austinslater Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 As far as I understood it I think that 2 rags will be used and 1" overhang is allowable. Im sure Pat or Dave can clarify of course but I wouldnt expect drastic changes. I also disagree with the sumo deadlift analogy. I can pull about 200lbs more conventional then sumo. Sumo doesnt fit my body type and im working alot harder when pulling sumo. Edited: Forgot to mention that Eric and Brent great posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Well said Brett! Siversson why are you picking on Eric? Check out David Horne's videos and observe his bending technique, the large cloth used, and the considerable overhang of material. Point out a video that to your mind is the correct way to wrap and bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 "Freestyle unbraced bending" sounds good to me. I am sure you would eventually be able to bend a red in a more conventional and broadly acceptable style Seems like Eric's bend IS broadly accepted. "conventional" ? Eric bent the red nail by the challenge bars rules AND by IM rules, can you see anything more conventional ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaibox Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Of course I am not kidding. The sumo style is just another way of avoiding hard work. 2 years ago, I pulled 605 raw conventionally with back injuries. I've had 2 back surgeries since then, and I will need more in the future. Despite the fact that most people would be laying in bed if their back was in the condition of mine, I'm still bustin' my ass hard. I cannot deadlift conventionally and I probably never will be able to again. It is not physiologically possible for me to pull anything over 2 plates now like this. So, now when I deadlift, I deadlift sumo. So...you're saying I'm avoiding hard work? Or are you saying I am a woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anuwbius Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Man, that dead lift analogy is on the money. Different things work for different people. "Of course I am not kidding. The sumo style is just another way of avoiding hard work. and Ehh, yes they are. A real man does not spread his legs apart like a woman. " are quite extreme. So spreading ones legs make them feminine AND denotes any manhood they may posses? Do you stretch? Gotta spread your legs for that. To say that a variation of an exercise is an avoidance of the means to get results is quite silly. As I understood, bending metal was about bending metal. I would think that if one attained this goal, then they did what they set out to do. Regardless of what muscles are stressed more, or not, the metal is bent. And to bend something like a red, you hands have to have some type of base level strength. Why cannot a person leave to each his own? Make some simple rules for certs regarding padding, and other wise, let people bend how they want. A point was brought up comparing overhand bending using chest vs. wrist to bend. I feel as though there is a difference, and now consider them different styles of bending. But the point is made, the information out there if people want it. At this point, rather then putting down those who prefer one style, why don’t we let people do as they wish. Since when has UNconventional been bad? What ever happened to walking the path less traveled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeP Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I have not posted on these repeated threads but I have read all the posts. I think its getting ridiculous. "a more conventional and broadly acceptable style" this is a blanket statement and as far as I can tell, Mikael, you are one of the few that has any concern with it. He bent the nail, unbraced, in accordance with both sets of rules (challenge & IM), end of story. If the rules were changed, then he may need to change his style, otherwise, this is a pointless conversation. Reds are an IM invention and are bent under their rules, which he did. Are we saying that Dennis Rogers can't bend because he braces, or whatever? He never said that he could. Let the bends speak for themselves. Eric bent within the established rules as written by the group that started it. If you don't like his bending, which it sounds like you don't, just make your own bar and write the rules to bending it. Then we'll all be happy. I'm going to do something constructive, like mow my lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJones Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Eric - no need to re-classify your bending. Your bending is both impressive and more than acceptable. Thaibox - I had surgery on sept of 2003 L5-S1 herniation - doing great now. Austin and others - Lets bend some nails! Mikael - you are the only one expressing concerns as far as I can tell as Mike P points out. Being overly dogmatic about how things are to be done will leave you lacking in the end. The goal in the end is to bend the best bend - or deadlift the most weight. If sumo allows that - great - hook grip vs. reverse grip - great - one rag - two rags - 1" overhang - no overhang - Just bend the nail. Unbraced, appropriately wrapped and U to less than 2" By creating "unbreakable" rules you limit yourself to less than your best. And speaking of useful - my grass needs cut and I have nails that need to bend. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaibox Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Thaibox - I had surgery on sept of 2003 L5-S1 herniation - doing great now. Very glad to hear you're doing well B. That's what I just had done also. My first one was L4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Vigeant Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 Eric, I am disappointed by your response to the concerns expressed on the board. You seem like a man of great determination and I am sure you would eventually be able to bend a red in a more conventional and broadly acceptable style, had you chosen to pursue it. So Mikael you must be able to set PRS in bending with the new SISSY CHEATING way?....... I mean there is such a BIG ADVANTAGE right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Vigeant Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 It sounds like some wish to make everyone bend with the same style out of fear of someone having an advantage that they don't have or an advantage they cannot make work. Isn't that how all rules are changed....... I'll gaurantee that you change the rules a million times and the Greatest benders will ALWAYS be on top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballdad Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 What Rob said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Seems like Eric's bend IS broadly accepted. "conventional" ? Eric bent the red nail by the challenge bars rules AND by IM rules, can you see anything more conventional ? It may seem that I am the only one disapproving of Eric's style. This is far from the truth. Eric did not bend according to the Challenge bar rules as he used the cloth to gain leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Seems like Eric's bend IS broadly accepted. "conventional" ? Eric bent the red nail by the challenge bars rules AND by IM rules, can you see anything more conventional ? It may seem that I am the only one disapproving of Eric's style. This is far from the truth. Eric did not bend according to the Challenge bar rules as he used the cloth to gain leverage. Well, this should be interesting as I just uploaded a video of Eric's 280 C-bar bend and told David it was ready for review. Let's keep it civil guys ok? I don't want have to close yet another bending rules thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Well said Brett! Siversson why are you picking on Eric? Check out David Horne's videos and observe his bending technique, the large cloth used, and the considerable overhang of material. Point out a video that to your mind is the correct way to wrap and bend. David is not defending using a large cloth. If Pat says its no good, David will go along with the soon to come, more specified rules. There are several videos where large two piece cloths are used, but where it is obvious that they were not used to enable full pectoral force to be applied to the ends of the nail almost at right angles (see Shrug's and David Ostlund's clips). The size of the cloth is mainly a problem in the double overhand style and, to some extent, in the initial original Terminator style. It is important to note that we have two separate problems as I see it. The use of a large one piece cloth to gain leverage by pulling on the ends on one hand and the use of padding thick enough to enable full pectoral force applied to the ends of the nails almost at right angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Since when has UNconventional been bad? What ever happened to walking the path less traveled? By broadly acceptable I was referring to other top level benders. I should have specified that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Mikael - you are the only one expressing concerns as far as I can tell as Mike P points out. Then you are misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted April 26, 2004 Author Share Posted April 26, 2004 Mikael, I do understand that you are saying having a towel extending much past the ends of a bar can be used for leverage advantages, particularly with overhand techniques. I don't slight you for your concern regarding this observation. I trust you to be a an honest, good-intentioned individual, but we could argue til doomsday as to what degree of help I or anyone else has gained by using a one- piece cloth, but that is pointless. The point is that David Horne and the other judges have passed my 240 and 260 Challenge Bar certifications. I adhered to the rules in place at the time of those bends. Now the rules are being clarified, and modified to restrict the use of chest crushing. Fine. Who am I to argue with another man's decision to do so with his own bar bending certification process? But keep in mind that David Horne, himself, posted on this board that he felt that no significant advantage had yet been gained by the use of long bending pads in the Challenge Bar certification process. And the original intent of this new post was to introduce a term that I believe describes a broad category of bending, that is both valid and popular. Freestyle bending is about bending steel with one's most advantageous bending leverages, in an unbraced style, with supple padding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 I have no problem with a freestyle category. I was just wondering who was going to organise certifications for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted April 26, 2004 Author Share Posted April 26, 2004 I have no problem with a freestyle category. I was just wondering who was going to organise certifications for it. I've spoken briefly, via e-mail, with John Beatty of Fat Bastard Barbell about his bending certification rules he now has in place. He stated that unless there is a popular outcry for change, his rules would remain unchanged. His rules allow for the type of bending of which I speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Ive talked to a bunch of the top benders who have said that they feel Erics style is perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Austinslater, you would argue against anything I say. It was being inferred that there was only a small minority that objected to Eric's style. My point was that there is certainly more than a small portion of the top benders that would disapprove of his style. Perhaps our definition of what constitutes a top level bender is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Why do not these unamed top level benders speak up? Are you their spokesman, self appointed or otherwise? You certainly are not yourself a top level bender, and have only recently started to bend, as it is to be included in competition. Perhaps you are afraid of being beaten by people who are in general far stronger than you are, and want the rules tailored to suit yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Oldguy, as to recently started to bend. Isn't that the general problem here. Mikael doesn't have a very long experience with this, Austinslater has almost no experience, in fact just about everything on the subject on the board is written by someone with less then a year experience and no experience running contests in bending. If we are to listen to experience then I guess that the only statement that we have read from someone with many years of experience is Brookfields comments about the Holle style that was discussed a while ago. Then we would have to remove the entire high overhand bending style. Is that what you suggest? I am beginning to wonder if it isn't premature to have bending included in more official competitions. I don't think that we are ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Wow, this discussion seems to be dragging on. I'm just so busy right now with my new job and getting things ready for the contest next weekend, so sorry for not getting back to some people. Till after the British contest no rules have changed, except for the inclusion of Bending with leather pads and kinking as seperate sections. After the contest, Pat and I will look at the rules again. We just want to keep the rules in check, all previous bends are good, as of course they were done within the rules of the time. This small transference of rules should be no big problem. So there is no need to carry this on further. As a side issue to get some sympathy I seem to have done my knee in, and have been hobbling around for the last 2 days, not good for my contest or the Punk night. Great! Now I have 3 injuries! Have fun guys and chill. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Mikeal what is with the insults? Im argueing with you becuase you make no sense on the subject. We might agree on alot of things but this isnt one of them. Im also beginning to question your motives. Now your against pats style as its too much of a chest crush? Pat has said he need less and less of an initial kink and now does a chest crush with a straight bar. First you say Pat is the only legit bender and now hes not as well? I think your in this just for stirring the pot. You just keep going in circles and your changing your tune. Werent you kicked off the board once for this stuff? The reason a couple of top benders havent responded is because they see you as a joke and your arguement is weak, as the majority has pointed out but maybe they are just following the mob as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts