gazza Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I think Alexander Zass would have pissed all over the lot of us. People seem hung up on 7/16 and 1/2inch LIMIT the mind and the PRS will stop comeing. 2 examples Paul Knight and Jeremia Fox Relatively new to bending look were they are already they will both go onto doing Moabs and more if they want it bad enough and the reason i say this is look were they started off compared to say me and pat etc they have already done about 75-85 percent of what we have done but in a much much quicker time frame so fair to say that they have still quite abit of a journey left in each of them they both are more bending specialists than other stuff which will help alot and once these guys get to know there own bodys/minds which will come with time then watch out. TIM I have always tried to egnore yield strengths and charts etc all meaningfull for engineers etc but theres alot more 2 it than that the material used,the length,the curve/bend radius,the hardness of the material itself,the wraps used,the persons pain tolerance,the persons recouperation methods,how much bending does the person do compared with other things etc,the MINDSET ive said it before and i will say it again if a slight woman can lift a car off of her husband and then collapse with injured vertabria then we aint even approaching what the human body and more importantly the MINDSET is truely capable off. Ive done alot of material comparisons useing a friends hydrolic press to see how things bend ive got aerospace yield charts etc for all types of alloys and bolts but when it all comes down to it on the day your either strong enough or not reading about and getting all hyped up over psi and yield strengths will only syke you out just keep moving up abit at a time and the strength will come there are no magic formulas or secrets just a cast iron will to keep on bending harder and harder steel. Just a few insights:- Pat sent David Horne some big g8s bent and unbent people said they could not be bent since then ive had some success with them so has Aaron and now Paul Knight is on the verge. Pat bent an insane bastard people again said it can not be done or duplicated Mike Hadland[booyah] has bent them in all 3 styles Aaron and Ben have bent them and i have had abit of success with the shorter stuff. Pat bent a KOAB poundage is still not common knowledge since then Eric,Aaron,Ben,Booyah etc have taken them down. Big g5 bolts Aaron,Jeremiah and others are killing them with more than an inch cut off. Steel,bolts,nails etc are just stepping stones to the next bigger/harder/shorter piece we each have alot more left in us. "NO LIMITS GUYS" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Well said Gazza!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justiceislost1988 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 GAZZA !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim71 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I will say I think Zass may very well have been the best steel bender in history. However, the specs on steel back then were very different than they are now. Bending a 5/8 square bar only 5 inches long of ANY kind of steel or iron of any grade would be awesome but todays stuff would just be beyond comprehension. I don't believe in placing absolute limits but I don't believe in being a pigeon either. I have this question about these older bending feats that are just crazy like that. How come the same individual's lifting records were indeed impressive but nothing like the bending feats? I mean with their unlimited potential, how come they didn't one arm bent press 1300 lbs? I know Zass lifted a 500 lb steel girder in his teeth but why not a 2000 lb steel girder? That would be more in line with his super-human bending. Mind over matter. I believe in progressing and believe not to limit one's self, but I also believe in knowing exactly what they were doing and how they were doing it and how the circumstances compared. Think of it like this. A 5/8 square bar 5 inches long would be as tough or tougher than a 3/4 inch round bar about 7 inches long I'd say. Okay now, that 3/4 inch bar at 7 inches would probably be equal to a 7/8 inch bar that was maybe 11 to 13 inches I'd guess. Probably more towards the 11 inch I'd say. Get the picture of this magnitude of bend? I truly want to believe something like that is possible but that's just darn hard to swallow. I'm a fan of Zass and part of me truly wants to believe that but I know how times were back then too. Let me just ask, do you guys believe that Zass bent a bar 5/8 square by 5 inches that was comparible to today's steel? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuc Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) Why wouldn't his iron just be a lot softer/weaker than today's hrs? Then it would be a little more plausible. I don't know where hardware stores are getting their iron, but I don't think it's China, since that's not really a place where they make strong and durable. I really don't have the knowledge, but is it possible to make really weak steel? What about alluminium, could he have used that? It would still be insane of course! Edited June 18, 2008 by luuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wscorpion Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) No way did he bent 5/8 Square at 5". Anyone saying otherwise should try it himself first with whatever tools you see fit. I'm sure you will realize that even with tools it's going to be one hell of a fight. Back then they lived on telling inhuman feats that they have mastered, simply to attract audience, this is one of them! I'm sure all of you want to believe it's possible, and maybe in a few thousand years (if the human race evolves more in that way) those things might be possible, but for now, no way! Keep in mind that we have the best benders in the world here on the board, and none of them even come close to such a bend. We now know much more about training, leverage, rest, etc then they did in 1926........ Edited June 18, 2008 by White Scorpion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timiacobucci Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Gazza I agree with what you said very much, I appreciate you directly responding about the yield strengths and such. I am not hung up on them and I never meant to cause anyone else to get that way either but I just like to have a better idea of what is going on, that's all it really is. And obviously you have gone through a similar phase with the press and charts and all so you know where I am coming from. You are right, at the end of the day you are strong enough or not and getting psyched out by numbers doesn't help anything. But for powerlifting or O lifting or most other pure strength sports there are specific measures. Everyone knows what deadlifting 1000lbs means relative to what they can lift. This is not common knowledge for steel. The grade 5 3/8" bolt you bent is abosultely insane when you look at the strength of that steel at that size. As you said the bend radius is very crucial and I was planning to go into that more specifically I just need to find a good way to illustrate and describe the math and theory I have come up with. Again I'm not trying to set limits on anyone, more just show the magnitude of what is being done now and to point out a clear progression into the future. I think making the jumps in a36 on the braced stuff is giving people a false impression of the much greater strength of the stainless and hardened bolt alloys. Now you guys probably aren't going to like this but Iron is actually very very soft compared to steel. There are many different cast alloys which grealty increase it's strength but the base yeild of iron is only like 11-15 kpsi. On the low end that is not even 1/3 the strength of the weakest a36 grade hrs we are using now. So comparing a 5/8" square peice of relatively uknown cast iron/steel to a modern 3/4" a36 hrs is a very very high range estimate. It could be as low as a 7/16" round a36 hrs if it is mostly iron. And there are certainly people I think that could pull that bend off now. Zass was for real and there was not the competition and range of bending stock back then, he very well may have moped the floor with us as Gazza points out, but it is very hard to speculate about this because the stock he was bending was so very different from ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 No way did he bent 5/8 Square at 5".Anyone saying otherwise should try it himself first with whatever tools you see fit. I'm sure you will realize that even with tools it's going to be one hell of a fight. Back then they lived on telling inhuman feats that they have mastered, simply to attract audience, this is one of them! I'm sure all of you want to believe it's possible, and maybe in a few thousand years (if the human race evolves more in that way) those things might be possible, but for now, no way! Keep in mind that we have the best benders in the world here on the board, and none of them even come close to such a bend. We now know much more about training, leverage, rest, etc then they did in 1926........ Mark i personally dont think anyone could teach Zass about Isometrics or bending hes probably forgotten more than we will ever know. Also these men worked for a living useing there bodies more than we do now we have become westernised and lazy compared to people in his day also were do you think all these bending techniques and training routines come from i will tell you from the old timers like Zass,Goerner,Apollon,Saxon etc they have probably done it all and then some and as for nutrition i bet they ate better food than we do as well not full or hormones and other chemical shite but its just my 2 cents Another thing who here has a better MINDSET than the ATOM no one i know of we still have much to learn me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timiacobucci Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Another thing who here has a better MINDSET than the ATOM no one i know of we still have much to learn me thinks. For real, I have never once been able to look at any nail and honestly convince myself that I could bite it in half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justiceislost1988 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Another thing who here has a better MINDSET than the ATOM no one i know of we still have much to learn me thinks. For real, I have never once been able to look at any nail and honestly convince myself that I could bite it in half. i agree with that one without a doubt and i think everybody does and as for that biting i have been preeetty hungry at some points and i don't think i could ever have done that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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