Hand Size

[climber511]

Two things are constantly being debated as to creating divisions for grip strength - body weight and hand size. Jedd and others are hand size guys and I'm a weight class guy. Both have validity of course. My problem with hand size is that the way we currently measure it - it really doesn't have much of anything to do with grip performance and doesn't include the thumb at all in the measurement process - which makes it worthless in my opinion. Discussion.

[jad]

Handsize all the way for me. I think weight classes are just an indirect way of filtering it. Do you lose strength if you drop weight? Sure. But Jedd could cut to 94kg and you still won't touch him on a contest with CCS grippers, blobs by the face and Inch dbs in the medley, and axle.

[cemery]

What would be a more aplicable way to measure the hand ? From thumb tip to middle finger tip.

[Jeff Parker]

I'm for weight classes as well. With a weight class the competitior can choose to diet down and get in a lower weight class, or bulk up and compete at the heavier weight class. Hand size sticks a guy with a class and he can't do anything about it.

If it was hand size, I also agree that the current measurement of hands is flawed as it does not take into account thumb position or length, or finger length as compared to palm length.

I have 8" hands with my palm length being relativley long and my finger length relativly short. Although this is a disadvantage for thick bar, it is a substantial advantage for grippers as my large palm area gives me a large "sweet spot" to position the grippers.

I would think a better measuring device for hand size would be a competitor wrapping their hand around a thick bar and measuring how far they reach. Its not perfect, but as I stated before, I don't think hand size is perfect. My analogy to the hand size debate would be for a bench competition to measure length of stroke for classes instead of bodyweight.

Anyway you look at it, its not perfect and no sport ever will be, genetics will always play a big role. Choose a sport you have fun with and go for it. You might not be the best at it, but if you want to be the best at something and your hands are 7", you should pick a new sport other than grip, or just be happy with getting better at it for personal gains. I have competed in 8 grip competitions and never competed to win, always to have fun and beat my own records. If the only reason someone would compete in grip is because they have a chance at winning, frankly we don't need you in grip as that is a poor sport. No one is making money or getting sponserships, its a sport and I take it seriously, but it's mainly a HOBBY. I make money at my job, then spend free time enjoying grip.

I'm 6'5" and would not try out for gymnastics and insist that they move the parallel bars up higher off the ground so my feet won't hit the ground. I'm not going to go into bobsledding and insist they make all the bobsleds bigger because it's not fair that I can't get crouched down in mine all the way or as fast as a shorter guy.

Sorry about the long rant, hopefully it helps a little.

[Mikael Siversson]

This debate can be settled once and for all if a few of the big guys dropped down to 82.5k and cleaned it out. It is a healthier option than for lighter guys to switch to a diet of french fries and ice cream.

[Cannon]

What would be a more aplicable way to measure the hand ? From thumb tip to middle finger tip.

But then you get into flexiblity of the thumb joint, or even the athlete's motivation to stretch their hand for the measurement or not.

Some people have considered the hand span measurement. From the tip of the thumb across the hand to the pinkie. There is still an element of flexibility and willingness to stretch for the measurement.

The traditional measurement from the wrist has some fudge as well. For example, the "first crease" in my wrist looks like a bell curve with the hump going towards my middle finger. Probably cuts down the measurement by almost 1/4". But technically that is probably the proper measurement. Heck, the measurement changes by more than 1/8" based on the last direction my middle finger was squished! I've been typing a lot today and the tip of my finger was relatively flat. I squished it from the sides to round it again. Instantly 1/8" longer.

Just some observations only that hand size seems like a more subjective measurement than body weight which is just standing on a scale.

Josh makes a good point for hand size. But Chris' comments about the usefulness of the hand size measurement are valid as well.

[IROC-Z]

I'm all for weight classes. Like Jeff was saying, that way the competitor has some control over what class they compete in.

I enjoy competing in several Bench Press contests each winter, and every year I hear the same old argument that goes something like this: "if my arms weren't so darn long, I'd be Benching at least 50# more". It's an argument that's gone on forever, but I'll guarantee you that we will never see classes determined by arm length. It's always going to be divided up by weight class. I look at Gripsport the same way.

Sorry for the goofy explanation.

[jad]

I'm predicting the next big debate will be what weight class (82.5k vs. 94kg vs. <200/>200) .

[Bill Piche]

"It is a healthier option than for lighter guys to switch to a diet of french fries and ice cream. "

HAH! Good one.

I really think weight classes are more appropriate. Just like in weightlifting, powerlifting, etc. I don't really think you can do anything with hand size and really doesn't make sense. Take powerlifting. We can start measuring arm lengths and torso lengths for the deadlift, and then upper thigh length too for squats. Physical makeups of the person that make up the bodyweight is what it is.

If your genetics suck, get over it and join the club. Everyone has genetics that suck in one aspect or another in their body!

[pdfk20]

Weight classes make sense to me, I mean I'll never be able to like one hand deadlift or axle deadlift or pinch the amounts of the bigger guys, so unless i gain loads of muscle mass which would put me well above my current weight I wont be able to compete with the big guys.

[tukkergrip]

"It is a healthier option than for lighter guys to switch to a diet of french fries and ice cream. "

HAH! Good one.

I really think weight classes are more appropriate. Just like in weightlifting, powerlifting, etc. I don't really think you can do anything with hand size and really doesn't make sense. Take powerlifting. We can start measuring arm lengths and torso lengths for the deadlift, and then upper thigh length too for squats. Physical makeups of the person that make up the bodyweight is what it is.

If your genetics suck, get over it and join the club. Everyone has genetics that suck in one aspect or another in their body!

Well, IMO I think that weight classes don;t matter that much in grip like in powerlifting weightlifting unless you start added things like thickbar cleans and presses. Deadlifting the axle, v-bar and one hand deadlift are about the only things where more weight/muscle really matters, and even the lighter <200 pound guys can pull the DO axle more out of back/leg strength than their grip when trained properly... The divisions are all about fairness, and even in the weightclasses (wich will probably not have such a broad layout), you will see the 200< guys with big strong hands and axles and 200+ guys with big strong hands and axles...

[daniel reinard]

My opinion, hand size/shape have way more to do with grip performance than weight does. Having said that, I agree hand size is too hard to measure for a class and to stick someone in a class they can't change isn't a good answer. Also great examples for bench press and long arms. I knew in high school I'd never do great in the bench with my skinny 6'2" butt and +2" reach. No need for excuses, either have fun with what you're doing or find something the genetics can better agree with.

I'm for a lightweight open class but only one Elite class. You can indirectly sum up the hands with weight in a way. And Elite class should be just that, the best, even if they are gifted for grip.

[Ross Love]

The only reason I say Hand Size is because if we went by Body Weight then No one is ever going to beat Paul Knight or Andrew Durniat lol.. Unless you consider them to be Heavy Weights? Which at 230 - 240 is far from a Heavy Weight IMO.. So I guess then it would come down to what is your definition of the weight classes going to be?

[Jedd Johnson]

Handsize all the way for me. I think weight classes are just an indirect way of filtering it. Do you lose strength if you drop weight? Sure. But Jedd could cut to 94kg and you still won't touch him on a contest with CCS grippers, blobs by the face and Inch dbs in the medley, and axle.

Totally agreed. I cut from about 290 to 250 lbs from the end of 2007 to the end of 2008 and it had next to no effect on my Grip training.

[Jedd Johnson]

I also feel the current hand measurement is meaningless. If I remember correctly, didn't this come from the NFL, which was using it as a guide to show surface area for catching a football?

The measurement that would need to be used would have to be either thumb tip to middle finger or thumb tip to ring finger.

And then, I think the measurement would have to be gripping around a piece of PVC pipe. Several pipes would have to be used and the thickest one you can wrap your hand around would dictate your measurement. From there, we would have to decide where a cut-off would be to decide large vs. small.

How tough would it be to design a measuring device made out of several lengths of PVC pipe, each one slightly larger or smaller, perhaps from a roughly 1.5 up to 3-inch outside diameter? Actually, I guess it wouldn't have to be all connected, just all available to be tested, so it wouldn't be hard at all.

The only thing we'd have to watch for is that whether we would do a skin stretch or just go natural. I can see some people purposely not stretching as far as possible in order to get into the smaller class.

Maybe we could just spread the digits ourselves as measurement takers and make marks on a flat piece of paper...?

[OldGuy]

Thumb tip to middle finger tip is the longest measurement you can make of the hand, so perhaps this should be used. My own measurement is slighly longer than the span from little finger tip to thumb tip.

[acorn]

In my experience thumb tip to pinky has been the best indicator of hand size for wide pinch, thickbar, etc. It seems to directly correlate to skin surface area on the bar much better than wrist to finger tip IMHO.

- Aaron

[Mikael Siversson]

Now take that weight down to 180lbs, load up the 2HP with 119k and have a go at it. It will go nowhere.

Handsize all the way for me. I think weight classes are just an indirect way of filtering it. Do you lose strength if you drop weight? Sure. But Jedd could cut to 94kg and you still won't touch him on a contest with CCS grippers, blobs by the face and Inch dbs in the medley, and axle.

Totally agreed. I cut from about 290 to 250 lbs from the end of 2007 to the end of 2008 and it had next to no effect on my Grip training.

[Mikael Siversson]

I think we should have different classes in the pinch based on the chubbyness of the fingers. It is unfair that people with skinny fingers have to compete in the same class as people with a huge surface area of skin making contact with the plates. Some of my fingers are abnormally short so I would like to be compensated for that as well.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Mikael Siversson

[Mike Rinderle]

I think that novice, open, and elite are enough divisions. It's not like we have 50 guys showing up to a grip contest. It's a relatively small sport with a small subset that actually compete. If this changes, then you can start to add more divisions.

If we have to divide it up more, I would probably go with weight. Hand size is one thing that effects stuff, but so does angle of the thumb joint or whether you have straight thumbs or hitchhiker thumbs (the kind that bend backwards), or long fingers, or big palms, etc. I just think we are overthinking this. Just go compete and have fun. Short guys don't get a lower basket in hoops and tall guys with short arms don't get to pull from 6" boxes in a PL meet (dangit!).

Weight is a fairly good gauge of overall size, but it doesn't always correlate to hand size. If you wanted to keep it simple, and have a better correllation with hand size, I would go with height. Make it <5'11" & 5'11" and greater.

So, if we have to pick some division, I would go with height as that is a pretty good gauge of handsize. JMO. Then again, short guys have less travel distance to lockout so they have an advantage there

That's why I say, forget classes other than the 3 representing experience and accomplishment and just go compete hard and have fun.

[jad]

Now take that weight down to 180lbs, load up the 2HP with 119k and have a go at it. It will go nowhere.

Handsize all the way for me. I think weight classes are just an indirect way of filtering it. Do you lose strength if you drop weight? Sure. But Jedd could cut to 94kg and you still won't touch him on a contest with CCS grippers, blobs by the face and Inch dbs in the medley, and axle.

Totally agreed. I cut from about 290 to 250 lbs from the end of 2007 to the end of 2008 and it had next to no effect on my Grip training.

And if I did all the vitamin-S I could find and put on 100# of muscle I still couldn't lift a blob by the face nor would I have a prayer at the RT WR

[Mikael Siversson]

True but those events are not really suitable for grip strength competitions anyway, whereas a width adjustable pinch set up is (and e.g. grippers MMS).

Now take that weight down to 180lbs, load up the 2HP with 119k and have a go at it. It will go nowhere.

Handsize all the way for me. I think weight classes are just an indirect way of filtering it. Do you lose strength if you drop weight? Sure. But Jedd could cut to 94kg and you still won't touch him on a contest with CCS grippers, blobs by the face and Inch dbs in the medley, and axle.

Totally agreed. I cut from about 290 to 250 lbs from the end of 2007 to the end of 2008 and it had next to no effect on my Grip training.

And if I did all the vitamin-S I could find and put on 100# of muscle I still couldn't lift a blob by the face nor would I have a prayer at the RT WR

[macaz]

The contests have a mix of stuff that different hand sizes will have an advantage on. I have heard smaller hands have an advantage on hubbing. Huge hands and thick bars for sure go together and grippers I think it is just how strong you are. Two hand pinch I have no idea, I think you need strong thumbs for sure. I think it can even out to some degree.

Any how I don’t mind competing against a much bigger person and getting beat by a mile. I have been beat by a mile by a guy 60 pounds less than myself. It didn’t bother me. I found that very inspiring. This sport to me is a lot of fun.

[rico300zx]

Nothing is going to change, lets face it. We do this because we love it. I do it because I think its lots of fun and love the sport. I've always said the future top gripsters will be X strong men type or current strongman type with a couple anomalies thrown in the mix. Every one else just do your best. And have someone to look up to, that's all u can do.

Parris

[bencrush]

Good discussion here guys. I think the reason why weight class intrigues me so much is because it mixes things up and it's changeable. We can change our weight class. I would like to see some of the dominant heavier guys drop some weight and enter the lower weight classes just to see what it does to their overall performances. And the same for the dominant light guys - gain some weight and see how they do in the heavier classes. I don't want this to disprove or prove anyone's theories either. Just mix it up for the sake of more competition and a different challenge along the way.

For what it's worth - I have a pretty big hand span when measuring from pinky to thumb spread. I somehow haven't figured out how to make it work for me in terms of blob and any other pinch strength performance though...although I do know that it is a big advantage for me - at least whenever I can dial-in the world's slowest-to-develop pinch strength.