Cashman Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I was reading through this site, and this gripper - that I have never heard of - called the "Phantom 4". Has any body manage to nail this thing, and where would you rate it on the IM scale( 3.6, 3.7, etc)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Is the phantom 4 the original #3 Richard Sorin closed for his certification? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfeemiman Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Is the phantom 4 the original #3 Richard Sorin closed for his certification? Why's it called the Phantom 4? Is it a very hard #3 then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Dockery Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Jedd, The Phantom 4 was a one off gripper sent from Dr. Strossen to Richard Sorin. It is not the "Silver Crush #3" that Richard certed on. IIRC, Richard has only closed it once or twice. Obviously he would know better than I. I think Morton closed it, Heath got close, and I don't recall how Tommy did. http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtop...&hl=phantom Specs are a couple posts down in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I thought I was going out on a limb with that one. I squeezed something at Richard's office that was a very hard three and did NOT close it - can't remember if that was the phantom 4 or not. Jedd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gripper42004 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Mr. Strossen sent one to Brookfield,Sorin & Dr Ken.I closed it at GGC & then Lil Dave tried it & got it on his 2nd try. They were the very first #4 grippers.They just didnt have a name-# yet, I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersqueeze Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Tommy, Do you have any experience with Dr. Ken's and/or Brookfield's phantom 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gripper42004 Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Nope.The only one I have seen is from Richard Sorin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Kellersmann Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Mr. Strossen sent one to Brookfield,Sorin & Dr Ken.I closed it at GGC & then Lil Dave tried it & got it on his 2nd try. They were the very first #4 grippers.They just didnt have a name-# yet, I think? As far as I know they have the springsize of an Elite gripper (or the new 3.5). Some guys from the board have ordered Phantom 4 replicas from Warren Tetting. If I remember correctly, there is something written in the CoC book from Ironmind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObsceneJester Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 In the CoC book written by Ironmind it says that it is a hard #3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikulich Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 In the CoC book written by Ironmind it says that it is a hard #3 On what page? I couldn't find one mention of the "phatom 4" in the Ironmind book "Captains of Crush." Strossen does give information about the history of the silver crush grippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObsceneJester Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 ..page 20 and I quote from the Ironmind Book of Dr. Strossen "In 1992 Warren Tetting made us three grippers that had springs that were slightly thicker than we had been using in our No. 3 grippers. Of course, we sent one to Richard Sorin and one to John Brookfield, and even though we never received any corroboration for it, Richard told us that he closed it and we believed him. Nonetheless, the idea that this gripper is a so-called "Phantom Four" or "the toughest gripper ever closed" is utter balderdash--whether you look at the numbers involved in the specific elements of this gripper or just pick it up and squeeze it for yourself (which we and others have done), you will realize it for what it is: a gripper that is a little harder than a No. 3, nothing more and nothing less" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 "...utter balderdash." I just think that's funny writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikulich Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 ..page 20 and I quote from the Ironmind Book of Dr. Strossen"In 1992 Warren Tetting made us three grippers that had springs that were slightly thicker than we had been using in our No. 3 grippers. Of course, we sent one to Richard Sorin and one to John Brookfield, and even though we never received any corroboration for it, Richard told us that he closed it and we believed him. Nonetheless, the idea that this gripper is a so-called "Phantom Four" or "the toughest gripper ever closed" is utter balderdash--whether you look at the numbers involved in the specific elements of this gripper or just pick it up and squeeze it for yourself (which we and others have done), you will realize it for what it is: a gripper that is a little harder than a No. 3, nothing more and nothing less" Thanks a TON! I couldn't find that passage.I scanned a lot of pages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObsceneJester Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 It's confusing because Dr. Strossen says that it is a hard #3 and Richard says it is every bit a #4 A quote from Richard himself http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=20064&hl= The Phantom 4 had a .295" chromed spring and a hard to measure (due to a heavy bevel) aprox 3" handle spread. It was a prototype "joke" sent to me from Ironmind. It feels like a #4...the item of note beginning the initial sweep is smooth BUT, when the spring stacks at the last 1/4 inch it becomes unusually hard as compared to other grippers I have felt. Valid or not when tested randomly by an independent tester with 40 other grippers old and new each of the 11 times it was tested it registered higher than ANY other grippers including new #4s. With the mean (average) inch pound rating being 621 . I have closed it twice in my life both times with a witness using a full "credit card" width starting hand position. RS It is really confusing because on one hand Richard Sorin is saying it is harder then most if not all #4.. On the other hand Ironmind is saying it is nowhere near a #4 and it's just a hard #3.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hmm, and the plot thickens. I wonder why Richard never cert'd on the #4? It sounds like there are at least two times in his life when he could have dominated any regular #4 from Ironmind. Maybe he can comment if he happens upon this thread. It is really confusing because on one hand Richard Sorin is saying it is harder then most if not all #4.. On the other hand Ironmind is saying it is nowhere near a #4 and it's just a hard #3.. I would tend to believe Richard's account because he has the gripper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stCoC Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The phantom 4 came several years before the "#4" so at my peak there was nothing "official" harder to shut! I will tell you this... that Phantom gripper is alot harder than a three ...and thats coming directly from the guy that has seen it tested along with scores of other grippers, seen the best try it, personally in house tested it AND owned it for the past 16 years...I think I should know! I have seen it shut (with a deep set) by Big Dave and by no others ( along with other#4 cert guys trying it through the years. AS anything I have done or equipment I have used it is here ready for one and all to try so THEY then can speak with accuracy "first hand". How can people comment on things they don't have AND never will close...funny I think.RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The phantom 4 came several years before the "#4" so at my peak there was nothing "official" harder to shut! Makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stCoC Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Something to consider...At the time the new era IM. grippers came out 93'or so we tried a primitive but repeatably accurate test on my #3 silver crush gripper I certed on, a new #3 and the phantom 4. We carefully applied a selectorized guided weight stack down to the "tips" of each grippers handle to the point of the handles just touching closed. We aded light plates to the top of the stack to get accurate feedback. I recall the "new" #3 touching at 221lbs, the Silvercrush# touch at 248 (over 10% higher load to close) and the phantom 4 touching at a whopping 310!(30%)! Now you tell me....would a 310 bench press be "slightly harder" than a 221 bench press?lol An interesting fact when the SAME load was applied that shut the new era #3 to the Silvercrush #3 the handles were an inch (1") apart supporting the load. Also, the last little bit of the phantom 4 close took an added 60 lb. to get the last 1/4 inch gap shut on the handle.RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObsceneJester Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I definitely believe the phantom 4 is a lot harder from what I've heard from people trying it.. Like you said Richard, you have tried it and it's ready for anyone that is willingly to go up there and try it. Richard have you tried to talk to Randall about this? It seems like you two are good friends or atleast good acquiescences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stCoC Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The phantom 4 came in an era of change and I think in an honest attempt to get a more "uniform standard" in grippers and "uncloud" the waters of uncertainty the issue of the Silver crush grippers,phantom 4s and the like were "cloaked" in order for a new era to move ahead. All that being understood I still feel to fully appreciate any sport the richness begins with the history..good , bad OR unsettling. I am not saying one thing or another was bettter or worse just stating the facts and letting people decide. Anything built is not infallable and for 23 bucks could you ever expect "PERFECT" out of a mechanical device? Accept what "was" and "is" as just part of the road of grip history..............................RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashman Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 Something to consider...At the time the new era IM. grippers came out 93'or so we tried a primitive but repeatably accurate test on my #3 silver crush gripper I certed on, a new #3 and the phantom 4. We carefully applied a selectorized guided weight stack down to the "tips" of each grippers handle to the point of the handles just touching closed. We aded light plates to the top of the stack to get accurate feedback. I recall the "new" #3 touching at 221lbs, the Silvercrush# touch at 248 (over 10% higher load to close) and the phantom 4 touching at a whopping 310!(30%)! Now you tell me....would a 310 bench press be "slightly harder" than a 221 bench press?lol An interesting fact when the SAME load was applied that shut the new era #3 to the Silvercrush #3 the handles were an inch (1") apart supporting the load. Also, the last little bit of the phantom 4 close took an added 60 lb. to get the last 1/4 inch gap shut on the handle.RS That's probably the reason for the " hard #3" rating. Without feeling the last 1/4, that's all you would assume. I have looked over this site, yet, nobody has posted up a video of an attempt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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