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What sets top crushers apart?


AdriaanRobert96

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1 hour ago, C8Myotome said:

I'm not going to claim to be a true expert on biomechanics cause I'm not (compared to those that are & specialize in it), but from what I know the cross-section of forearm muscle in terms of thickness provides more adjacent contractile proteins that can produce a higher force (Neumann), so a thicker muscle can produce a higher force than a longer muscle, even if otherwise the same exact biomass is used. Pennation angle also plays a role in how efficient muscle fibers can be, and yes genetics can pre-determine whether you are slow twitch or fast twitch dominant, although this can of course be adjusted based on the type of training you do as well. And yes insertion points will of course play a role, our muscles generally insert into the same places but people have different bone lenghts which is what gives us such differences in moment arms (although people do still have different insertion points that are more or less efficient, look at how many people have a gap below their biceps, & so on). Also a grip muscle the palmaris longus is absent in 1/4 of people, which contributes to thumb and pinky opposition as well as overall hand thickness

Awh man I love this “nerdy” stuff😂

We would get along very well because of this ;)

Love all the facts you bring up.

Had to Google the Palmaris Longus to get an idea..

Also, would it be possible even the slightest to make a change in type of fibers of the hand based on the way you train?

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1 hour ago, climber511 said:

#1 and probably #2 as well is Genetics.

#3 Size and anatomy of the driving muscles of forearm and hand along with training consistency and recovery.

#??? The nerve enervation of those muscles.  Or the ability to fire a higher percentage of fibers than others.  Guys like Andrew Durniant (and perhaps to a much smaller degree myself and others) are able to utilize a higher percentage of ones potential strength.  A guy like Chez has bigger forearms than my upper arm and it is my belief that this gives him much greater “potential” strength than my 12.5” forearm – he also has that freaky fast twitch thing going on.  And yet I was still able to close (choked to parallel) a 195# COC #4 gripper – and Andrew has one of the higher gripper closes ever with a considerably smaller arm than for example Chez.  My explanation (which might of course be all wrong) is that guys like Andrew and myself can utilize a higher percentage of what we have.  It is my belief that this is genetic as well.

So many factors, that’s why a study would be so interesting to see😅

 

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Clearly "genetics" (or whatever you want to call it, but I mean the body you are given to work with) is a MAJOR component.  The most perfect mental attitude and workout regimen will not allow a small-framed, short-fingered woman to certify on the COC 4, whereas Carl Meyerscough does have that potential (and Chez, and some of you reading this -- maybe some or most will never chase that feat for all they are worth, but some may well have it in them).  For those folks, the mental composition and health and all come into play.  We can dicker about where the cutoffs are -- is the feat something that the person might achieve with sufficient work, or is it just impossible no matter what they do?  I am not saying that we should all be defeatists and give up.  We may surprise ourselves and do more than we thought we could.  But it's silly to say that anyone can do anything.  Our bodies are machines, and machines have limits.  The people with the best crush have the best crush machines and honed those machines the best.

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6 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Clearly "genetics" (or whatever you want to call it, but I mean the body you are given to work with) is a MAJOR component.  The most perfect mental attitude and workout regimen will not allow a small-framed, short-fingered woman to certify on the COC 4, whereas Carl Meyerscough does have that potential (and Chez, and some of you reading this -- maybe some or most will never chase that feat for all they are worth, but some may well have it in them).  For those folks, the mental composition and health and all come into play.  We can dicker about where the cutoffs are -- is the feat something that the person might achieve with sufficient work, or is it just impossible no matter what they do?  I am not saying that we should all be defeatists and give up.  We may surprise ourselves and do more than we thought we could.  But it's silly to say that anyone can do anything.  Our bodies are machines, and machines have limits.  The people with the best crush have the best crush machines and honed those machines the best.

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

 

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This is a interesting discussion and I would love to have more data on the hand sizes/forearm sizes of coc 4 closers. I think you would start to see some similarities if you saw this data on top closers. I don't think hand length is everything though as Jedd Johnson for example(who is probably top 5 greatest grip athletes ever) doesn't have a huge close considering the many top level grip feats he has done and he has large hands. 

 

Off the top of my head here is a list of people who have closed a coc 4 

Nathan Holle
Dave Morton
Tommy Heslep
Paul Knight
Josh Dale
Steve Gardener
Aaron Corcorran
Juha Harju

Cesare Ricchezz,

Clay Edgin,

 Andrew Durniat

Sergey Daragan

Morgan Choi

Ioan Cristian Puscasu

 Gabriele(cancrusher) -did as a teen and inverted-

 Kupinsky Igor

Ivan Cuk-did as a teen-

David Shamey

Jonathan Vogt 

magnus samuelsson

 

I'm probably missing a lot but one thing is many of these athletes are bigger (200+ lbs many near 300 lbs) with large hands (8+ inches length and I imagine 10+ inch span). 

 

I know in my case I'm similar to what Jalen mentioned in that having a larger body my starting strength was higher. I think this is just due to the fact that being bigger I hold more muscle then someone smaller even without really training for it. I also don't think just top end strength is all that matters as strength to weight ratio is also really important and reflected in other strength sports like olympic weightlifting and powerlifting.(I mean naim süleymanoğlu in olympic weightlifting is arguably the goat and lamar grant the goat in powerlifting both lighter lifters) Being really strong and maximizing a lighter body is amazing. Seeing guys like Tanner Merkle or Andrew Durniat beat 300+ lb pro strongman in grip feats is why I find this sport so interesting. The same goes with arm wrestling with seeing back in the day john brzenk beat giant men. Also top end crush isn't everything in grip and sometimes a large hand makes you weaker in other events which is why having varied events in contest is so important and why I think the NAGS is a great contest and the medley is such a fun event to watch where you can expose some grip weaknesses. 

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Oh dang that’s crazy, I know just a handful of all those people tbh.

Like you said, a lot of people are at a very high weight like 300+ and while it doesn’t take away from the achievement..

I’ve alway been even more so impressed by the insane weight to strength ratio athletes in any sport😅

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14 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Oh dang that’s crazy, I know just a handful of all those people tbh.

Like you said, a lot of people are at a very high weight like 300+ and while it doesn’t take away from the achievement..

I’ve alway been even more so impressed by the insane weight to strength ratio athletes in any sport😅

I find it all impressive but I think it's good to see what other people are doing in your weight class for motivation. Like to me lamar gants 5x bodyweight deadlift is just as impressive as eddie halls 500kg deadlift. 

http://www.az-grip.com/lists2.php?list=3&gender=1&event=8&country=all&measurement=1

I don't know if Aaron Corcorran still updates this but I always enjoyed looking at top lifts for particular events to gauge what is possible and to try and shoot for top 10 marks in a particular event. 

In the end we are all here to get stronger regardless of where we start or how far we can get. Grip is still a new sport and I find it interesting how varied it can be and how new training methods lead to good results. I am much more interested in learning how top lifters in any weight class train to try and learn to get stronger myself. 

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52 minutes ago, Stephen Ruby said:

I find it all impressive but I think it's good to see what other people are doing in your weight class for motivation. Like to me lamar gants 5x bodyweight deadlift is just as impressive as eddie halls 500kg deadlift. 

http://www.az-grip.com/lists2.php?list=3&gender=1&event=8&country=all&measurement=1

I don't know if Aaron Corcorran still updates this but I always enjoyed looking at top lifts for particular events to gauge what is possible and to try and shoot for top 10 marks in a particular event. 

In the end we are all here to get stronger regardless of where we start or how far we can get. Grip is still a new sport and I find it interesting how varied it can be and how new training methods lead to good results. I am much more interested in learning how top lifters in any weight class train to try and learn to get stronger myself. 

Yup yup😎Always learning, always improving for sure!

5x bodyweight is just out of this world!

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