203.5 pound pinch grip!

[Guest 86-1005097353]

We staged the "World" pinch grip contest using my pinch grip machine on Saturday, Nov. 17, 2001. Several gym members had a go to see what they could lift. I called it a World championship because it was open to anyone. Naturally it really was a gym contest. No outsiders competed. I will be having another such contest next year in November so get training!

The women started first and most finished with less than 25 kg. The winner was my daughter Lani who succeeded with 35 kg which was a personal best. She is not a gym regular and had trained for only 4 days beforehand.

The men saw a few excellent competitors. Gym member Rodney Allan's previous best was 45 kg done last week. This day he amazed me by elevating 60 kg. He is the third person to succeed with more than 60 kg on the machine. He watched carefully what I was doing and listened to the advice that was given. Squeeze first then lift.

In second place was my son Zorba. He managed to equal his personal best done in 1993 of 67.5 kg. A fine effort.

I was left to compete by myself and succeeded with 70 kg, 75 kg, 80 kg, 85 kg, 90 kg and 92.5 kg. I failed with 95 kg. I was very happy with the effort because it was a lifetime goal to pinch 200 pounds with one hand. I am sure someone will come along and do 100 kg or even 110 kg one day. I think it is possible I might achieve 95 kg in the next few months if I continue to train on the apparatus. If you have a goal you just might one day reach it.

I know a lot of you out there will wonder just how my record compares with the pinching ability of others such as Bruce White, Nick McKinless and David Horne. Well, we won't know until they try my machine and/or I compete against them using the apparatus that they are used to.

I don't favour the idea of using any substance or material that will assist the grip. That is why I decided to build a machine using polished stainless steel. On competes with clean hands. If you ask most of the competitors using the machine they report that their hand "slipped" off the plate. If that is so then those who succeeded with the same weight must have had a stronger grip. When you get to heavy poundages the grip seems fine but the weight doesn't move.  I suppose one armed dead lifting or shrugs will be worth adding to a training program. It is necessary to thoroughly wash the hands between attempts so that oils are removed from the surface of the hand. A windex spray is used to clean the plate. The spray is rubbed off.

I really feel very satisfied with my pinch result. At my age, 59, I am still improving and that is a good feeling. Of course we would all like to think our performances are exceptional but how would we know until we actually compete against the specialists out there. What a wonderful thing to find so many enthusiasts on the internet. When I look at photos of most of the fellows I do not see giants. It seems most of us are regular guys who excel at grip feats. I always wonder what those huge bodybuilders and powerlifters would achieve if they specialized. Up to now most seem uninterested. On the other hand, being big and strong doesn't mean you will be able to defeat everyone in armwrestling or grip feats. It seems that feats of strength are very specific abilities.

I am delighted to be among a group of grip enthusiasts and hope to contribute to the sport where I can.

We had a telephone ripping contest after the pinch grip and I managed to finally rip one in two. It was the Sydney A-K and we all used the same book. My son Zorba was still there all alone trying to succeed with his. I gave him some hints and after 35 minutes he succeeded. No one else did! I must say I haven't done that feat for at least 8 years and it totally wasted me. I got a rip going on one side and an offset one on the other side. That made it very difficult to tear. When you do it properly it is quite amazing to see the book separate. It really is a good exercise and I must do more of those from time to time.

I will be posting photos of the machine and contest on my site soon. I have a photo there now of my previous record of 82.5 kg done in 1993. They will be at:

http://communities.msn.com/GripStrength

[mobsterone]

Given the style and method used these are awesome weights. I use a thinner set up than Dave Horne and have recently pulled 90 kilos for 2 x 1 in the two handed pinch grip. I have also found that reversing my grip adds a lot of weight.

[Roark]

Tom Black,

We need some standard widths for pinch gripping.

Hurry, please.

[Bill Piche]

Vince, since you never seemed to get my email maybe this will work...I quote you:

"Well, I posted a serious opinion on the Grip Board regarding the necessity to make a gripper testing apparatus to eliminate the controversies regarding who has closed which gripper. That post has disappeared. Maybe by accident and maybe not."

No one deleted your post.  I also posted here along with others telling you off the board to read the GripBoard as we have been discussing this for months on end.  Many months.

Thanks.

[Tom Black]

Vince, you said in this Post that the "The gripping plate is 2 inches thick and about 6 inches wide and deep. It is made of stainless steel and has been surface ground then polished to a mirror finish."  Looking at the picture on your site, however, the width looks to be less than 2-inches. Maybe it is an optical illusion, but it looks like about 1.25, or at most 1.5-inches.  Can you confirm the measurement?  

    In my IGC post on standards I mentioned that there might have to be different categories of width records maintained.  The general feeling I had from everybody's comments was NOT to have many categories, however, it seems like the reality is that different people and competitions like different widths and surfaces.  Hence, this may dictate the grip community's decision on this.  I noted with interest Nick's two handed, 2-inch width on a very rough surface (described as a "skateboard grip").  This is almost the exact opposite surface compared to yours.   Please don't misunderstand my position; I think both surfaces/apparatus's have their merits.  I think the IGC may have no choice but to have different categories to grandfather existing competitions and records.  I think Vince mentioned that 2" is a good choice because it is also very close to a 5 cm (2-inches=5.08cm, less than a millimeter difference).  I tend to agree that the standard should be 2 inches or 5 cm.

Vince, myself, and probably a few others on the board, are interested in how your machine lifts compare to pinching weight plates.  Can you pinch 2x20kg or 2x15kg Olympic plates?  I'd like to know your best with whatever plates you can do with additional weights attached.  That way I could guesstimate what I could do on your machine.

[Bill Piche]

Me too. I am interested what you can do with plates.  The impression given by this surface (and posts) would be that 2x20kg's would be like child's play for you.  The machine is probably one of a kind as I am sure most have never seen a machine for pinch gripping?  Anyone?

[Roark]

Arthru Jones of Nautilus fame used to indicate that

there were two machines that did not need to be

manufactured if the trainee used proper form with

free weights: calf raises, and wrist curls.

We might add a third, a pinch gripping machine.

While it does no harm, it does add confusion, be-

cause unless Mr. Basile is light years ahead of the

other world level grippers, something is not translating

right.

As it would be much easier for Vince to try plates

than it would be for everyone else to journey to

Australia where the machine is, that would help us

understand the relative comparisons better. I'm sure

the machine has its purposes and is fine, but unless

it becomes widely available it has little comparative

meaning, and since a barbell plate can be found in

any gym, that seems the more logical tool to use

for comparisons.

I am guessing here, but I suspect Mr. Basile is not

one third stronger in the pinch than Mr. Horne. THAT

level of strength would be scary.

[Tou]

Just to put things in perspective, Richard Sorin 123 pounds pinch lift stood up as the record until David Horne break it. Mr. Sorin and Horne figure in the top 10 (if not in the top 5)of all time grip masters. Now, someone comes on the board claiming to be the world record holder with a weight 30 kilos higher than David Horne's best lift. Plus, the appartus used is not plates but a machine. I don't think that a lot of members will believe these world record breaking claims and most will stilol recognize David Horne's 65 kilos pinch as the world record.

Finally, everyone knows the difference between machine and free weights. While I can do 20 reps with 1200 pounds on the leg press, I can't do 20 reps with 350 on the squat.

[jimwylie1]

Roark,

I'm also guessing that just because Mr.Horne tore 42 telephone directories in a row at a recent charity event, Vince's ability to tear them is not 1/42 of that of Mr Horne?  Of course this would depend on the width of the telephone directory and whether or not the hands had been previously washed .

Glad you had a good day Vince .

[mobsterone]

ha ha

I use a thinner set up for training purposes and would agree on a 2 x 2 inch set up as a agreed standard

perhaps using easily available plates?

[AP]

i know that i personally am skeptical about the weights pinched, but also i think that inovation should be commended. a machine for pinch gripping only gives more options for a grip pro to test themselves. one question however, is it possible to cheat more weight up by using lateral pressure? there must be some explination for an untrained women pinching 35kilos?

[Guest 68-1005097157]

AP raises a good point which I missed the first time; it is preposterous than a girl with essentially no training would be able to pinch 35 kg one-handed.  I would say a very liberal estimate for an untrained female in the one-handed pinch with a plate-like setup would be 15 kg; using this 15/35 ratio, Mr. Vasile would have a pinch of around 87 lbs, i.e., on a good day, he could probably pinch 2 45 lb plates.

  Since the surface is supposedly quite slippery, unless the pinch is a very partial movement, something isn't right here.  I think that for your claims to be taken seriously, Mr. Basile, you need to try pinching plates (smooth side out, full 1-handed deadlift, chalk allowed).  Just my thoughts.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

The reason my daughter was able to outlift many of the gym members might be genetic! She works as an ambulance officer so might get assistance there. She said taking blood pressure measurements requires a certain amount of grip strength. I am very proud of her achievement.

You know, when they invented the fibreglass pole for pole vaulting there were howls of protest from many quarters. Using fibreglass and carbon fibre has allowed vaulters to clear heights unimagined in the good old days. I remember the first time 16 feet was exceeded. Now that is a height that school boys might clear. The record today exceeds 20 feet.

That stainless steel allows one to pinch lift more weight should be embraced. We all want to lift as much as we can. I never chose stainless for that reason as I had no idea at all what was possible. We do have to evolve in our sport and I believe professional testing machines will assist us.

The Olympic weightlifting bar revolves around bushes. That allows lifters to lift more weight. It is still an impressive feat to lift those solid bells but who does that anymore?

The grip plate on my machine is 2 inches thick. It might be closer to 50 mm because it was surface ground on both sides. I will measure it with verniers and report back.

I can see that there is a need to build a few more machines. Perhaps I can build 10 X 100 kg machines so that others can have these machines in their countries to test themselves and train on. I believe this will happen eventually. When you think about it we really don't have any consistent standards in our sport.

Yes, Wannagrip, I accept that no one purposely deleted my posts. Perhaps in future an email to that effect might help.

I make no claims to be stronger than David Horne or anyone else. All I know is that I hold the record on my machine. Nick McKinless lives in Australia and I invite him to have a go on the machine and report back his opinion.

I will be posting photos of the recent lifts and also the machine on my site:

http://communities.msn.com/GripStrength

[Roark]

Vince,

It will be interesting to hear what Nick's

comments are in regard to comparing your

machine to plate pinching. Perhaps in the future

your machine will be used internationally.

In the meantime, your analogy about the pole

vault, it seems to me, works against your argument

rather than for it, by acknowledging that it is the

implement not the strength, achieving the added

height.

Allow me to digress:

What we want to avoid is the abyss that powerlifting

is quicksanded into right now. It has become a denim

of inequity with all the silly clothing, and the helpers

needed to get into the garments. Indeed, onlookers

don't believe for a minute that the lifters would wear

those costumes if they could equal their lifts without

wearing them.

By the way, the first handicapped powerlifting meet

will soon take place. It works this way. In the bench

you bench press as much as you can without a bench

shirt, then you put the shirt on and lift whatever more

you can, let's say, 80 lbs more. Then 80lbs will be

the handicap. Come contest day, no one wears a

bench shirt, but each man's handicap is added to

whatever was lifted raw. So if you bench 400 raw,

you get credit for 480.

Speeds things up, and everybody knows the 80 lbs is

a false positive anyway. Problems arise when you outlift

me raw, but I have a bigger handicap and walk away

with the title.

First contest April 1, 2002.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

Hi Joe,

Yes, the pole vault analogy wasn't the best, but the spirit of it was the point. If it is a fact that we can pinch more on smoothe stainless steel then that is a bonus. The general public sees that the hands are washed and no chemical or grip aid is allowed. They can see people slipping on the plate. That is surely something positive because people can get up and try the machine themselves. When they cannot succeed with 25 kg they surely respect anyone who can lift far more than they can.

As you know the history of the Iron Game is most interesting. There were old time strongmen who we will never see the likes of again. Much of what they achieved is unable to be verified because the implements they used were not standard. In the recent times there are people performing feats unimagined by the oldtimers. Of course there really is no way we can compare them. However, in many sports many surpass the best of the heroes of the past. That is across the sports. Gymnasts do feats unimagined by past champions. Divers succeed with ever more difficult dives. Discus throwers exceed the best done in former Olympiads. Weight lifters break records.

In pinch gripping we have the unsatisfactory state of having all sorts of plate differences and thicknesses. It makes a huge difference re surface material and thickness. Until some sort of standardization occurs we will not be able to do any comparing at all. Nor will anyone be able to claim a world record in that event. All that can be claimed is lifting the most on a certain grip plate.

I can't see the point in having a grip surface to help the grip. Having a smooth surface is the only way to go because then we have a standard that everyone recognizes. Once you have rough surfaces you are never going to agree on the degree of roughness and how much that aided pinching.

There is a journey we will all have to take if we want our sport to be recognized and world records established. At the moment there are many problems concerning squeezing grippers. That won't be solved until a machine is available that precisely measures the ability of competitors. I salute all those who close those mighty springs. I wait for the day that we will be able to rate all such ability precisely with a measuring device. When that happens we will be able to measure all gripping strength and declare champions in this event.

[Bill Piche]

Vince, I did email you...you never responded.

You also seemed to have avoided the $64,000 dollar question asked by many now.

What can you pinch with plates?

This will help to guesstimate your machine as I know many are curious.

Can you pinch two 20kg plates or not???  Or more? Less?

Thanks.

[Guest]

Vince, here's a suggestion.

Before you make another post, go try pinch gripping 2 45 (20kg) pound plates.  And get a picture if you can do it.  That will settle this debate far more efficiently than extravagant explainations and beating around the bush.

In any case, congratulations on your lift, it sounds impressive.

Michael Falkov

P.S.  Haven't you noticed any posts about calibrated grippers man?  In nearly every post you make you mention the need to actually know the power of the grippers.  PDA has been offering said service for quite a few months now, its old news.  It would still be nice if you had a machine to calibrate grippers as it would give another option.

As far as competition goes, if all competitiors use the same gripper, than all is equal.  And there are a widew variety of grip machines available, so that is definetely a viable alternative to grippers.

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Hi guys,

I've been reading these posts about Vince's pinch machine for a while and have been trying to refrain myself from entering into the fray. Seeing as I'm the only other person on this board besides Vince to have seen it as well as used it, I feel I should add my thoughts and observations to perhaps help my fellow board members to better understand this machine. Keep in mind that these are my personal opinions.

Firstly I would like to say that pinching on Vince's machine for myself is a totally different lift when compared to pinching plates or blocks. Preparation is the first factor. With Vince's machine one has to wash the hands VERY thoroughly before each lift. One then has to wipe down the stainless steel pinch block with window washing liquid in order to clean the surface from residue from the previous persons attempt. Once again this has to be repeated before every lift.

The positioning of the hand and performance of the pinch on Vince's machine is also totally different. Whereas I would place the object being pinched tightly into my hand to prevent any slippage this method cannot be used on Vince's machine. Basically one must pinch grip the block and pull STRAIGHT away. The fingers slip up until they finally get a good grip and then they lift. The lift is over in basically a second. You must pinch the block and pull VERY quickly in order to avoid too much residue from your fingers getting on to the block and spoiling your lift. Hope you guys can understand what I'm getting at. Also unlike pinching plates, you can apply a bit of lateral pressure to the block like AP theorised in his post, by pulling up and towards you, which will assist you in the lift somewhat.

The range of motion would only be about 3/4". To suceed in the lift you do not have to pinch it, lift and hold it and then lower it. It's basically pinch the block and pull as quickly as you can for 3/4" and let go. I have the feeling that one can excel at this machine quite easily after only a few workouts with it. I'd say it would be possible for any grip trainer to lift 50-60kg after a few workouts. Once again it is a specialised machine and one must get used to it.

The machine is VERY specialised and provides for a different type of pinch lift. One cannot compare weights lifted on this machine with weights lifted by pinching plates. It's like comparing doing a full range overhand deadlift to the weight lifted while doing a 1/4 rep partial with a normal grip.

In saying this I think 203.5lbs lifted on this machine is very impressive and congratulations on the lift Vince, I'm sorry I could not have been there to witness it.

Personally I would like to see the machine have a cast iron handle as well as also have detachable handles of varying widths. This way one can use good old magnesium carbonate rather than having to wash their hands and wipe down the block everytime. I'd also like to see the machine have a wider range of motion with the lifter having to lift the weight UNDER control and holding it in the top position before lowering it back down. Currently pinching on Vince's machine is a ballistic movement. I feel that one can use a machine like this as a means to an end, in helping one pinch two 20kg plates, or lift a blob, but then again I'm biased as I personally feel that a machine can never totally duplicate a movement.

I would be very interested to see how your pinch strength will translate to other pinching feats. With 203.5 lbs you should give one arm pinch grip chin ups on a rafter a go!!!

Hopefully you can show up at the Australia Grip Championships in late January next year. Here we can all compete under the same conditions and on the same equipment. As it will be run under the governing body of All Round Weightlifting Australia and comply with the official IAWA rules all records will be recognised as well as being performed in front of a credible and appreciable audience. So come along.

Arthur

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Vince,

I also think that what some of the guys are trying to get at is that it is hard to understand someone claiming to pinch 203.5 lbs when it has been achieved on machine no one has seen or used before. What they want is a better understanding of your pinch strength. To do this pinch something that everyone can use and can relate to. Try two 1" plates smooth side out and put a pole in the middle. Add some weight and see how much you can pinch in this method. Use chalk too if you like. Although you might think it's a primitve way to pinch it's the way we've pinched for quite a long time and the easiest way for us to compare our lifts.

This way everyone will be able to relate your pinch strength to past achievements and be better equipped to make judgement on your 203.5 lb machine pinch lift.

Arthur

[Arthur Antonopoulos]

Vince,

I also think that what some of the guys are trying to get at is that it is hard to understand someone claiming to pinch 203.5 lbs when it has been achieved on machine no one has seen or used before. What they want is a better understanding of your pinch strength. To do this pinch something that everyone can use and can relate to. Try two 1" plates smooth side out and put a pole in the middle. Add some weight and see how much you can pinch in this method. Use chalk too if you like. Although you might think it's a primitve way to pinch it's the way we've pinched for quite a long time and the easiest way for us to compare our lifts.

This way everyone will be able to relate your pinch strength to past achievements and be better equipped to make judgement on your 203.5 lb machine pinch lift.

Arthur

[Roark]

If Arthur's prediction is accurate that any serious

grip trainee could manage 50-60 kgs on the machine

'after a few workouts', then it goes without saying that

most of us could not pinch that much on a plate after

several years of working on it.

Anyway, this horse is dying quickly; revive it with a

pinch grip plate attempt, please, and settle the matter.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

Hi Arthur,

Thank you for the congratulations. I felt very elated achieving that amount. 200 pounds was only dreamed about. On the Tuesday that you tried the machine I succeeded with 85 kg and said how I would one day like to do 91 kg or 200 pounds. That I have achieved that is the end of a quest. The trouble with achieving goals is that what is there left to do? Well, the lads here are making it a requirement that I establish myself in some way that equates with what others have achieved in pinching. I fully understand that. However, I believe that it goes both ways and we should also see what others can do on my machine. I did not build that machine to favour myself. I merely designed a pinch testing machine. I already knew I would do okay on it. However, I had absolutely no idea the amount of weight that would eventually be lifted on it. The first machine had a 50 kg weight stack. The next one had 80 kg. The present machine has 90 kg. on it. The next one will have at least 100 kg.

Arthur is right about how pinching on the machine differs from doing a similar lift on round plates or a lifting block. When you touch the cold plate the hand gives off a bit of moisture and you can see an imprint when you remove your hand.  I wonder, too, if sqeezing the hand might cause some oils to be released. That is why the plate has to be cleaned after each lift. There is no necessity that this be done, but experience shows that the best results occur if the plate is rubbed down immediately prior to an attempt. Perhaps some of the friction warms the surface slightly and that assists the performance?

Arthur tried positioning his grip as Nick suggest in a post re pinch gripping. However, I advised him to not dwell on the machine and after that he managed to raise weights that were not moving. I did adjust the distance that the lift has to be raised to. I observed that in training some of the people actually lifted the weight but not high enough to trigger the lever that indicates a success. The lever falls when the stack is raised about 10 mm. I will measure that amount. The machine can be adjusted for any amount up to about 2.5 inches. Again, that is an approximation.

Whether pulling sidesways helps the attempt I cannot say. The grip handle is attached to the weight stack which has linear motion bearings in the top two plates. A maximum attempt must surely be lifted straight up. However, like all endeavours, there are sure to be many theories about how to excel and improve performance.

I like the idea of my bringing the machine to Perth in January and having the fellows there have a go at the machine and see what is possible. That will be outside the championships to be staged by Nick McKinless.  The more people who try the machine the better it will be.

The machine has a detachable grip plate. I built that into the machine so that different thicknesses could be attached. So far there have been no requests for thinner or thicker plates. I doubt I will make a cast iron plate for it. I dislike any surface that rusts or needs to be painted. It could be possible to build a wooden plate.

I am glad that many out there are commenting about the event. Surely that indicates that there is interest in this feat. I will say again that at the moment it makes no sense to compare feats done with different surfaces and thicknesses.

I would predict that Nick and David should do very well on the machine. I suggest that most people will need about 3 weeks preparation time to get the most out of their ability. The best that anyone has done without prior practice on the machine was 55 kg.

I well know that lifting a weight is one thing and doing so in a competition is another. Reputations exist and I understand that those who now hold records will be reluctant to compete on so far "foreign" surfaces. However, once more enthusiasts try out the machine I am sure they will appreciate it is a good test of grip strength.

I have a muscle between the thumb and index finger that is quite large. I recall comparing hands with Arnold, Sergio and Ray Mentzer and my hand muscle was larger than theirs. Perhaps that has something to do with pinching ability. I have posted photos of those muscles on my Grip Strength site.

I work doing metal fabrication and use an angle grinder a lot. That requires a good grip and perhaps has assisted my performance. I am not proficient at squeezing those grippers so I am not the all-rounder like Nick and David are. Tom Black can bend those nails and who can beat him? So we see that each of us has a specialty and that is the way it is. No one is the best at everything.

[Guest 86-1005097353]

Hi Joe,

Arthur managed to raise 35 kg on the machine. I was hoping he could return and see what the second session would result in. He said he lifted about as much as he could on a grip block. Strong men should be able to lift over 50 kg, and pinch specialists over 60 kg. Champions I would expect to exceed 70 kg. and more.

How much do we predict Nick will succeed with on the machine? I can't say. It should be a lot. Time will tell. He has competed with David and others so should be a good thermometer. To tell the truth who can predict the performances of others in gripping? I won't be so bold as to do so.

Perhaps I will have to have a cash reward for anyone breaking the machine record? In the past I have offered $200 to anyone who broke the record. I don't see why I can't offer $500 Australian dollars to the first person who can lift 95 kg on the machine in front of myself and another witness. The hand must be clean and no gripping aids used. If I succeed with 95 kg before anyone else, then the person must improve on the current machine record by 2.5 kg before they can claim the prize. This sounds like one of those oldtimers' challenges, doesn't it!

[Guest 86-1005097353]

Hi Joe,

Arthur managed to raise 35 kg on the machine. I was hoping he could return and see what the second session would result in. He said he lifted about as much as he could on a grip block. Strong men should be able to lift over 50 kg, and pinch specialists over 60 kg. Champions I would expect to exceed 70 kg. and more.

How much do we predict Nick will succeed with on the machine? I can't say. It should be a lot. Time will tell. He has competed with David and others so should be a good thermometer. To tell the truth who can predict the performances of others in gripping? I won't be so bold as to do so.

Perhaps I will have to have a cash reward for anyone breaking the machine record? In the past I have offered $200 to anyone who broke the record. I don't see why I can't offer $500 Australian dollars to the first person who can lift 95 kg on the machine in front of myself and another witness. The hand must be clean and no gripping aids used. If I succeed with 95 kg before anyone else, then the person must improve on the current machine record by 2.5 kg before they can claim the prize. This sounds like one of those oldtimers' challenges, doesn't it!

[Bill Piche]

Vince,

Slap two plates together and then let us know how much you do.  Pretty simple really.