jad Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 With all the talk in the GGC about V-bar and technique and Jedd's request to keep that thread on topic, could someone go over the V-bar technique here. I did a search and Mikael's video thread was all I found. All I could pick up was that he gripped the bar from the side and that he lifted it very quickly. Clay, Jedd, Jim Wylie, Mikael, and all the other V-bar experts could you guys go into some details about good technique on this lift? I read something about pressing your thumb tight into your fingers in the GGC thread, if someone could touch on that too. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 There is a good video clip from the 2004 Europeans showing an excellent 150k lift by Johan Albrektsson. Yes, one should press on the fingers with the thumb (sort of a side pressure by the thumb) as hard as possible. Experiment with the placement of the bar (i.e., either at the base of the fingers or a 1/4'' further down in the palm). Do the v-bar no more than once a week (the skin and the CNS need this to recover). Some pull it as high as possible, whereas others (like myself) try to lift it around 4'' high or so (high enough to clear the limit with a good margin but not too high so energy is waisted). Sometimes, however I lift it high too when the adrenaline is overflowing. Skin will come off from time to time. The best way to avoid this is to stop a few lbs below your limit and never try to pause at the highest point of the lift on max weights. Finally, you need to stretch your wrists for best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 my first time with v bar, i liked the lift. defenatley have to pratice to find the way thats best for you to hold it. i did notice, as mikael states, wrist git a pull so need so git them ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I forgot to add that it is obviously also important with strong wrists in general in order to limit the rotation of the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 Thanks guys. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 The unwanted rotation was the biggest problem, other than the sheer pain, I experienced on my first and only attempt at this lift with a fixed 1" steel bar (I trained on a 1 1/2" piece of PVC pipe which was attached via chain to a loading pin for one of the GGBash events). Strongmitts was demonstrating his technique to me at the time, and after he secured his grip he would then circle about 180 degrees around the bar, in the direction the bar would tend to rotate, and this prevented the rotation for him. Does anyone else use this trick, or a variation of it? Or in the end is it simply the forearm strength that prevents the rotation? I'll be making a homemade bar in a few days, and am open to any technique suggestions anyone cares to offer. But now that I think about it, if we're only going for few inches off the floor, this rotation shouldn't be a huge limiting factor??? Chris and I were going for full lockout with a pause at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 It seems like I've read about a hook grip and how it is no longer allowed. Could someone explain what this is so I can avoid doing it. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Chris and I were going for full lockout with a pause at the top. I did that at one LGC competition because the lift was so easy. When I released my grip, my palm had a nice pinking colour and the v-bar a nice cover of my skin. The rotation is mostly a problem at the early stages of v-bar training. Try to rotate it the other way with lighter weights, doing multiple reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 It seems like I've read about a hook grip and how it is no longer allowed. Could someone explain what this is so I can avoid doing it. Thanks If you lock your thumb with the other finger/s on top of it, you are using a thumb lock. Lock the other fingers with the thumb on the outside instead. Jim Wylie has pulled insane weights with a thumb lock (530+ lbs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Strongmitts was demonstrating his technique to me at the time, and after he secured his grip he would then circle about 180 degrees around the bar, in the direction the bar would tend to rotate, and this prevented the rotation for him. Does anyone else use this trick, or a variation of it? I have seen all sorts of styles. Try to copy Johan Albrektsson's style in the video-clip gallery, where he pulls 150k (330lbs) in the 2004 Europeans. Some, however, do better grabbing the bar from above in one quick motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 Thanks Mikael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I'm still not clear on the technique involved, but I can tell when my hand feels comfortable on the bar. Some of the guys were curling the hand and wrist around the bar real tight before lifting and I could see how that would work. If you can't squeeze it hard enough with the pinky and ring finger, it seems like it wants to turn out of your hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 ...my palm had a nice pinking colour.... Who said my English was good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcg Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 ...my palm had a nice pinking colour.... Who said my English was good? Thanks for the lifting descrition above (and the spelling)! //Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I appreciate the advice, Mikael. I made my v-bar today out of galvanized threaded pipe and a floor flange. It has an outside diameter of 1", is 18" tall, and I'll probably fit the bottome portion of it with some 2" PVC pipe to prevent my olympic plates from sliding around. I was quickly reminded just how infexible my wrists are. But the real problem was the pain in the fleshy part of my hand opposite the thumb pad, just above the heel of my palm. It felt as if it was on the brink of leaving the rest of my hand behind with anything over 200 pounds. I now hate this lift so much that I'm determined to get good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 and after he secured his grip he would then circle about 180 degrees around the bar, in the direction the bar would tend to rotate, and this prevented the rotation for him. Does anyone else use this trick, or a variation of it? Or in the end is it simply the forearm strength that prevents the rotation? Eric, Eli does this too. He pulls more weight than me and it works for him. He ends up catching the meat of his hand on the bar for friction, but I can't do that because it hurts too much. I just burry the bar into my finger joints, like one would hold a baseball bat. Then I cover my ring fionger with my thumb. I do not have the wrist flexibility in ulnar deviation to cover my middle or index fingers. -Jedd- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jariley Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Can someone post the link to that video mentioned above...can't seem to find it. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 (edited) Eric, Eli does this too. He pulls more weight than me and it works for him. He ends up catching the meat of his hand on the bar for friction, but I can't do that because it hurts too much. I just burry the bar into my finger joints, like one would hold a baseball bat. Then I cover my ring fionger with my thumb. I do not have the wrist flexibility in ulnar deviation to cover my middle or index fingers.-Jedd- Jedd, I use both methods (i.e., sometimes placing the bar at the base of the fingers and sometimes further down in the palm). The difference in results is small, usually no more than 2.5k. I push with the thumb almost entirely on the middle finger. What we want to know is how Jim Wylie does it, the WR holder. I think 170k will be broken next year with Jim in the front and several others in hot pursuit. Edited September 22, 2004 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarudriller Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Can someone post the link to that video mentioned above...can't seem to find it. thanks Here ya go.... 2004 Europeans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Jedd, I use both methods (i.e., sometimes placing the bar at the base of the fingers and sometimes further down in the palm). The difference in results is small, usually no more than 2.5k. I push with the thumb almost entirely on the middle finger. What we want to know is how Jim Wylie does it, the WR holder. I think 170k will be broken next year with Jim in the front and several others in hot pursuit. Someone here in the states could break the record by the end of this year, I think, although it most likely won't be in an official competition. Good point, however. What we need to know is how the MAN does it. -Jedd- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I think there are at least 4 guys in the US that could break that record before year end if they have an "on" day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 (edited) Obviously the record can only be broken in a major competition. I would certainly not recognise any WR set in a basement with two friends having a competitive go at the v-bar. As it stands Jim set the record in a major competition and it survived the GGC. Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed by the poundages lifted at the GGC with two men exceeding 150k (Rob and Clay). Edited September 23, 2004 by Mikael Siversson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 23, 2004 Author Share Posted September 23, 2004 Obviously the record can only be broken in a major competition. I would certainly not recognise any WR set in a basement with two friends having a competitive go at the v-bar. As it stands Jim set the record in a major competition and it survived the GGC. Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed by the poundages lifted at the GGC with two men exceeding 150k (Rob and Clay). So is the European world record for grippers Flo's BBSE close even though Nathan is certified on the #4? I don't know if anyone's closed a #4 in the US in competition but if not I guess the record is a BBSE over here???? I can understand your point since plates would need to be calibrated and probably several other things that I haven't thought of that a video just won't help with but then again saying WR's can only be set in major competitions will make them kind of hollow if 2-3 guys are posting videos of themselves breaking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Obviously the record can only be broken in a major competition. I would certainly not recognise any WR set in a basement with two friends having a competitive go at the v-bar. As it stands Jim set the record in a major competition and it survived the GGC. Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed by the poundages lifted at the GGC with two men exceeding 150k (Rob and Clay). So is the European world record for grippers Flo's BBSE close even though Nathan is certified on the #4? I don't know if anyone's closed a #4 in the US in competition but if not I guess the record is a BBSE over here???? I can understand your point since plates would need to be calibrated and probably several other things that I haven't thought of that a video just won't help with but then again saying WR's can only be set in major competitions will make them kind of hollow if 2-3 guys are posting videos of themselves breaking them. Florians 3.65 rated BBSE is the European record set in competition (i.e., a competition record). Nathan Holle will probably never beat that as he will probably never compete. Gripper records in Europe can not be applied to competitions in the USA unless the same set of grippers are used. World records on standardised equippment (in this case the v-bar) are set in proper competitions. I should not have to argue about something that obvious. What is the point of claiming a world record on a LGC v-bar replica, supported by a video clip, when you have absolutely no idea of what Jim has pulled in practise? That would be a hollow record indeed. Jim set his record in a competition where they allowed three attempts (I don't think he failed any of his three attempts). Twenty people failed to beat that record in the GGC even though they, I believe, had five attempts each. I would take a huge lift on a LGC v-bar replica set in practise for what it is: a huge lift set in practise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Obviously the record can only be broken in a major competition. I would certainly not recognise any WR set in a basement with two friends having a competitive go at the v-bar. As it stands Jim set the record in a major competition and it survived the GGC. Don't get me wrong, I was very impressed by the poundages lifted at the GGC with two men exceeding 150k (Rob and Clay). Three men - we all lifted over 150-kilos as the plates only were counted at the GGC. In the IG and European comp plates and apparatus were counted. Please add me to your list of people to be impressed by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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