Vince Basile Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 (edited) Wade understands exactly what I am referring to regarding the lack of standards and rules, etc. Therefore world records cannot be set using various equipment and conditions. All that can be claimed by anyone is world bests. If Wade or anyone else can pinch more weight than anyone else they raise the bar and become the new holder. This is not very satisfactory at all but is all that is possible at the moment. We do have some commercial products that are reasonably priced and available to most of us. However, Ironmind's evolution of a pinch block is not a positive. As a manufacturer, I understand why they make things the way they do. The cheapest and easier way is usually the way companies do it. Why? Well, if they don't do that then someone can come along and make a cheaper device and underprice them. The former Ironmind pinch block was 4 inches deep and 2 inches thick. That suited many of us better than the current 3 inch thick block. They had a problem with the smaller block in that some people with huge hands could put their fingers under the sides. People selling those blocks asked that Ironmind make longer blocks to prevent this from happening. Ironmind could have used 5 X 2 inch steel but chose to go to 6 X 3 inches. It is standard manufacturing procedure to paint products (powdercoat) which end up as shiny and slippery. Add the slightly concave surface and you have a product which doesn't suit gripping very well. Instead of having a block that allows a lot of weight to be lifted and hence separating the competitors we find that very small increments make a big difference. My solution was to use polished stainless steel for the block. This made painting unnecessary. I used 4 X 2 which was suitable for most of us. However, one could order 5 X 2 1/2 which might be better for everyone. Well, except those with small hands. The adjustable width seems to be the way we will be going in this sport. Maybe one day we might use stainless steel in competitions but I can't see that happening for reasons of expense. However, the price of standard Olympic bars is very expensive but that is what must be used in official competitions. We have a very long way to go before achieving what we find in weightlifting competitions. Yes, small sports like grip are not very popular. Even if we were to advertise events it is unlikely that anyone other than the enthusiasts and some friends would come to watch. Therefore it seems it isn't going to be much of a spectator sport. Without an appeal to the general irongame population grip sport is unlikely to forge ahead. Who would put on a contest and offer prizemoney? Perhaps some equipment companies? I cannot see much potential at the moment until the sport gains more publicity. We seldom read about grip feats in bodybuilding magazines and gone are the formats of Ironman and Strength and Health magazines that used to feature strongmen of all kinds. Suppose Wade, David, Nick, Mark, Richard, Scott and anyone else wanted to challenge everyone to see who the best pincher was? What equipment would be used and what would be the rules? At the moment there is no universally accepted standard. Promoters select events and equipment and that is about it. The closest we have for a standard is the apparatus chosen for this years European Grip championships. That apparatus is adjustable and is 16 inches steel discs with a hole in the middle for a bar. The user grasps the apparatus and stands erect using two hands. If Wade and others obtain this piece of equipment then at least we can have informal contests to see what all of us can lift on it. That isn't the same as showing up for a championship. However, all interested can show up at the European contest and use that as a substitute world event. Until then, "if you want to have world records then you need controlled conditions and that will only come from competition, rules, and standardization of the equipment." Edited January 4, 2004 by Vince Basile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Basile Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 Talking about popularity and crowds at weightlifting reminds me that hardly anyone came to watch unless it was for the Olympic games. In America they decided to stage the Mr America contest with the weightlifting to get more people to be spectators. On some occasions the weightlifting took too long and the Mr America was staged after midnight! Maybe some of the grip events can be staged at bodybuilding contests. It is a simple matter to work with promoters to see if such things can be included. We used to include armwrestling and bench pressing in various bodybuilding contests in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Groper™ Adjustable Pinch Block prototype is complete. The groper? Are you kidding? What a ridiculous name. Outstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Gillingham Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 It doesn't have to be a spectator sport. Very few people watch WSM in person but millions watch it on TV every year on the BBC and ESPN. The sponsors would likely have to be from outside the grip/fitness world as there is not as much money in fitness equipment, grip aids, supplements, etc., as most people think. There's no reason why companies like Budweiser, Coors, Craftsman Tools, DeWalt, Home Depot, Vise-Grip (Irwin Tools), Wells Lamant, etc., couldn't be approached. Yes, piggybacking on existing contests or expos is a great idea. Mr. O, Arnold, Show of Strength, X-Treme Strongman Nationals, would be good choices in the US for a national comp. Marketing is the key. We now sit in front of the tv and watch strongmen, powerlifters, bodybuilders, lumberjacks, pool sharks, and poker players, not to mention cheerleaders, aeorbic competitors, and ballroom dancers. What is more commonplace than having a good grip? My last point on this, then I will shut up, is the qualifying competitons would need to be open to anyone. This could get very interesting is the unknown guys start coming out like mechanics, loggers, masons, electricians, etc.. I think you could generate a tremendous amount of interest at local events like county fairs and town festivals if you open it up for anyone to try. I almost forgot, this is something I have been thinking about since getting a call from a reporter in the twin cities area that wants to do a story on grip. I thought she was crazy but entertained her with an hour or so interview. I know she has talked to some of you reading this and I gave her other names to contact. If this story gets printed it would be a huge step forward. From talking to her it sounds like she is really doing her research on this trying to make it as factual as possible. If a main stream paper in minnesota writes a national and possible world wide perspective on grip (and it gets printed) I see no reason why we can't move forward with organizing this sport. Before that call I never would have thought anyone gave a crap, just like before Bill pointed my towards this board I never thought there was much sport in having a good grip other than being stronger than the next guy in the gym. It can be bigger if we just have the vision. Now I will shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Groper™ Adjustable Pinch Block prototype is complete. The groper? Are you kidding? What a ridiculous name. Outstanding! Yeah, no lie. It is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 There should be an article on grip in the Pioneer Press on January 12th, although the date had already been changed a couple of times. Hopefully they stick to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bseedot Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Vince, are you able to DL the Blob? BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Van Weele Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 How about 3 35's, 3 25's, a York plate with a shallow hub or 6 10's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Basile Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 To answer Matt Van Weele and BC. Pinch events are very particular and much depends on handsize when it comes to wide objects like the Blob. At the moment no one else has pinched more than 67.5 kg on the machine. Anyone who wants to try it out can do so free of charge. Naturally you have to get to my gym in Sydney first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Dockery Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Vince, are you able to DL the Blob?BC. How about 3 35's, 3 25's, a York plate with a shallow hub or 6 10's? Haven't we been down this road before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bseedot Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Vince, you didn't answer my question, but you do bring up an interesting point. But first, am I to understand that the answer to my question is 'no'? I ask the question not to be condescending, but because I know that there is a Blob in Australia now that I cut and shipped myself. You're absolutely correct that pinch events are very particular and, as obscure as Blobs seem to be, many of today's great pinchers own or have access to them. That being said, and knowing that you have access to one, the Blob at least allows for comparison in a particular pinch feat- a sort of common ground, if you will. BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Basile Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 Pinching the Blob or 2 X 45 lb plates, while "impossible" for most, is not the end all of demonstrating pinching ability. Neither should they be the threshold standards by which pinch grip strength is measured. The one factor that has emerged that greatly affects ability is width. It is agreed that those with smaller hands cannot be compared to those with larger hands and perhaps, vice versa. That is why an adjustable apparatus will be used in the European championships this year. There is no known ratio such that we can measure and compare strength among the various pinching feats. The notion that if someone cannot perform certain feats they are not strong in that aspect of grip is false. Common sense suggests that if someone has exceptional pinch strength they should be able to demonstrate it on all pinching apparatus. Sadly this is not true and should not be entertained as applicable to grip strength. I have no idea what Blob lifters can lift on the pinch grip machine. Wade and others are surely invited to have a go. However, location makes this rather unlikely to happen. It is possible to build other machines but so far there has been little interest. At the moment the only feat that allows one to have a title is closing the number 3 gripper from Ironmind. You become a Captain of Crunch. Certified being the noble variety. I'm not sure if those who close the 4 are Colonels of Crunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bseedot Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Nevermind... BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Actually, Vince, there is the GripBoard MashMonster too. By the way, here's Brian's question again. Do we assume NO to these questions? Vince, are you able to DL the Blob? BC. How about 3 35's, 3 25's, a York plate with a shallow hub or 6 10's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrounder74 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 just curious guys--- out of everyone who's d.l.'d the blob, who's got the smallest hands, and whats the size of his hands? if anyone happens to know? ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 i do not agree with everything that MILO writes about.I don't always agree with the way Iron Mind promotes their products.I have had threads closed because of my comments.So-my point- I'm not jumping on the MILO fan club band wagon or kissing ass...(I will also add i have NOTHING against the magazine,products or Strossen) BUT the IM pinch block is already out there.Perhaps hundreds have been sold.IM has-in the past provided money for contests(good money!)-they ARE consistant devices and they are VERY inexpensive.... Why make it so complicated?Why have to worry about the various widths of plates or bars through the middle or the variances in the paint or texture of the 45# plates. pick the IM big block up lefty and pick it up righty and show up next time IM has a contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Vince while blobs may be to wide for your hands you very easily could find 2 45's that fit your hand size just fine so if you cant at least find a pair of 45's that you can pinch you shouldn't even bring this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Dockery Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I seem to remember an old thread that followed much the same course.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Vigeant Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 To answer Matt Van Weele and BC. Pinch events are very particular and much depends on handsize when it comes to wide objects like the Blob. At the moment no one else has pinched more than 67.5 kg on the machine. Anyone who wants to try it out can do so free of charge. Naturally you have to get to my gym in Sydney first! I have a machine that no one else has pinched more than 155lbs on and my best on MY machine is 162lbs one hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Groper™ Adjustable Pinch Block prototype is complete. The groper? Are you kidding? What a ridiculous name. Outstanding! Wasn't that the Govenor of Californias nickname?? Quite seriously though...and i thought perhaps i had lost my mind but i don't understand the correlation between 'pinch grip' AND the trademarked name of this product? I looked it up: 1)to feel about blindly and uncertainly in search 2)to look for something blindly or uncertainly 3)to feel ones way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Basile Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 This thread has gone off track. Wade and I discussed the notion that standardized equipment, rules and competitions are required to establish world records. I commented on the history of pinching and stated that anyone surpassing previous best pinches were credited with holding the world best pinch. Typically many asked about Blobs and 45 lb plates but I fail to see how that helps one lift more on specific pinching apparatus. They are but two feats accepted as demonstrating superior pinching ability. They are not the only feats and cannot be used as standards because of considerations of hand size. Whether I can or cannot lift the Blob or 2 X 45 lb is irrelevant to this discussion. For the record I cannot do either of them. That still doesn't diminish what I have lifted on the machine. One person who has done the 2 X 45 lift didn't outlift me on the machine. It has to be stated that pinching is very specific to surface, width, apparatus and height lifted. Ironmind has a pinch block but this is too wide for most individuals and not an acceptable standard. End of story. We deserve far better than what some manufacturers offer. Just because something is available and cheap is no reason to select it to test grip strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Dockery Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Actually I find that available and cheap are very convincing reasons for selecting a given standard. If you establish a given standard, but are the only one who has access to said apparatus; it is very easy to declare yourself "World's Greatest Whatever" without the petty nuisance of someone challenging you. You know what...nevermind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Whether I can or cannot lift the Blob or 2 X 45 lb is irrelevant to this discussion. For the record I cannot do either of them. That still doesn't diminish what I have lifted on the machine. One person who has done the 2 X 45 lift didn't outlift me on the machine. It has to be stated that pinching is very specific to surface, width, apparatus and height lifted. And you can not outlift him on plates, so the point is moot IMO. You have a mchine where you are #1 in the world right now, and everyone else has their cruddy little plates that you can't lift in the same motion. I can lift the blob, can't lift 45's so I'm not a threat to any pinch record. To me, now this is just me, what David, Scott Clayton, Ron Mazza, Wade and Rob V have done with plates is far more impressive. Simple reason, I have access to them. No one is putting down you record I don't think, simply just overlooking it. For 99% of the grip world the standard is a pair of 45's and a big ass IM block without tape..... But, I'm just a crush guy so what do I know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Vigeant Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 They are not the only feats and cannot be used as standards because of considerations of hand size. Whether I can or cannot lift the Blob or 2 X 45 lb is irrelevant to this discussion. For the record I cannot do either of them. Vince nobody CRYS about hand size more than me, we do understand what you are saying but , i have 7'' hands and CAN pinch 2 45lbs and i'm not in the top 20 in the world. Hell i'm not even the best in MY family! So for you to say your the best on YOUR machine good for you. but to give you an idea make your own implement any width you want, out of anything you want (block of wood and loading pin, 2 plates with grip tape and a bar etc.) See if YOU can pull the weight David, Wade, Steve, Scott, Tommy,The Holles, etc. etc. etc.......Then you will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Basile Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 (edited) Okay, I have got the message here for a couple of years now. If someone cannot do the feats listed they have no currency in elite grip circles. I find that rather unfair. However, consider this, I have pinched 203.5 pounds with one hand on a mirror finished stainless steel surface. That is equivalent to 20 X 10 pound plates. That is a lot of steel to lift with one hand. Why should any fair minded grip person overlook that? If you think it easy be my guest and come and lift more. The machine is available to anyone who wants to use it. The current "accepted" best of 65 kg or 143 pounds was done on plates that total 2 inches in width. David's best. I have stated before that my feat doesn't mean that I can outlift David or anyone else on other apparatus. I argued that all pinch feats were relative to the equipment used. I still maintain that today. So it is plainly false that 99% of people accept 2 X 45 as the standard for pinch records. I think what is true is that many participants on the Gripboard accept 2 X 45 as the standard of a decent pinch lift. There is no history of that being the only standard. Bruce White used 2 inch widths and so have other people. Having convenient and cheap equipment is no reason to use them as standards. We can use them to compare performances done at home but we need far better equipment to be used in competition. Why grippers are still used in competitions perplexes me. Why not use a Gripanator or other device that allows weights to be changed and increments added that could be as little as we like? Grippers will never be a standard because of the vagaries of spring steel. Edited January 5, 2004 by Vince Basile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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