Bill Piche Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Comments? His last line when he talks about Gavin's technique versus his own: "If you are more interested in bending with lower arm strength, try keeping your hands together at waist height on the Red Nail" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqeezeMasterFlash Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I've tried bending with my hands together at waist level. Can't kink a timber tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMunger Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 For me, with a double overhand style, it is harder at the waist. At chin level I can use more upper body. -HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Maybe he does not like the fact that others are bending the red in very strict style. It must be hard not to be the best there is in unbraced bending any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I doubt it. He paved the road others are now travelling. -HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 The line before this one basically says the other technique is shoulders and chest. You can draw your own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Maybe he does not like the fact that others are bending the red in very strict style. It must be hard not to be the best there is in unbraced bending any more. I think his point was that the other styles have taken what used to be a feat of mostly lower arm strength and have turned it into a feat of total upperbody strength. I'd be interested to hear the Hammerman's comments on the Holle/Terminator style or even the double underhand, considering Slim style is all wrist strength. To me bending a red nail is world class no matter what style you use as long as you don't brace but I'm the same guy that sees no problem with setting grippers to under one inch either as long as the close is done one handed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Has anybody here ever seen a video of John Brookfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 What video?! I don't think there is one in existence? I'm sure since it's portrayed that John uses a stricter style and "bends reds in short order" in the pictures, he'll be showing the GB guys at the Arnold how it's really done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick McKinless Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 That whole article is very ambiguous. A lot of the comments are quite derogatory towards The Holle's style of bending. He doesn't even mention Pat's pure wrist starting method. I have to say, the Gripboard takes no prisoners and IMO you should put up or shut up...John has done some great things in bringing grip to strength athletes but others have taken this way further. From what I can see most of his feats are very obscure ones, he kind of tinkers away looking for something 'new'. I also see many people here bettering these feats with apparant ease. Perhaps his DVD will impress us to new levels though... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I think the quickest way to loose respect from your peers is to do just that, making these kind of comments. Pat and Gavin are, as far as we know the best unbraced benders in the world. Is Brookfield even in the top ten by the end of this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Bending a red at waist level in a double overhand fashion shows out of this world wrist strength. Even in Pat's style there's a lot of upper body strength involved during the kink (back strength and triceps strength mainly IMHO, like in armwrestling ). JB kink style is (IMHO) almost pure wrist strength. Unbelievable. JB is probably the only bender in the world who is able to do that with a red. NOW : bending a short piece of steel unbraced is the name of the game and those that can bend the hardest nails this way are the BEST benders, PERIOD ! Bending a blue nail while playing a Listz Sonata with your feet is indubitably World Class but that doesn't make you the best bender in the world ! The best bender in the world is the one that can bend the hardest nail unbraced. Amaury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) What video?!I don't think there is one in existence? I'm sure since it's portrayed that John uses a stricter style and "bends reds in short order" in the pictures, he'll be showing the GB guys at the Arnold how it's really done. Do you know if there is anything on the new DVD/VHSs' ? As at least one of the is supposed to be about bending one could hope that there are some max bends. But I don't know anyone that has bought it yet. (I refer to the videos he sells on his website) Nils Edited March 5, 2004 by nils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Bending a red at waist level in a double overhand fashion shows out of this world wrist strength. Even in Pat's style there's a lot of upper body strength involved during the kink (back strength and triceps strength mainly IMHO, like in armwrestling ). JB kink style is (IMHO) almost pure wrist strength. Unbelievable. JB is probably the only bender in the world who is able to do that with a red. Has anyone on this board observed Brookfield bend a red unbraced any style? I strongly disagree with your statement about triceps being an important factor in making the initial kink using Pat's style. Using this style I can bend considerably harder steel than my god friend Arne (who prefers double underhand). Now, his arms measure about 50 cm whereas mine are about 38 cm. He is about twice as strong as me in virtually all imaginable triceps exercises. It would be so easy for Brookfield to demonstrate superior unbraced bending as there are several grip comps each year in the US these days. That would do it. Making claims in a magazine about your and others bending abilities does not quite cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I strongly disagree with your statement about triceps being an important factor in making the initial kink using Pat's style. Using this style I can bend considerably harder steel than my god friend Arne (who prefers double underhand). Now, his arms measure about 50 cm whereas mine are about 38 cm. He is about twice as strong as me in virtually all imaginable triceps exercises. Well, triceps is certainly not the limiting factor for Arne. And maybe not for you either. In that case you both have enough triceps strength to make something else the weak link. For me it was triceps that failed when I used the terminator style. One of the short heads couldn't take the punishment at all well and was the limiting factor. Nils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I strongly disagree with your statement about triceps being an important factor in making the initial kink using Pat's style I said the tris were used i didn't say it was the main factor. All factors are important though (cf the weak link statement made by nils above). Pat's kink style is NOT pure wrist strength, it not comparable to the double overhand waist kink in that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 When did you see Brookfield do an unbraced double overhand at waistline? I can bend harder steel if I do the double overhand below the chest. Take his comments for what they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonL Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 www.samsonscroll.com John Brookfields website and has DVD's on the "Art oF Steel Bending" and Kettlebell training. JasonL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOHANDS Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Does Brokfield use any cloth while bending? And should bare-hand bending be considered more impressive than with a cloth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagual Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Well bare-hand bending is more about pain tolerance I believe. I know that when I add pain as a factor to any strength feat, it greatly diminishes my potential. Edited March 5, 2004 by nagual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Pat's kink style is NOT pure wrist strength, it not comparable to the double overhand waist kink in that aspect. I disagree, the wrist doesn't move at all in any style. The wrist has to be held static in all styles in order to allow the power from the upper body and arms to transfere into the nail. This static hold is like holding a sledge in position, if you can't see to get it up there you might think to blame your shoulder strength or upperbody strength (a newbie or guy on the street might say this) but really its the wrist thats under the most stress. Of course some styles put your wrist in a more/less favorable position but I don't think we should award more points to people who bend in an unfavorable one. If you want to be known for bending the biggest steel, then you have to bend it. If you want to be known as a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none thats fine just don't pretend. I think the Holles have proven that bending in any style really is a hand and wrist exersize. I wouldn't start to think that your weak point is your triceps, chest or otherwise upperbody unless you are at the level of bending reds and yet can't bench or overhead press what the Holles can. They're not bending ~270kg reds because they have massive chest strength, its because they can transfere what strength they have into the steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersqueeze Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 All this talk of bracing vs not bracing is starting to irritate me. What about the under the chin, neck and chest brace used by most in their "non-braced" bends? Clearly the neck, chest and chin are used to support and steady the hands and wrists during the start and finish of the chest crush. Is this not bracing? Mike M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suterp Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I have practically no experience bending, but doesn't the wrapping material add leverage? Especially when it's a short bar and a thick wrap, I'm guessing it makes a big difference. I think if bending gets more popular and competitive, the whole wrapping issue will get scrutinized, and using certain materials and thicknesses will not be considered legit bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Of course some styles put your wrist in a more/less favorable position but I don't think we should award more points to people who bend in an unfavorable one. If you want to be known for bending the biggest steel, then you have to bend it. If you want to be known as a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none thats fine just don't pretend. Seems like you both disagree and agree with me lol, that was exactly my point. I'll quote me lol : The best bender in the world is the one that can bend the hardest nail unbraced. Let's put it simply: with Terminator 's style and Holle's style and spike style (or Shrug style) A LOT of upperbody power is involved. It is just a FACT and i'm not sorry if some people don't like it. With Holle's style i can bend a 6*160mm nail easily while i can't even put a kink in it with Brookfields style. Though my wrists are worked in the same direction and they are in a much more comfortable position to exert their strength with John's style. So where the hell the difference comes from ?? Well i simply put a lot of chest strength while using Holle's style during the kink, and i can't almost put anything but wrist strength with John's style (except maybe if i were the king of the cable cross over i could exert some lateral pressure with my upperbody). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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