Increased Hand Strength Is Bad?

[austinslater]

I tend to think that the people tested probably used thier hands alot during thier working careers in a repitive type manner which led to problems and the extra hand strength was just a by product. Also this probably led to imbalances as well. Might be an indicator that doing too much of a certain exercise might cause problems though. John Wood might be on to something . . .

http://www.docguide.com/dg.nsf/PrintPrint/...525670C0051AB59

What do you guys think?

[JasonL]

Any arthritis has nothing to do with genetics or training. Has to do with nutrition. Keep eating crap all ones life and its going to catch up with you. Some people it comes sooner than others. Crap like that pisses me off.

[Scott Styles]

I would be inclined to believe that increased hand strength in laborers could correlate with osteoarthritis. If you have a job that is physically demanding on the hands, there are going to be days when they hurt and you still have to use them. After 20 years of that, they're going to be damaged. Especially if, as Jason pointed out, the worker's diet is sub-par and the body does not have the tools needed to repair itself.

I think the gripster that trains hard, but backs off when there is joint pain, will probably be ok. The body is capable of repairing most parts, given the appropriate tools and time.

Just like any other strength sport, however, there are going to be people that work through the pain. In some cases, these are going to be the ones that end up the strongest. Just take a look at the competitors in the Champions of Champions contest - most of them were lifting injured. On the other hand, I think there will be many others that take this approach and end up weak and injured.

Unfortunately, for individuals new to grip, many will look at those at the top of the field and emulate them. Often without understanding the long term risks the top level athlete has accepted and is working with.

[WildGorillaMan]

Sad to say, this is typical of the crap we are spoon fed by the media every day to keep us weak, frightened, and insecure.

Don't forget, a lot of doctors will tell you that lifting weights is bad for you.

[Starkmann]

I gotta say that this makes me think of all the guys I have seen who don't do squats because "it'll hurt their knees". All the research shows that to be the opposite of what is true. In fact, but taking the hipsled(legpress) route the place more sheer pressure across their knees than in a properly done squat.

So which is worse , being one of the millions of Americans who get carpel tunnel each year or hitting a few reps on a gripper? Guess which one , even if the osteoporosis theory is true, will leave you with more pain in a lifetime.

Exit soapbox right

[Alawadhi]

If that was so, then people from the past had arthritis. My grandfather said that his dad worked his hands very much in his early life. and now he in over 100 years old and I see nothing happened to him.

[jklove41]

If that was so, then people from the past had arthritis. My grandfather said that his dad worked his hands very much in his early life. and now he in over 100 years old and I see nothing happened to him.

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I had mild arthritis in my hands before I began grip training about 3 years ago. I no longer have it and I attribute the recovery to grip training.

Ken

[rjkd12]

Muscular contraction and its effect on the joints is extremely complex. Some types of force are beneficial, and some are potentially harmful."

Osteoarthritis is the most common form of arthritis and is caused by the wearing away of joint cartilage.

This was from the article. People should stop thinking that science is bad and that there are all these studies that are meant to make people weak and not move. This study didn't have anything to do with grip training at all. Anybody who reads this and thinks that training your grip will give you arthritis is reading too much into it, that is your conclusion and not the studies.

All this says is that hand strength may be a good marker for osteoarthritis. MOST people with strong hands are laborers who have used their hands all their life. Those people are very good candidates for arthritis from constantly moving their joints and slowly wearing away at the cartilage. That is all. Even that last part is MY conclusion and not the studies. People need to be careful when they interpret studies into their real life.

Plus for those who talk about how this is false or other things are wrong. They DID test 453 men, and grip strength DID corrilate will with osteoarthritis. This is not debateable. If you want to discuss if training grip is good or bad, feel free. That is what is debateable. I kinda gave my opinion above, I think its benificial.

[unseenbeat]

I would be inclined to believe that increased hand strength in laborers could correlate with osteoarthritis.  If you have a job that is physically demanding on the hands, there are going to be days when they hurt and you still have to use them.  After 20 years of that, they're going to be damaged.  Especially if, as Jason pointed out, the worker's diet is sub-par and the body does not have the tools needed to repair itself.

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I think that would be the main group tested that showed higher grip strength, I think this makes more sense than muscular contractions themselves being harmful.

[mindovermatter]

Any arthritis has nothing to do with genetics or training. Has to do with nutrition. Keep eating crap all ones life and its going to catch up with you. Some people it comes sooner than others. Crap like that pisses me off.

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R.A.(Rheumatoid Arthritis) is a type of arthritis that can be passed down hereditary, or genetically. Arthritis has nothing to do with what you eat, as many know it is a inflammation of the joints with sad to say, no cure. They think it may be from viral infections from childhood. No, in my opinion i don't think any sort of hand training can cause it. I didn't write this post to make anyone seem stupid it's just my whole family has arthritis and i know a thing or two.

Edited November 26, 2005 by mindovermatter

[JasonL]

They think it may be from viral infections from childhood.

Who is "They" Doctors? Goverment? Media? if you believe anyone of them, then its the wrong choice. Remember Sickness is an illness that the "They" want you to be sick, so they can come rich.

Believe it or no, its up to you. Not going to argue about it. Just open your mind a little bit more thats all. ))))

[Wayne]

If that was so, then people from the past had arthritis. My grandfather said that his dad worked his hands very much in his early life. and now he in over 100 years old and I see nothing happened to him.

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I had mild arthritis in my hands before I began grip training about 3 years ago. I no longer have it and I attribute the recovery to grip training.

Ken

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a few years ago i broke my wrist, split the scaphoid bone right down the middle. it hurt for a while but i learned to deal with it and i just went on with a broken wrist for over a year not even knowing it was broken. because i neglected it i began to develop arthritis in my wrist and by the time i had a doctor look at it and do x-rays, he told me if i'd waited any longer i may have been risking having a paralyzed hand by the time i was in my late 20's. i had surgery on my wrist which was a success but i had tremendous motion loss in the wrist which would never return and the doctor told me i would have arthritis pain my whole life and nothing would stop that. since beginning grip training my motion in my wrist has returned completely and my pain has vanished. my doctor wants to know what i'm taking .

[Big Steve]

Hand abuse will lead to arthritis, not working it hard for a life time. What I have found out is when a lot of people retire and stop using the hands and just sitting, around picking their noses and butts, it all goes bad. They give up! Hands are for life. You listen to junk long enough, you believe junk. Also jobs these days ain't to hard on the hands and any thing that deals with the use of the hands on the outside of a job hurts them. Then a Dr. comes up with a name for the pain and makes millions. People like to take pills instead of taken action to heal themselves. These should open a big door for some of us to go though to educate people who want help in strengthen their hands.

[Starkmann]

Anybody who reads this and thinks that training your grip will give you arthritis is reading too much into it, that is your conclusion and not the studies.

I have to disagree with you here. This study, like many, measures one thing and draws a conclusion from it. This study indicates that increased hand strength leads to arthritis, it says as much in the title.

No, it is not about grip training but it is about the result of grip training. People are not going too far to relate this to grip training. This is no different that people thinking that eating less will make them lose weight because, because when you look a starving people, the weigh less. Despite the fact that these people are living an entirely different life. No one is examining the process but they are making conclusions based on a perceived cause and effect.

I'm not saying science is bad, I rather like it. Unfortunately this is how science is practiced. There are reasons but I won't go in them here and now.

[Kurt Lane]

Arthritis has to do with all the factors mentioned to some degree. Genetics and food definatly play a role as with anything, but hand abuse and imbalances and basic wear and tear from poor movments and constant workloads have the greatest affect.

BTW there are many great drugs for athritis, and not just drugs to mask the pain but help rebuild joints ex. i guess you cant call it a complete cure but it definatly helps and some people have got full releif. I belive Equine a popular drug used on race horses is being used by a number of humans with AMAZING results.

I think ALOT more research needs to be done before making such iron clad remarks about arthritis.

Side Note: Equine is illegal for human use I belive, im not promoting it at all just stating the facts ive come across. Also if your gonig to research it dont get it confused with equine encephalomyelitis a mosquito-borne zoonotic infection.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Kurt Lane

[Kurt Lane]

As far as building hand strength I tend to think it has nothing to do with arthritis. Big steve made a good post on the subject, theres a right way to work your hands and a wrong way that can hurt them. Its the same with overall weight lifting. Weightlifting can be benificial in helping a person heal with existing injuries and get stronger, or hurt them worse. Yourbody may be getting stronger but you may be hurting your joints, and you may be getting stronger but you may be helping your joints. Id be willing to put money down that alot of people here that dont know it have slight degenerative disk/joint disorder in there spines due to weightlifting, of course some people have it from other reasons but trust me if you ever get a MRI check it out and ask.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Kurt Lane

[rjkd12]

Anybody who reads this and thinks that training your grip will give you arthritis is reading too much into it, that is your conclusion and not the studies.

I have to disagree with you here. This study, like many, measures one thing and draws a conclusion from it. This study indicates that increased hand strength leads to arthritis, it says as much in the title.

No, it is not about grip training but it is about the result of grip training. People are not going too far to relate this to grip training. This is no different that people thinking that eating less will make them lose weight because, because when you look a starving people, the weigh less. Despite the fact that these people are living an entirely different life. No one is examining the process but they are making conclusions based on a perceived cause and effect.

I'm not saying science is bad, I rather like it. Unfortunately this is how science is practiced. There are reasons but I won't go in them here and now.

←

The title was given by the newspaper article that posted the study and not from the scientists themselves. We have a newspaper article that quotes information given from a scientific experiment. So the title of "Increased hand strength leads to arthritis" was the opinion of the newspaper.

The title of the actual experiment was "Grip strength and the risk of developing radiographic hand osteoarthritis: results from the Framingham Study." So they are just corrilating the two. Not saying which caused which, or if there is a third overlooked variable.

They do have another study called "Higher grip strength increases the risk of incident radiographic osteoarthritis in proximal hand joints." By the same authors. I"ll look into it later, but I'm about to go out for the night. I"ll see if I can get the whole paper. The conclusion was this though, "The conclusion is that increased grip strength, which is the major force of loading across proximal hand joints, increases the risk of OA in those joints."

So maybe having stronger hands does increase the incidence of osteoarthritis?

[Number Ten Ox]

"According to Chaisson, this is the first study to examine the relationship of osteoarthritis and grip strength in different types of hand joints. "

A show of hands. Who is taking tomorrow off?

Uh huh.

I am writing a paper on modalities used in diagnosing finger injuries to rock climbers for class. Scary stuff. Talks all about the evils of the "campus board."

Construction of my campus board starts Dec. 15th...

[bdckr]

Here's the actual abstract of the original article.

Correlation, not causality.

[JKoch]

Who is "They"  Doctors? Goverment? Media? if you believe anyone of them, then its the wrong choice. Remember Sickness is an illness that the "They" want you to be sick, so they can come rich.

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Yeah, I get all of my medical advice from random guys on the internet instead of trusting those greedy doctors!

[milkbone]

My brother in law jokes with me sometimes that I'm going to have CTS and sore hands for the rest of my life from grippers, bending nails, etc. He and my sister both have had surgery for CTS. My thinking is, they did not train grip and they have had joint problems. Why would I want to do what they're doing when their "hands off" approach has not made them any better off? I will keep training grip for as long as I can or until it is not fun any more. I refuse to be a mindless sheep that follows the rest of the heard when the very lifestyle they recommend (inactivity) has caused them harm IMO.

[Left Side]

Well said milkbone.

[Darco]

They think it may be from viral infections from childhood.

Who is "They"  Doctors? Goverment? Media? if you believe anyone of them, then its the wrong choice. Remember Sickness is an illness that the "They" want you to be sick, so they can come rich.

Believe it or no, its up to you. Not going to argue about it.  Just open your mind a little bit more thats all. ))))

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What do they have to gain in a country where THEY pay for your healthcare ?

[ProfessorKomodo]

For a while now, I have been talking to a few guys I know that are over the age of fifty and they are always telling me their stories of training as young men thirty or forty years ago and that everything was much different than in this modern day fitness world.

But they mainly say that they could not ever again repeat those feats of strength because their hands are "fried", "dead" "gone". Basically, racked with arthritis

I know for a fact that these men stopped strength training after establishing their careers and family so I am led to believe that their discontinuation of training and letting their hands become stagnant, as so many adults do these days, had led to arthritis , and more so because they were so active with their hands when they were younger. Jut my Speculation.

Edited November 29, 2005 by ProfessorKomodo

[wolffish1]

The men with the increased grip strength who used them everyday also really abuse their hands. Take for instance, driving a nail with a hammer for 20 years. All of the shock gets distributed through your hands. I won't say that construction workers don't have strong hands from their work, but their jobs aren't about worrying about the impact- just getting the nail in. Over the years that cumulative abuse adds up.

Look at all people who work out.

How many use a metronome to time repetitions or move slowly to ensure safety.

Most just count reps like it means something. A repetition without a time frame is meaningless. How about time under tension load relating to fiber type. If you move quickly and exercise muscles ballistically, your joints will be abused just like the hands of a construction worker and over the years, you will have the same problems. The only difference is that the construction worker gets paid to do that.

If you move weight in a controlled manner and strategically time and log each rep and workout, you will have less of a chance of injury due to the fact that hopefully one is logical enough to extrapolate what is in the workout log to lessen pain or make gains- whatever the case may be. Genetics aside of course.

I would bet that different trades would have different results regarding hand problems and strength.

Construction workers-- bang and smash things to build and demolish. Usually done all of the time. Heavy impact going through the hands. High impact- high intensity.

Plumbers- bang and smash sporadically and mostly use wrenches and slower controlled movements to achieve tight unions, joints, fittings etc. Strong hands with less cumulative impact over the years as compared to a construction worker. Steady state static gripping for pulling on wrenches and pliers etc. Low impact- higher intensity.

Diet, sleep and basic hydration also have a cumulative impact on joint health as well. Just think about constant cups of coffee all day long dehydrating your joints. Over the years, sparsely lubricated joints will wear faster.