supersqueeze Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Bracing...Even a little is still bracing... Ones skill just gets real good at exploiting the brace. Check out the posts about just holding grippers by the coil and most say it was easier to close etc... Just an example. I'm sure there are others.This is exactly the point I was trying to make. How is it that an accidental brush of the leg is enough to DQ a bend but a flagrant chin brace is considered ok? This whole injury excuse is just a bunch of CRAP! The easiest part of any bend is getting it started, whether you brace or not. Finishing it off is the difficult part - hence the creative chin/chest brace. Either eliminate ALL bracing or allow it, that's my opinion. On second thought, if you allowed it, what would we have to argue about? Mike M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ostlund Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 The easiest part of any bend is getting it started, whether you brace or not. Finishing it off is the difficult part I disagree with this. From my bending experience it is the initial bend that is by far the most difficult. If I can get a good initial bend on a piece, in my mind it then becomes a foregone conclusion that I will finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Bracing...Even a little is still bracing... Ones skill just gets real good at exploiting the brace. Check out the posts about just holding grippers by the coil and most say it was easier to close etc... Just an example. I'm sure there are others.This is exactly the point I was trying to make. How is it that an accidental brush of the leg is enough to DQ a bend but a flagrant chin brace is considered ok? This whole injury excuse is just a bunch of CRAP! The easiest part of any bend is getting it started, whether you brace or not. Finishing it off is the difficult part - hence the creative chin/chest brace. Either eliminate ALL bracing or allow it, that's my opinion. On second thought, if you allowed it, what would we have to argue about? Mike M. I'm fairly new to the bending game but kinking it or starting it is far and away the hardest part for me. I have to kink it first then move up to the Holle style but once it's kinked I just blow right through them. Maybe all of that changes when you get into harder steel?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisof4 Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I disagree with this. From my bending experience it is the initial bend that is by far the most difficult. If I can get a good initial bend on a piece, in my mind it then becomes a foregone conclusion that I will finish it. I'm fairly new to the bending game but kinking it or starting it is far and away the hardest part for me. I have to kink it first then move up to the Holle style but once it's kinked I just blow right through them. Maybe all of that changes when you get into harder steel?????????? I agree with both of these. The intial bend is the most difficult part for me. Anything I can get to at least 90 degrees will definately get finished. However, that is obviously because we have been cheating and using the super-secret-brace-with-your-chin technique. I AM JUST KIDDING!! No flames please. I am just trying to inject some humor into what has turned into a VERY serious dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersqueeze Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I'm not talking about a 90 degree bend as getting it started. Heck that is nearly finnished. I'm talking about the first 3-5 degrees of bend. I have a whole box of slightly kinked bars that I have not been able to get finished. I really have a hard time believing that every kinked piece of metal gets completely bent!! Actually, I KNOW that they do not. I'm really not trying to be a dick here it just seems to me that bracing is bracing and you're not fooling me by saying one form isn't really bracing. It really could be simple: give a guy a piece of steel, it either comes back to you bent or it doesn't. Mike M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Ha, this parallels many of the powerlifting debates.My opinion is, the best is the person who can do the most "weight" under the rules. Other feats may be admirable, but to be the best you have to play the same game as the rest of the top contenders. But if Brookfield, Shrug, and the Holle's all bend with different styles how are they going to play the game the same? Brookfield's style is definetly the hardest way to do it but then again if he thinks the others are so easy why doesn't he just demolish some just stupid amount of reds with the Holle or Shrug style? To me it's like someone not certifying on a #3 until they can do a two finger close and then whining that all the rest of the CoC's used 4 fingers even though it was permitted in the rules. Sure the 2 finger close is more impressive but no rules were broken by using all four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Ha, this parallels many of the powerlifting debates.My opinion is, the best is the person who can do the most "weight" under the rules. Other feats may be admirable, but to be the best you have to play the same game as the rest of the top contenders. Isn't John doing the same as many of the oldtimers in olympic lifting did when lifting technique did away of lots of the pressing strength that was needed earlier? As usual, I think that both sides are right. He thinks that the type of strength that he has been used to test with bending is better tested his way. But of course, if someone uses a better technique to bend bars that in that way bends tougher bars then that person is a better bender! Don't really see a big problem with either versions. In powerlifting there is the added extra that some sides are implementing help from equipment which is causing splits in several organisations that want differing amount of equipment help, is a sure way to get problems in the public eye and is a whole other and a bit more serious debate I think. Nils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Well, we've seen the various guys on video doing the red bends. Who has seen Brookfield bend a red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Vigeant Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 This whole injury excuse is just a bunch of CRAP! The easiest part of any bend is getting it started, whether you brace or not. Finishing it off is the difficult part - hence the creative chin/chest brace. Mike M. I Disagree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 First of all Brookfield is a performer of stunts. Second of all why does he not come here and talk about his thoughts on bending and grip? If his technique is more of a pure bend, then let him demonstrate this on video for us to see. If he thinks he is the best then he should compete or issue challenges to the many grip guys, most of whom are found right here. Until them I say ignore him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 We shouldn't ignore a guy who has better things to do than spend his whole life justifying his existence to us. Who are we? Who is he? He has videotapes for sale. Someone buy one of him bending and report back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmainlands Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 The easiest part of any bend is getting it started, whether you brace or not. Finishing it off is the difficult part - hence the creative chin/chest brace. I may add that the most difficult part for me is getting the original kink, not finishing it off. After about 30 degrees or slightly more, the rest is the "easy" part for me. Everyone has their own natural strengths and weaknesses, regardless of the movement being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 First of all Brookfield is a performer of stunts. Second of all why does he not come here and talk about his thoughts on bending and grip? If his technique is more of a pure bend, then let him demonstrate this on video for us to see. If he thinks he is the best then he should compete or issue challenges to the many grip guys, most of whom are found right here. Until them I say ignore him! Don't get me wrong I love the Gripboard but I think we are starting to take ourselves a little too seriously. John Brookfield is a legend and has nothing to prove to the Gripboard and just because he hasn't submitted a video to us doesn't mean he can't bend the Red nail. I imagine the man is too busy being a legend to worry about us. Just because the Gripboard doesn't have proof of a feat/stunt doesn't mean that it's invalid or didn't happen. The Gripboard isn't the supreme authority as far as what is a valid grip feat. The Red certification is IM's deal and if they say he bent one, that's good enough for me. That said, he should at least challenge the guys on the Red list to some sort of bending contest if he's going to say he's the best maybe with the Holles or whoever having to bend his style and seeing if they can match him and him bending their supposedly easier style and try to match some of their accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 i wonder if the "old time" strongmen cauaght as much grief in their day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Nah, Dave, they didn't have bulletin boards like this then. Damn you Al Gore for inventing the internet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Nah, Dave, they didn't have bulletin boards like this then. Damn you Al Gore for inventing the internet!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMunger Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 i wonder if the "old time" strongmen cauaght as much grief in their day? "Got video?" "What's video?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghd56 Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 3Crusher, I just bought the Brookfield videos a few weeks ago. They're available thru his website: www.samsonscroll.com One of them is right up your alley: Steel Bending. If you want to see it let me know. John DiStano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 John does he bend any short pieces of steel like nails or the red on the video? Thanks! Austin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghd56 Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Hey Austin, He bends nails, 1/2" iron bars, and demonstrates scrolling. Gives safety tips, etc. In one demo he does speed bending on a 60 penny nail. Wish he would have done the red nail myself. I'm curious as to how much of a struggle it is for him. John D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Brookfield is definitely a Legend, and certainly doesn't have to justify himself. However - if you're going to write "controversial" articles like this you should probably be prepared to put up or shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 6, 2004 Author Share Posted March 6, 2004 i wonder if the "old time" strongmen cauaght as much grief in their day? I doubt they slammed up and comers who may replace them....but maybe they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 Hey Austin, He bends nails, 1/2" iron bars, and demonstrates scrolling. Gives safety tips, etc. In one demo he does speed bending on a 60 penny nail. Wish he would have done the red nail myself. I'm curious as to how much of a struggle it is for him. John D. Brookfield can't bend a Red unbraced, so he is unlikely to demonstrate on a video. The most likely reason he favors the "double overhand at the waist" style for his Red bends is it allows him to start the bend with a quick push against his hip and then finish the bend unbraced. We definitely waste too much effort lionizing a professional performer. Regarding upperbody strength and bending: For me it is only a factor in the final crush down. The initial bend is all wrist, if I am doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 "We definitely waste too much effort lionizing a professional performer" Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 6, 2004 Share Posted March 6, 2004 i wonder if the "old time" strongmen cauaght as much grief in their day? "too busy being a legend" ha ha. Reality check guys of course old time strongmen got slated. It was by other old time strongmen. They would put out challenges to each other, hoping of course that the other dude didn't actually turn up! With the invention of the internet any fool can be the be all and end all - check the bodybuilding boards for the 400lb 3% b/fat monsters curling 200 pounds in each hand if you'e not sure. One good thing about the board is the onus of proof is on us - the person claiming he's done this or that. Get witnessed, videoed and have your peers recognize your surpremecy over this gripper or that feat. If John is as capable as he says he is then it is a matter of a moment to prove it. Think on - if Joe Kinney, Nathan Holle, Richard Sorin and John Brookfield were all members (I know R.S. was but I haven't seen him post for a while) even more of us would have shut the 4 and bent the red. How could we not learn from them. Now I'm "too busy getting ready to be a legend" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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