What sets top crushers apart?

[AdriaanRobert96]

Always wondered what sets big crushers apart from the rest of us mortals

So besides genetics, which is a given.. what else do you think or believe sets them apart.

I know programming plays a pretty important role with good recovery kept in mind.

Hand structure?

What do you think all these people have in common?

Spark a convo, would be interesting to read your thoughts

[dubyagrip]

Willpower, discipline, and consistency

[AdriaanRobert96]

5 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

Willpower, discipline, and consistency

A given

[dubyagrip]

1 minute ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

A given

I'm not convinced people truly understand what those things are or require in practice, though.  We would all like to think we have these intangible qualities but being humble and honest enough to accurately examine ourselves and develop them is more difficult than any gripper we could get our hands on.

[Chez]

23 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

Willpower, discipline, and consistency

I mean this and genetics is pretty much it. You can only train hard and smart and/or also be genetically gifted. If you got both, that’s how records are set in all sports…

[AdriaanRobert96]

20 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

I'm not convinced people truly understand what those things are or require in practice, though.  We would all like to think we have these intangible qualities but being humble and honest enough to accurately examine ourselves and develop them is more difficult than any gripper we could get our hands on.

Amen to that, very well said.

Especially when hitting plateaus, that’s when all really plays an even bigger part.

[AdriaanRobert96]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

I mean this and genetics is pretty much it. You can only train hard and smart and/or also be genetically gifted. If you got both, that’s how records are set in all sports…

Truth, although I was referring more to the genetic side..

For example, what does having good genetics on grippers for example mean?

Just getting very reasearchy (pretty sure that’s not a word)

Not sure if this even has been studied, but what would be different in the hands of a good crusher, thickness, mass, the bone structure?

Don’t mind me, just being a maniac

 

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Truth, although I was referring more to the genetic side..

For example, what does having good genetics on grippers for example mean?

Just getting very reasearchy (pretty sure that’s not a word)

Not sure if this even has been studied, but what would be different in the hands of a good crusher, thickness, mass, the bone structure?

Don’t mind me, just being a maniac

 

I am one of those guys who has great crush genetics and I think it may be that I have more fast twitch fibers in the forearms like how super fast or super high jumpers have in their legs. People how often comments on the speed of my closes and how I trained for it but it honestly just comes naturally. I also think hand geometry may factor in results in optimal leverages like how some people have great leverages for the squat deadlift or bench 

[AdriaanRobert96]

Just now, Chez said:

I am one of those guys who has great crush genetics and I think it may be that I have more fast twitch fibers in the forearms like how super fast or super high jumpers have in their legs. People how often comments on the speed of my closes and how I trained for it but it honestly just comes naturally. I also think hand geometry may factor in results in optimal leverages like how some people have great leverages for the squat deadlift or bench 

Owh is that so?

Very interesting, and I totally get the fast twitch idea..

Where can I see your closes if I may ask, YT, IG?

Would love to see what you’ve done, always motivating to see others progress aswell

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Owh is that so?

Very interesting, and I totally get the fast twitch idea..

Where can I see your closes if I may ask, YT, IG?

Would love to see what you’ve done, always motivating to see others progress aswell

Google Cesare Ricchezza. I’m mashmonster 7 right hand, level 2 left hand. Coc 3 certified. Mm set closed some coc 4s

Edited March 22, 2023 by Chez

[Chez]

Here is my YouTube channel. It’s not my original sadly since that got hacked so I lost a lot of progess vids

 

 

[AdriaanRobert96]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

Google Cesare Ricchezza. I’m mashmonster 7 right hand, level 2 left hand. Coc 3 certified. Mm set closed some coc 4s

Dang, respect for all that work and achievements

[AdriaanRobert96]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

Here is my YouTube channel. It’s not my original sadly since that got hacked so I lost a lot of progess vids

 

 

Sorry to hear that, I’ll definitely watch nowThanks

[AdriaanRobert96]

@Chez So your YT channed basically tells me your a fricking beast

What’s your weight and height?

 

[dubyagrip]

I certainly haven't come close to anything @Chez and his peers have done, yet, but I've only been training since September of 2022.  I'm #3 certified and MM2.  I have a very large hand, and strength training has always come naturally and enjoyably for me.  I've always been a larger guy too.  6' 265ish without any real effort to gain weight or muscle.  I will reach the mid to upper levels of the MM ladder. I'll be going for the #3.5 cert soon.  My closes are slower than what you typically see.  I generate a slow, steady pressure.  I'm not an expert on the anatomy of the hand and forearm, but perhaps @C8Myotome can weigh in on what anatomical features lend themselves well to crushing power.  Also, I train much more than grippers, so I think having balanced strength throughout the entire body goes a long way to never hitting brutal plateaus.

Edited March 22, 2023 by dubyagrip

[C8Myotome]

Some people are just built different, or have a much higher level of neuromuscular skill potential to access. For instance I'll never slam dunk a basketball but there's people who can do this effortlessly all day. Also nature vs nurture...genetics helps but your upbringing can determine a lot too (what diet did you grow up on, what kind of physical work did you do etc). Some people also train HARD and some people really baby themselves. So a lot goes into it

[DoctorOfCrush]

To say it is multifactorial is an understatement. As others have mentioned, genetics play a large part, and I think that what you have done to capitalize upon genetic potential also plays an equally important role. One thing I wonder about is the role that activities performed during puberty have on setting your eventually strength and athletic ability ceilings once you have fully developed. I was essentially sedentary during much of my pubertal years and did not begin any sports or strength training until later on in development. I wonder what my capabilities could look like if I had taken more advantage of strength and athletic training during the time of peak hormonal assistance. I feel like this could have a large effect not only on obvious things like mass development but also tendon strength and neuromuscular coordination. It would, of course, not change my genetics or my genetic potential, but it may more fully realize that genetic potential. 

I think, like others have mentioned, that anthropometry also plays a huge part. We often talk about hand size in general (there are many threads devoted to it), but there are also considerations to be made about metacarpal length (roughly establishing the palm shape/size), phalangeal length (especially the proximal phalange), and placement of the thumb joint as these establish the leverage points, as Chez alluded to earlier. I also wonder about whether things like forearm length, muscle belly:tendon ratios, and insertion placements play a role. 

Other things include pain tolerance, skin plasticity and toughness, and predilection for an inflammatory state, all of which contribute to one's ability to maintain programming. 

The last thing I'll mention is the mental aspect. We all know gripping can be a grind. Plateaus can be demoralizing. It takes mental fortitude and long-sightedness to see those through. 

[AdriaanRobert96]

33 minutes ago, dubyagrip said:

I certainly haven't come close to anything @Chez and his peers have done, yet, but I've only been training since September of 2022.  I'm #3 certified and MM2.  I have a very large hand, and strength training has always come naturally and enjoyably for me.  I've always been a larger guy too.  6' 265ish without any real effort to gain weight or muscle.  I will reach the mid to upper levels of the MM ladder. I'll be going for the #3.5 cert soon.  My closes are slower than what you typically see.  I generate a slow, steady pressure.  I'm not an expert on the anatomy of the hand and forearm, but perhaps @C8Myotome can weigh in on what anatomical features lend themselves well to crushing power.  Also, I train much more than grippers, so I think having balanced strength throughout the entire body goes a long way to never hitting brutal plateaus.

Yup, definitely saw that mad strength of yours.. was checking out Chez YT and your came up as recommend 
 

You’ll have that #3.5 without a doubt!

[AdriaanRobert96]

33 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

Some people are just built different, or have a much higher level of neuromuscular skill potential to access. For instance I'll never slam dunk a basketball but there's people who can do this effortlessly all day. Also nature vs nurture...genetics helps but your upbringing can determine a lot too (what diet did you grow up on, what kind of physical work did you do etc). Some people also train HARD and some people really baby themselves. So a lot goes into it

Well put

[AdriaanRobert96]

14 minutes ago, DoctorOfCrush said:

To say it is multifactorial is an understatement. As others have mentioned, genetics play a large part, and I think that what you have done to capitalize upon genetic potential also plays an equally important role. One thing I wonder about is the role that activities performed during puberty have on setting your eventually strength and athletic ability ceilings once you have fully developed. I was essentially sedentary during much of my pubertal years and did not begin any sports or strength training until later on in development. I wonder what my capabilities could look like if I had taken more advantage of strength and athletic training during the time of peak hormonal assistance. I feel like this could have a large effect not only on obvious things like mass development but also tendon strength and neuromuscular coordination. It would, of course, not change my genetics or my genetic potential, but it may more fully realize that genetic potential. 

I think, like others have mentioned, that anthropometry also plays a huge part. We often talk about hand size in general (there are many threads devoted to it), but there are also considerations to be made about metacarpal length (roughly establishing the palm shape/size), phalangeal length (especially the proximal phalange), and placement of the thumb joint as these establish the leverage points, as Chez alluded to earlier. I also wonder about whether things like forearm length, muscle belly:tendon ratios, and insertion placements play a role. 

Other things include pain tolerance, skin plasticity and toughness, and predilection for an inflammatory state, all of which contribute to one's ability to maintain programming. 

The last thing I'll mention is the mental aspect. We all know gripping can be a grind. Plateaus can be demoralizing. It takes mental fortitude and long-sightedness to see those through. 

Holy cow, I really appreciate the depth you went to with this

You basically brought up everything that plays a role.

Love your thoughts on the time during puberty, as for myself I’ve been slacking up until 13 and went literally nuts from 13 and up, doing everything and anything activity wise

[Chez]

50 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

@Chez So your YT channed basically tells me your a fricking beast

What’s your weight and height?

 

Thanks. I’m 6’2” and my normal weight is around 290-295 but because of work And lack of gym time lately I’m heavier and like 315 at the moment. Just started training again 

[C8Myotome]

1 hour ago, dubyagrip said:

I certainly haven't come close to anything @Chez and his peers have done, yet, but I've only been training since September of 2022.  I'm #3 certified and MM2.  I have a very large hand, and strength training has always come naturally and enjoyably for me.  I've always been a larger guy too.  6' 265ish without any real effort to gain weight or muscle.  I will reach the mid to upper levels of the MM ladder. I'll be going for the #3.5 cert soon.  My closes are slower than what you typically see.  I generate a slow, steady pressure.  I'm not an expert on the anatomy of the hand and forearm, but perhaps @C8Myotome can weigh in on what anatomical features lend themselves well to crushing power.  Also, I train much more than grippers, so I think having balanced strength throughout the entire body goes a long way to never hitting brutal plateaus.

I'm not going to claim to be a true expert on biomechanics cause I'm not (compared to those that are & specialize in it), but from what I know the cross-section of forearm muscle in terms of thickness provides more adjacent contractile proteins that can produce a higher force (Neumann), so a thicker muscle can produce a higher force than a longer muscle, even if otherwise the same exact biomass is used. Pennation angle also plays a role in how efficient muscle fibers can be, and yes genetics can pre-determine whether you are slow twitch or fast twitch dominant, although this can of course be adjusted based on the type of training you do as well. And yes insertion points will of course play a role, our muscles generally insert into the same places but people have different bone lenghts which is what gives us such differences in moment arms (although people do still have different insertion points that are more or less efficient, look at how many people have a gap below their biceps, & so on). Also a grip muscle the palmaris longus is absent in 1/4 of people, which contributes to thumb and pinky opposition as well as overall hand thickness

[Cannon]

11 minutes ago, C8Myotome said:

so a thicker muscle can produce a higher force than a longer muscle, even if otherwise the same exact biomass is used.

This is interesting, I had wondered about this. 

[climber511]

#1 and probably #2 as well is Genetics.

#3 Size and anatomy of the driving muscles of forearm and hand along with training consistency and recovery.

#??? The nerve enervation of those muscles.  Or the ability to fire a higher percentage of fibers than others.  Guys like Andrew Durniant (and perhaps to a much smaller degree myself and others) are able to utilize a higher percentage of ones potential strength.  A guy like Chez has bigger forearms than my upper arm and it is my belief that this gives him much greater “potential” strength than my 12.5” forearm – he also has that freaky fast twitch thing going on.  And yet I was still able to close (choked to parallel) a 195# COC #4 gripper – and Andrew has one of the higher gripper closes ever with a considerably smaller arm than for example Chez.  My explanation (which might of course be all wrong) is that guys like Andrew and myself can utilize a higher percentage of what we have.  It is my belief that this is genetic as well.

[AdriaanRobert96]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Thanks. I’m 6’2” and my normal weight is around 290-295 but because of work And lack of gym time lately I’m heavier and like 315 at the moment. Just started training again 

Mad strong