with a deep set (just did it yesterday for the first time), but can only close the BB Super Master with no set.

I think that it's best to close grippers using all widths of set. First, of course, it's best to learn how to set the gripper. The final inch is a lot, truth be told, it's the last couple sixteenths of an inch, which to the layman may look as good as closing the gripper, that really are what drive grip trainers bananas. Here's what I do, first try to close a gripper I can't close with a parallel set, then work on that gripper with an increasingly wider set while working on getting the one above that with a parallel set. Usually in one workout, I work on grippers two levels apart each hand (it was one level apart until I got to the #2, but then I made it two levels), for example, with my right hand I use the #3 now, my left the BB Super Master, that's what I call my "heavy portion", then for the "light" portion, I do what I can with the BB Super Master right hand, BB Master left hand. The way I progress is going from parallel setting it to using an intermediate set (about halfway betweel fully open and closed), then going from there to setting it to the width one would use for a credit card set (except I don't use a credit card yet, I'm not quite ready for certification), then from there I work on closing it with no set, then I do no-set reps with it, then I try table no set closing it, then from there I do table no set reps.

[MVillani1985]

This comes up once a month!

MMS will likely make you stronger at all types of gripper closes. Other things train the open hand far better.

Dedicated MMS guys can train up to a good noset close easy. Vice versa does not work as well. At least for most of what I have seen.

That's true, I've seen guys that can barely close the #1 that surprisingly got the #3 down almost to parallel. But I've noticed that MMS closing helps that final portion for me no matter what width I use so long as I do some wider set training (I mostly focus on MMS training, but do a little training with a much wider set or no set at all with lighter grippers so I don't become like a field goal kicker that's accurate but can't kick beyond 40 yards).

[mightyjoe]

There is no BEST way.

One way is harder (no-set) the other way is easier (parallel set).

This is the 21st century folks. The old "do it this way works best" is

primitive.

No two people are alike. Experiment with what works for YOU, the INDIVIDUAL.

A good start would be to start a training journal. Now YOU can see what works

for YOU by tracking YOUR progress and listening to YOUR body. How do YOU listen

to YOUR body? A good start is to NEVER move into pain. If the movement causes pain,

avoid that movement. Move on. Experiment more and learn what makes YOU tick.

Hope this helps (sinks in).

[Cannon]

Actually, the set is not required when attempting grippers for certification (Joe Kinney didn't set his #4, for example)...

Yes he did

[MVillani1985]

Actually, the set is not required when attempting grippers for certification (Joe Kinney didn't set his #4, for example)...

Yes he did

Really? I thought he just positioned it with the other hand without actually setting it. Must've been a really wide set then.

[popol]

Actually, the set is not required when attempting grippers for certification (Joe Kinney didn't set his #4, for example) but it makes it a whole lot easier, which is why people even do it in the first place.

Maybe its my hands that are small, but a set doesn't make CCS close any easier for me. In order to slide in the credit card, I have to let the dogleg handle slide closer to my wrist. Either way, that handle will end up in that position.

I can see how someone who has a big enough hand to do a CCS with the handle sitting in the crease of his palm could get away with only training MMS, since it's the harder part of the movement.

That isn't possible for me though. In my case, the difference between CCS and MMS will not be at the start of the movement, but at the end. For CCS I have to squeze beyond the MMS range of motion. That's why I really don't see how training for MMS can have much carry over on CCS/TNS for me.

BTW my hands measure 7.5 inch. Does anyone else with the same hand size have a similar or different experience?

Thanks to everyone for your answers.

BTW I'm not asking what's best, I'm just asking myself what is the use of training with a reduced ROM other than specificity for a monster mash certification.

[Cannon]

Actually, the set is not required when attempting grippers for certification (Joe Kinney didn't set his #4, for example)...

Yes he did

Really? I thought he just positioned it with the other hand without actually setting it. Must've been a really wide set then.

There is only the one video out there, but I've never read or heard that he no set a #4. Wide set, yes, but still a set.

[Volko Krull]

His "set", now I've seen the video a couple dozen times, is equal to a positioned noset.

[Cannon]

His "set", now I've seen the video a couple dozen times, is equal to a positioned noset.

I don't see the point in trying to disguise what he actually did. "Positioned no set."

He didn't "set" the gripper; he set the gripper. He set the gripper with the other hand. It happened.

It may just be my opinion, but I don't think there is any such thing as "kind of" no set. If you touch the gripper at all with your off hand, it's over, you've set the gripper.

[MVillani1985]

His "set", now I've seen the video a couple dozen times, is equal to a positioned noset.

I don't see the point in trying to disguise what he actually did. "Positioned no set."

He didn't "set" the gripper; he set the gripper. He set the gripper with the other hand. It happened.

It may just be my opinion, but I don't think there is any such thing as "kind of" no set. If you touch the gripper at all with your off hand, it's over, you've set the gripper.

What would be the difference between a no set and a table no set then? Just wondering, because I always thought "no set" meant that you could position it with your other hand but the close was all your closing hand, while a table no set meant the other hand never once touched the gripper. I ask because I think I may have to undo the crossed off "no setting the BBSM" from my list of accomplished goals since I did position it with the left, but my right did all the closing (it's not listed on here, but on my main blog).

Edited May 17, 2010 by MVillani1985

[Cannon]

What would be the difference between a no set and a table no set then?

Maybe someone else can chime in here? I think TNS came about as a necessity for video evidence of a no set close..? That's kind of a WAG, but possibly the only difference is that with TNS there is an added step of picking up the gripper that only serves to prove on video that you did not position the gripper. If you were claiming a "no set" close, but the video started with the gripper in hand, then it can't be said for certain that the other hand never touched the gripper. Right?

[Bob Lipinski]

Splitting hairs here. I think the first time I have heard of TNS is in relation to Warren Tetting and his certs. Maybe your reason is right Matt.

Most of the time, TNS is the only real goal aimed at, contested, or whatever.

Joe Kinney probably never heard of "TNS".

[popol]

Maybe its my hands that are small, but a set doesn't make CCS close any easier for me. In order to slide in the credit card, I have to let the dogleg handle slide closer to my wrist. Either way, that handle will end up in that position.

I can see how someone who has a big enough hand to do a CCS with the handle sitting in the crease of his palm could get away with only training MMS, since it's the harder part of the movement.

That isn't possible for me though. In my case, the difference between CCS and MMS will not be at the start of the movement, but at the end. For CCS I have to squeze beyond the MMS range of motion. That's why I really don't see how training for MMS can have much carry over on CCS/TNS for me.

BTW my hands measure 7.5 inch. Does anyone else with the same hand size have a similar or different experience?

[Bob Lipinski]

My hands are 7.25.

In my experiences, MMS leads to stronger TNS/CCS stuff. I very rarely train either, and can do well one both. Well, with one caveat- I can only do okay on TNS stuff with around 2.5" or less grippers. Around that width, and I can close around an easy #3 strength. Greater than 3", and a hard 2 will stump me.

For me, setting tough grippers MMS is enough wide hand stuff for CCS and TNS.

Also, most small hand guys find the best way to CCS is to set the gripper good, then open up the hand till the credit card can fit between the handles.