"heavy Duty" Hands?

[ianders1]

Disclaimer: I am not trying to start a debate on training philosophies.

After 10 years of semi-successful training, I decided to give Mike Mentzer's methods a try with his latest book, with the "What have I got to lose?" attitude. It has worked phenomenally well for me, and I am wondering if anyone on this board applies his theories to grip training. If you do, I'm interested in what exercises you do, your frequency, and how you split up your workouts.

[JasonL]

Curious to know what your WHOLE workout program consists of, since I am thinking about it myself? thanks..

Jay

[HAMMERHEAD]

Tell us what principles you're gonna apply. My knowledge is limited here.

-HH

[bender]

For the entire span of my more serious lifting career, I've stuck to HIT training and I couldn't imagine training anyother way (until I found west side about a year ago, which is sort of a HIT program). Grip, on the other hand, is different.

I've tried to give the #3 one solid 100% squeeze for as long as humanly possible. The warm up and the the intensity were such that the single #3 close would be the pinacle of my work out. What happened was I had a great #3 close. What also happened, was in 5 minutes I felt like doing it again. This time, I'd put the same effort into over-crushing it and give it hell. 5 minutes later, I felt like doing it again. After the third, I'm usually done, but then I feel like playing with the block weights or hangboard.

Bending is a bit differnt, as after a big bend, I usualy don't feel like another, but this is usualy due to joint pain.

With pinch, i find it impossible to judge the weight I'll handle for the day, so just progressivly work my weight up to a max, but in 5 minutes I feel like training on a different block weight, or giving the Blob a few pulls. In both cases, I always have more energy for another effort.

In the end, HIT doesn't really have a place in Hand Strength training. I do believe you should work to a near max every work out, but I also believe in a much higher volume program that the HIT mentality won't allow.

[ianders1]

I'll try to answer each of you:

JasonL:

Here's my routine (1 set to utter-failure of each):

Workout 1

Cable Crossovers 1x6-10 (Pre-exhaust Pecs)

Incline Press 1x6x10

Straight-arm pulldowns 1x6-10 (Pre-exhaust Lats)

Weighted Pullups 1x6-10

Deadlifts 1x6-10

Workout 2

Leg Extensions 1x12-20(Pre-exhaust Quads)

Leg Press 1x12-20

Hammer Strength Ab Machine 1x6-10

Workout 3

Tricep Pushdowns 1x6-10 (Pre-exhaust Triceps)

Weighted Dips 1x6-10

Hammer Strenght Bicep Curls (Pre-exhaust Biceps)

Close-grip Underhand pulldowns

Rest 6 days between workouts, 18 days between bodyparts. Initially you start with 4 days between workouts, but soon, that isn't enough.

Add 10% to each once reps exceed 10 or 20 reps depending on the exercise.

Ok, you're probably asking a few questions:

1. Why no squats? For me, Squats tend to work my back more than my legs. I think that I may alternate squats and leg presses though.

2. Why no calves? I am getting too much indirect work from leg press and deadlifts (yes, deadlifts) and was overtraining them, so I cut them from my routine.

3. Why no delts? Again, too much stimulation, so I cut them.

4. How could it work with that much rest? Good question, all I can say is that it does. The key to this method is to documenting each workout. It's kind of a pain, and you have to use the same exact machines each workout, but it really works.

5. Why does it work for me? I have gone up in reps / weights on almost each and every workout. When I haven't I don't wonder if I'm not getting enough protein, creatine, XYZ - I just know I need to rest longer, or that I'm overtraining that bodypart. No mystery, and no going in tired, unmotivated, or losing strength between workouts.

6. What is required to use it? I think that you need at least 6 months or so of training under your belt, otherwise you can't generate the kind of intensity that is required. You have to be willing to give your full effort on each set, which as many here know is about 99% mental, 1% physical when you get to those last reps.

7. Using those heavy weights - aren't you hurting, injuring yourself? No. I have fought tendinitis in shoulders, wrists, knees for years, and by resting this much, my tendons are getting a chance to grow and strengthen before I punish them.

HH:

My thinking in applying it to grip training is to isolate which exercises work which muscle groups and split them up into 2-3 workouts that I can do every 4-6 days. I'm thinking that the hand/wrist tendons would really benefit from added rest time.

bender:

Have you ever tried to take longer rests between workouts? I mean like a week or more?

I understand the need for intensity in any workout, but why do you feel that hands/forearms need less rest?

Also, how often do you progress in strength on bending, pinch gripping etc. - every few weeks, months, etc.? Have you ever gotten weaker from one workout to the next?

ALL:

Please understand, I am not trying to preach or say anyone's methods are wrong. I just know that Mentzer's techniques work really well for me, and I'm interested in applying them to grip training.

[Sean Dockery]

Most folks on this board have found that everyday training is the way to go. You may be an exception. Or maybe not. Give it a try, and let us know how it works.

You'll hear volume praised alot on the Gripboard, which is somewhat surprising, since it is an annex of Cyberpump a HIT type website. And very interesting to me..if Wannagrip (or bender above) spends half his time promoting low-volume, high-intensity for the vast majority of training and then does a 180 in a specific area, advocating very high volume for grip training. It makes me wonder how he came to this conclusion, and is strong evidence that high volume is indeed the way to go in this specific area.

Again, it's your show. Do what you want. I'm just attempting to explain why you'll hear the majority at the Gboard talking volume.

[ianders1]

macronan,

I actually found the Gripboard when a search to HIT sites turned up Cyberpump. I respect your and the other people's responses for your advice and insight.

I am new to grip training, and I have noticed that most people here follow a high-intensity, high-volume approach.

My situation is a little unique, because my hands are in a near constant state of pain and inflammation from the work I do all day on computers

My goals are to get stronger hands in the hopes of someday eliminating the pain as well as to help my lifting. I'm not preparing for WSM or anything.

Maybe I'll just be the guinea pig and post my results

As you say, it's my show, and like everyone here, I'm just trying to find what works best for me.

[bender]

Have you ever tried to take longer rests between workouts? I mean like a week or more?

Yes, and I've lost strength. A week break leads to something Wannagrip calls "Neural Dumbness", when the neural pathways are deprived of high intensity gripping and are dumb, that is, they forget how to fully function.

In fact, I've found my peak strength to come after about 4 consecutive days of near 100% effort on a single grip exercise like wide-pinch, grippers, or even bending. The 5th day I feel a drop off, so I take the next two off. The day I come back on, I shatter PR's.

I understand the need for intensity in any workout, but why do you feel that hands/forearms need less rest?

This is the battle cry of the gripboard "Your hands were designed to be used every day, all day long, why not use this phenomenon and train them all day, every day". The end result is some creepy strong hands.

There are plenty of posts on this topic, but I'll restate a few things. Electricians and mechanics work with their hands all day long, every day. So this would mean they would all have weak over-trained hands, right? No, they have the strongest average hand strength on the planet. The hands are designed to recover fast.

The hands have an unbelievable ability to recover quickly. I can't squat-goodmorning-neckharness every day. That would be silly and stupid. I CAN work max effort grippers, max effort block weights, and max effort finger tip supporting strength EVERY DAY. I end up with sore hands, but they heal fast, and I can do it again the next day.

If you havn't read it yet, check out my #3 story on my website about what happened when I started a very-high-volume block weight program. I advanced faster towards all my grip goals than I would have thought possible. It's been three months since that program ended, and I am just getting stronger.

Also, how often do you progress in strength on bending, pinch gripping etc. - every few weeks, months, etc.? Have you ever gotten weaker from one workout to the next?

I would say I progress in strength in everything, 100% of the time... when I train for it. There is a limit to hand strength training, and that's the number of feats you can advance in at the same time. I havn't progressed in bending recently, as I havn't bent big steel in a few months. My current goals are to get certified on the #3, and I'm getting better every day. My training is closing my easier #3 about 3 times a day, and closing my harder #3 once a day. Every week day.

I never recall getting weaker from one work out to the next. It's usually the oposite. Some times I feel sore and sorry for my self, but I can still match or break PR's in at least one lift that day.

For the body, once a week is fine for me. I'll stick to that plan until I stop lifting. But for grip, I'll train Monday morning to Saturday morning, probably until I'm unable to keep doing it. As of now, I do not see a single negative impact of high volume training, and from my experience I've found it to be the best, if not the only, way to train grip.

[Sean Dockery]

I dunno if anyone's mentioned this to you, ianders. But you might want to check out this link..http://www.handhealth.com/ lots of stuff on rehabbing the hands. You mentioned hand pain.

[ianders1]

bender,

Thank you for taking the time to really answer my questions - definitely the kind of advice and insight that I was hoping to get. You've definitely been a huge help in getting my grip training started. Thank you.

I'll have to write more comments later because my hands are really starting to bother me from all the typing.

Thanks again to everyone who has responded.

[John Wood]

I use HIT. I only train my grip for 15 minutes a week. The results speak for themselves.

[JasonL]

I found more volume to better somewhat. Have to cycle a bit. I know If I do grippers all day a lot, then I will have bad pain and other exercises will fail.

I do 2 finger deadlifts every 2-3 months and always get stronger.

Some exercises one can do more and some do less. Depends, have to find out what works for one self

Jay