Ironmind Some'r Mmmagic

[jad]

Anyone else read this crap? Strossen continues to prove that he has little to no knowledge of actually closing grippers. I wonder if one of the purists is spoonfeeding him this trash or if he actually comes up with it on his own. My personal favorite would have to be the line " ...plan to run through the full stroke on your gripper after you get it comfortably seated in your hand". Comfortable for what...pinch gripping it shut like the laughable demo pics? I like IM and would recommend them to anybody but I think Strossen needs to stick to running the company instead of doling out gripper advice, at least until he actually knows what the heck he's talking about.

[Bearcat 74]

Josh, what are you talking about, is it a new book or something, or am I just too dense to find it?

[Sean Dockery]

New catalog, newest issue of Miilo? I get neither anymore.

[Wes]

It's the new catalog. Basically shows a hand holding the gripper with the palm handle near the the thumb like everyone does the first time they shut a gripper

[PowerHouse]

I believe its the summer catalog. I got mine a couple of days ago in the mail. When I read it I just started laughing, anyways here is what it all said if ya haven't seen it. First paragraph just seemed a little to smartass for me but I can care less.

How Far Apart?

As fas as style goes, for your starting position, we recommend

a deep set (starting with a gap of one inch or less

between the handles) if you would like to pretend you are

stronger than you really are, want to limit your overall grip

strength, and want to set yourself up for injuries.

Otherwise, if you're serious about grip strength, plan to run

through the full stroke on your gripper after you get it comfortably

seated in your hand. For certification on the No. 3 or No. 4 COC,

you must be able to slide the end of a creadit card between the handles for a

legal start... this is a gap of about two inches.

[Wes]

I actually agree with it somewhat. You WILL limit your overall grip strength and increase the risk for injuries by doing too much deep set work (key here.. too much). Not sure about the "pretending" part, but other than that it pretty much rings true

Edited June 29, 2007 by Wes

[PowerHouse]

They(MMS and CCS) both have there advantages/disadvantages. To limit yourself to just one particular style is only cheating yourself. I know I wouldn't have gotten to where I am now on grippers if I'd only done CCS work.

All in all it really isn't important what anybody says, just keep training and getting stronger.

[ObsceneJester]

Yes even tho I'm not a 'expert' in closing big grippers but I will not take advice (if that is actually Strossen) about closing big grippers until I see his name under that certified list. That's like getting health advice from a morbidly obese man. Tho each to there own.

[jad]

I actually agree with it somewhat. You WILL limit your overall grip strength and increase the risk for injuries by doing too much deep set work (key here.. too much). Not sure about the "pretending" part, but other than that it pretty much rings true

The only thing you limit with MMS work is your no-set or CCS strength. And let's not forget, the bigger your hands, the less of an open-hand/sweep workout you get w/ the TNS/CCS stuff. The risk for injury is far greater trying to no-set or CCS grippers that are too wide for your hand, especially if you're pinch closing them like those silly demo pics.

Edited June 29, 2007 by jad

[Wes]

I actually agree with it somewhat. You WILL limit your overall grip strength and increase the risk for injuries by doing too much deep set work (key here.. too much). Not sure about the "pretending" part, but other than that it pretty much rings true

The only thing you limit with MMS work is your no-set or CCS strength. And let's not forget, the bigger your hands, the less of an open-hand/sweep workout you get w/ the TNS/CCS stuff. The risk for injury is far greater trying to no-set or CCS grippers that are too wide for your hand, especially if you're pinch closing them like those silly demo pics.

I like to think of MMS work as a partial movement, like a bench press lockout or a rack pull. Does it help your regular bench press and deadlift? Hell yeah it does. Do you want to do a bench program that consists mainly of lockouts? No. Working the full range is needed for for improvement and overall strength. Back when the most I could do was a paralell set #3 close, honestly, my hands didn't "feel" that much stronger than when I started. However when I started working in a lot more full range movements like CCS, TNS and wide sets my hands "felt" 10x stronger doing every day things. Picking up big sections of metal pipe, paving blocks, moving piles of lumber, yard work all felt much easier on the grip than when I trained only paralell grippers. I agree with your point about injury. However I think that someone is much more likely to injure themselves in the long run by completely focusing on deep set grippers than from trying to no set a gripper too large for their hand. This is why Warren Tetting and Robert Barbaran make grippers that are narrower than the standard Ironmind 3''. Now am I saying don't do paralell grippers? No, but I think that wide sets or lifting with thick handles should be as important in training as the paralell grippers. Now, with that incredibly long winded statement, I will advise you that all this is just based on what happened to me. Too much deep setting grippers screwed up my knuckle and limited my "real" strength. You might get injured from the same thing tommorrow. You may never get injured. This is just "JMHO"

[Bob Lipinski]

My experience is a little different. When I trained with almost all MMS stuff, I was strong all around, including TNS and CC set. Training exclusively TNS made me worse. Of course, I train plenty of other grip stuff, so I am not neglecting more open hand stuff.

The width of the ironmind grippers really mess me up. Instead of the rack lockout analogy, I liken it to trying to squat or bench press with the racks set too high. Sure, if I get on my tiptoes or wiggle just right I can get the bar out of the rack, but there is no way to get as good a workout as you could with a decent starting position.

[CoC#3]

I have found that when i train mainly deep set stuff, my CCS and TNS ability increase aswell. When i train just CCS and TNS my deep set ability goes down. These days i train all sets, usually deep set work first then a few sets of TNS work to finish with. For TNS work i like to use a narrow gripper, for max effort stuff i do attempts TNS at the RB330N and for higher reps stuff an RB240C. The HGs are also good for TNS work. I haven't had much benefit strength wise for doing TNS work with wider grippers, because this is all down to hand poisitioning IMO and not full range crushing ability.

[superfeemiman]

If I do too much no sets I feel a clicking in the back of hand. I feel the risk for injury is much greater for me if I use a no set rather than a parallel or CCS set because I have a lot less control over it.

[GarytheDino]

Anyone else read this crap? Strossen continues to prove that he has little to no knowledge of actually closing grippers. I wonder if one of the purists is spoonfeeding him this trash or if he actually comes up with it on his own. My personal favorite would have to be the line " ...plan to run through the full stroke on your gripper after you get it comfortably seated in your hand". Comfortable for what...pinch gripping it shut like the laughable demo pics? I like IM and would recommend them to anybody but I think Strossen needs to stick to running the company instead of doling out gripper advice, at least until he actually knows what the heck he's talking about.

That's just another example of an armchair expert. I wouldn't get to excited about the advice. How we chose to train is no ones business but our own.

Edited July 2, 2007 by GarytheDino

[Alawadhi]

I am only afraid that a new cert will come and it will be this way plus out of the package CCS. THAT will be hard!

Edited July 2, 2007 by Alawadhi

[Mikael]

Stupid question, but what is MMS (Mash Monster Set?) Is it to set it to Parallel?

Edited July 2, 2007 by Mikael

[Bill Piche]

Stupid question, but what is MMS (Mash Monster Set?) Is it to set it to Parallel?

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=12817

[Jonathan McMillan]

The width of the ironmind grippers really mess me up. Instead of the rack lockout analogy, I liken it to trying to squat or bench press with the racks set too high. Sure, if I get on my tiptoes or wiggle just right I can get the bar out of the rack, but there is no way to get as good a workout as you could with a decent starting position.

Really like this analogy Bob!!!!

Jon@han

[superfeemiman]

I don't really like the rack-out analogy. A 5 foot tall guy bench pressing moves the bar a lot less than a 6'6'' tall guy, compare that to a no set for a 7'' handed guy and a 8.5 or 9'' handed guy, where they both have to move it the same amount regardless of bodytype. This is of course just IMO though.

[AP]

I don't really like the rack-out analogy. A 5 foot tall guy bench pressing moves the bar a lot less than a 6'6'' tall guy

Hey, that's a cheap shot! Bob's easily over 5 feet tall

I'm not sure but I think we've had this set vs no-set discussion before...

[Bob Lipinski]

Funny Jeff!

Really though, what I am talking about is ROM of the finger joints. The gripper may be a fixed distance, but people will have different ROM for longer for different size fingers.

There are two ways for small handed guys to close a wide gripper- Either do some half ass pinch with it, or spend forever jiggling the thing back and forth to get a decent position and "set" it with one hand. Neither really have much to do with testing crush strength.

[dimmers]

Totally agree with you! well put.

Funny Jeff!

Really though, what I am talking about is ROM of the finger joints. The gripper may be a fixed distance, but people will have different ROM for longer for different size fingers.

There are two ways for small handed guys to close a wide gripper- Either do some half ass pinch with it, or spend forever jiggling the thing back and forth to get a decent position and "set" it with one hand. Neither really have much to do with testing crush strength.

[Bill Piche]

What struck me when I got it (today) was the flash lights in there????

[t-wehner]

aghhhh, the flashlights. what in the world are the flashlights doing in the ironmind catalog should be the question.

mms, ns, tns, ccs- they all have their purpose, and everyone has their own methods of getting stronger. everyone on the board has said or heard it at sometime or another- "do what works best for you." that is what is great about this niche of the strength world- its a small community, we do weird exercises for the hands, and get weird looks when we either talk about or demonstrate grip strength to anybody.

he has his opinions, you have yours, i have mine, but at least we all strive for the same thing, strong hands and stronger bodies.

but flashlights? oh well.

take care, and good lifting

[jad]

What struck me when I got it (today) was the flash lights in there????

Yeah, I know.... Are those even high-end flashlights (law enforcement/military) or just way overpriced?