Ruminations on possibility, limits, and perseverance

[Vinnie]

In late 2021 I achieved a personal goal that really meant a lot to me when I certed the COC 3.  In my life, mostly academic and professional, it was the only physical goal I ever spent a significant amount of time and effort chasing.  It took me years to attain, and until very close to attaining it, I remained unsure whether it was within the limits of my potential.  Now I am choosing a new goal, and I am interested in a discussion about our limits.  I would find such a discussion interesting in itself because I respect the diversity of experience and attitudes on the Grip Board, but it also might help me in choosing a new goal for myself that pushes my limits but is not so remote that it is folly to chase it.

This is a long post, and just for fun.  Let's go.

For starters, I don't think the COC 3.5 cert should be my next goal.  I see a lot of posts where people offer platitudes like, "You can do anything if you set your mind to it," "If you try hard enough, you will succeed," "there are no limits," etc.  So for me, a few people have said, "Well, now go for the 3.5."

I disagree completely.  There absolutely are limits.  The limits are not the same for everyone, but just to start from the absurd:  No human is going to bench press 2,000 pounds, or curl 1000 pounds, or run a mile in one minute, or close a COC 4 no set with two fingers.  K?  Can we just get that out of the way?  There are limits.  And on the other end, we can select goals easy enough that we can all agree ANY normal human can, at least if he or she tries, attain them:  close a COC Sport; bench 20 pounds; run a mile in an hour.  There was an old story about someone (maybe Joe Kinney) saying just add an ounce a day to your (squat, deadlift, bench, whatever), and you will always be able to do the next day -- but of course, however easy that may be for however many hundred days, after some years you have added 20 pounds per year and you are not adding 400 pounds to your bench in 20 years, so there are limits, we just don't always know where they are.

So I think the more relevant inquiry is to DISCOVER one's limits, by engaging in that very same effort that some people say will get you anything you desire.

What I think does happen is that, with great effort and determination, many of us accomplish things we THOUGHT were or might be beyond our limits, but by the hard work and perseverance and belief in ourselves, we discovered were not.

That is my view of where training, judgment, and perseverance kind of combine to reach success.

My personal journey in grip (which I don't mean to suggest is over) has been a bit of the above.  I started fiddling with grippers and realized I was not bad at them, so I thought, hey, maybe I can get to the point where I can certify on the COC 3.  But I was only closing the 2 at the time, and I was not sure I would ever be able to close a 3 at all, let alone by CCS.  I just didn't know one way or the other, so I enjoyed all kinds of grip implements and comps, but the only thing I actually paid attention to training was grippers.  For four years.  And in the first few months I got from the 2 to the 2.5.  And then I met my grip friends and the grip board and started getting more grippers and trying harder, and by the end of another year I was MMS closing some COC 3s but not the harder ones.  And I got MM0.  And then after another year I was MMS closing any COC 3 I could find, and I got MM1, and friends started telling me if only I tried I could get the COC3 cert.  And I didn't say of course I can or no I can't, I still said I don't know and kept going.  And in maybe another year I got MM2 and thought, hey, I used to wonder whether MM2 or COC 3 cert would be harder, and here I am already MM2, let me really push for that COC 3 cert.  and in a few more months I was CCS closing my easier COC 3s, and then a couple months later my harder ones, and I drew in a breath and sent for the cert.  And -- about 4 or 5 years after closing my first 2 and 2.5, I certed the 3.

And by the above, I don't mean to say that hey, I've reached my absolute limit and no way I can do anything more.  I absolutely believe that if I care to push myself in a single-mindedly gripper direction, I could still get a little stronger in grippers.  Sure I could.  There was no magic decree from heaven that now that I certed, I will never get any better at grippers no matter what I do.

I am EXTREMELY proud of what I've done so far; it is probably the one single personal accomplishment of my life of which I am MOST proud and which brought me the most satisfaction because I so doggedly pursued it for so long, and then got it.  Some people will never be able to do this feat, others find it much easier than I did and move on to bigger ones.  For me, it was an ideal challenge.

But let's be real.  I am NEVER, EVER, EVER going to be capable of CCS closing a COC 4, and probably not a 3.5.  I am gonna be 54 in April, I weighed 182 pounds this morning with a pretty big pot belly (I am only 5' 6 and my ideal weight is probably 155), and I trained for YEARS -- YEARS -- to achieve the COC 3 cert.  My gains have been slow and incremental after the quick newbie gains, and they were getting slower and more incremental the closer I got to the IM cert.  Even if I continued to strive and to make gains without slowing further as I reach my body's potential and continue to age, it would obviously take several more years to improve enough to look at the 3.5 cert.  And years more after that for the 4.

So why do people say "there is no limit" - "you can do it if you try" - "nothing is impossible"?

I think what they are really capturing in those kinds of platitudes is something different, something more like, "you can do more than you think," "you won't know if you don't try," and "you should find out what's possible."  Because in the end, they have to know that some things really are not possible -- instead, they are telling you not to give up the journey, because you don't yet know what YOUR limit is.  Because if I had given up when I closed my COC 2, back when I thought my COC 3 felt like a brick that there was no way I would ever hold the handles together with one hand (I honestly wondered how any human could ever close that gripper with any depth of set), I would never have found out that it was possible for me.  Years later, I DID CCS close that very same gripper and then DID the cert that I wondered whether it was possible (for me).

But there is judgment involved.  I am not devoting my life to certing the COC 3.5 or 4.  I'm not stupid.  I thought the COC 3 might be beyond my capability but I wasn't sure; I knew that was an honest debate about reasonable limits and I pushed it and made it.  For me, that was reasonable, and because I made it, it would be reasonable to set another, harder goal and strive for it.  In my mind, even the COC 3.5 cert is not that goal -- I don't think there is any future in which I can accomplish even that.  It would not be unreasonable to try, and I can't say that no matter what I do I could never achieve that, but I really don't think so.  I didn't say that about the 3 -- I just wondered whether it was possible.  But I also have judgment, and I don't think the 3.5 cert is actually within my body's capability (and I 100 per cent know the COC 4 isn't!).  I think that if I did pursue the COC 3.5, or the MM3, I would indeed improve my gripper closes a bit for a while.  But not enough.  And the devotion of that much of my remaining time on this world to that goal does not seem like a good choice.

Do people disagree with this assessment, in general?

I am still trying to decide on a next goal, and have been thinking about this for a year or so since my COC 3 cert.  This is important to me because I really enjoy grip sports, and part of that enjoyment was chasing the 3.  I want a new thing to chase.  I don't think the 3.5 is it.  I may occupy myself with going for a few reps on GHP 7, but that doesn't captivate me the way the 3 cert did.

What is worth chasing?  Maybe the Inch?  My best circus bell lifts have been in the 140s, and my best RT in the 170 range.  But I never trained Inch or RT more than doing a few sets at other people's houses once in a while in an inconsistent way.  There may be enough potential there, and lifting the Inch at a body weight of about that same weight, in my 50s, would be a hoot about equal to the COC 3 cert I think (maybe actually rarer, but since I love grippers, it might still only be equal in my mind).

Anyway, I am posting here both to ignite a discussion about possibilities, and also for suggestions and motivation as to a new goal.  I actually would like to ignite some fire in me, to get myself focused on a goal again.

I don't think it is helpful (or correct) to say "nothing is impossible."  A few famous quotations say that in some way or another, and I don't take that seriously, because obviously some things really are impossible.  A few sayings I found about this topic that I think capture my overall view that we should have some goals, that we should use some judgment in choosing the right goals for ourselves, and that we should work hard and expect to achieve at some and fail at some and keep trying:

“The greater danger for most of us isn’t that our aim is too high and miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.”– Michelangelo

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”– Albert Einstein

“If you aim for nothing, you'll hit it every time.” – Unknown

“We aim above the mark to hit the mark.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.” — Arthur Ashe

“You should set goals beyond your reach so you always have something to live for.” — Ted Turner

“Set realistic goals, keep re-evaluating, and be consistent.” — Venus Williams

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress." — Frederick Douglass

“You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.” — Wayne Gretzky

“In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed.”– Sid Caeser

“You don't have to be a fantastic hero to do certain things — to compete. You can be just an ordinary chap, sufficiently motivated to reach challenging goals.” — Edmund Hillary

“Each of you, as an individual, must pick your own goals. Listen to others, but do not become a blind follower.” – Thurgood Marshall

A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.” – Bruce Lee

AND MY FAVORITE:

“The goal is not to be better than the other man, but your previous self.” – Dalai Lama

 

 

[climber511]

Great post and a topic I have spent a LOT of time thinking about - no doubt more than I should.  I'll type up some thoughts when I have more time.  Things change as the years roll by and this needs to be considered.  I struggle with this daily.

[John Knowlton]

Hey Vinnie great post. Made me think about my own personal goals.

[climber511]

Vinnie

I’m obviously an experiment of one so your experience will no doubt vary.  I started grip in 2003 at the age of 55 after decades of overall lifting and decades of climbing.  My best competition results seemed to be from about 60 to 65 depending on event so I topped out after 5 to 10 years of grip training.  I managed to hold on to fairly good results up thru 69 -70 and even at 74 now I do OK depending on event (but still on a gradual downhill slide on everything).  My big muscle strength is down a good bit but pinch especially is holding up.  Axle DL was always held back by my regular DL not being all that much stronger and that is worse now that my regular dead lift is down maybe 60 to 80 pounds from my best grip days and down 130 to 150 pounds from my all time best.  My work life and hobbies plus perhaps a little natural affinity for grip I feel helped me.  I do think you can make progress at your age (I don’t see your age topping you out yet) – I think you probably have around ten years of “possible grip gains” but like you say there is a personal “top”.  Those things that you have already pushed hard (like grippers) more than likely don’t have as much upside left as things you haven’t devoted as much time and effort to.  A harder gripper may be there but maybe not that next big jump to 3.5 without pushing the injury risk.  At this point my goal is to “hold on” as best I can – every year trying to see how close I can get to all time personal PRs – it’s always a surprise how some things hold on (sometimes with almost no effort and other things simply go away in no time unless I work them regularly).  One thing I think has helped me is my all around approach and never really specializing on one thing.  Jedd always wanted me to do a period of specializing on grippers but I never did.   An idea might be instead of chasing one goal would be to pick 3 or 4 different things and try to push for multiple PRs.  I believe that keeping up whole body strength is more important than any grip goal – along with aerobic work – this is what will keep you healthy for years to come.

Finding one’s absolute limit is always going to be risky and one needs to be aware of that at all times.

[Stephen Ruby]

I enjoyed reading your personal journey with grip and the effort you needed to demonstrate to reach your goal. 

I will say based off your close and weight class you already have a close in the top 10 for your weight class in grippers closes based off contest results (and the second highest close  in the master category for any weight class)

http://www.az-grip.com/lists2.php?list=3&event=255&country=all&gender=1&measurement=1

 

That is an extremely impressive result and you have already demonstrated to have one of the best crushes given your age and weight in the world. 

 

Discovering your limits is a crucial part of personal growth and achieving your goals. When you push yourself beyond what you thought was possible, you expand your horizons and become more confident in your abilities. However, it's important to approach this process with care and not push yourself too hard or set unattainable goals. Setting goals that are too far out of reach can be discouraging and demotivating. On the other hand, setting goals that are too easy can be equally unfulfilling, as you won't feel like you've really accomplished anything significant. It's important to find a balance between setting achievable goals that will still challenge you and push you out of your comfort zone. Ultimately, the key to discovering your limits and setting achievable goals is to approach the process with patience, persistence, and a willingness to learn and grow. With effort and determination, you can push past your current boundaries and achieve great things.

 

As far as your next goal I would look at contest results in pinch/thick bar for your weight class(as you have already demonstrated an impressive crush feat) and shoot for a top 10 mark in a particular event. The inch is a great goal considering your rolling thunder strength and I don't believe many people around your weight or certainly age have ever lifted it. In fact I wonder how many people sub 200 have ever lifted the inch? Does anyone have statistics on that? 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Stephen Ruby

[Vinnie]

22 minutes ago, Stephen Ruby said:

I wonder how many people sub 200 have ever lifted the inch

I don't know the statistics, but Yves Gravelle lifted it at under 150 pounds!  I think there are a few sub-200, but probably rare.  And to be clear, I am not sure I will choose thaat goal, let alone certain I would achieve it.  But it might be a reasonable goal, a challenge I can strive for without resigning myself to it being impossible, even though it may turn out to be too hard.  It looks about as far off as the COC 3 cert used to look.

And also thank you for the kind words.

[climber511]

30 minutes ago, Stephen Ruby said:

I enjoyed reading your personal journey with grip and the effort you needed to demonstrate to reach your goal. 

I will say based off your close and weight class you already have a close in the top 10 for your weight class in grippers closes based off contest results (and the second highest close  in the master category for any weight class)

http://www.az-grip.com/lists2.php?list=3&event=255&country=all&gender=1&measurement=1

 

That is an extremely impressive result and you have already demonstrated to have one of the best crushes given your age and weight in the world. 

 

Discovering your limits is a crucial part of personal growth and achieving your goals. When you push yourself beyond what you thought was possible, you expand your horizons and become more confident in your abilities. However, it's important to approach this process with care and not push yourself too hard or set unattainable goals. Setting goals that are too far out of reach can be discouraging and demotivating. On the other hand, setting goals that are too easy can be equally unfulfilling, as you won't feel like you've really accomplished anything significant. It's important to find a balance between setting achievable goals that will still challenge you and push you out of your comfort zone. Ultimately, the key to discovering your limits and setting achievable goals is to approach the process with patience, persistence, and a willingness to learn and grow. With effort and determination, you can push past your current boundaries and achieve great things.

 

As far as your next goal I would look at contest results in pinch/thick bar for your weight class(as you have already demonstrated an impressive crush feat) and shoot for a top 10 mark in a particular event. The inch is a great goal considering your rolling thunder strength and I don't believe many people around your weight or certainly age have ever lifted it. In fact I wonder how many people sub 200 have ever lifted the inch? Does anyone have statistics on that? 

The only two sub 200# I can think of are Bruce White and Bob Sundin - there may be others of course.

[Climber028]

When I saw no limit, I mean that getting pretty close to world records is possible, and for a few people their limits will exceed that and become the new record, of course nobody is benching 2,000 pounds that's silly.

 

I believe you and I can both cert the 3.5, and I can't even close a 3, not even close. It's just because I don't train grippers but there is no physical limit preventing me, and there isn't for you either. 

[Blacksmith513]

Great read @Vinnie.. What you say is pretty spot on.  I get the feeling you want to lift the inch.. You CAN do it.  It will take a while... But you will do it.  I'm training for it,  I doubt I can get there this year but I'm hoping next year...  

 

I think very realistically, and i'm not a dreamer.. So if I know i can't do something I don't even think about it or dream about it. Become a doctor, become a rock star, marry a model.... Stuff I want to do, like lifting the inch, bending a red nail or getting to Slim the Hammerman weights with the sledge.  The thought of not doing it doesn't cross my mind. I know I will do it.  After several months now, I have even more respect for the inch than i did before... Much harder than thought it would be..

Another thing I will add, I never thought levering sledgehammers was crazy or really even dangerous until I recently asked guys on the job if they want to try. Nobody has the guts and they are afraid of breaking their nose.. That thought has hardly ever crossed my mind. That must be because I know and feel comfortable about my limit.

 

Dont know if that answers your question or not. But long story short, I guess I know my limits and feel confident about them. 

 

@Stephen RubyI'd like to know as well..  I'm about 175lbs right now.. Have Jedd as my coach, he's not concerned about my weight..  I'd really like to lift it around this weight. But I must bulk up a little, I eat a ton as it is, but started eating more and it's helping with my recovery. 

 

*edit* when I say Slim levels, I'm not sure I could break his world record or even setting out too... He was much taller than me, and worked with sledgehammers.  Those both play a factor,  but I'd like to get as close to his numbers as possible... But who knows maybe i'll double lever 60lbs+ some day.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Blacksmith513

[dubyagrip]

@Vinnie this is a great topic.

I think about potential often.

I lead a team of engineers in my professional life, and their potential is something I'm always trying to maximize.  I am not only doing it because it is my job.  I do it because I care about people, I'm a leader, and I love seeing potential being realized.  These are things I never had.

I have two kids, and I'm constantly paying attention to every little thing they do to recognize where their strengths and natural talents are.  I do this because I want to give them an opportunity to get a head-start on realizing fulfillment in their lives.  This is something I never had.

I look at myself, a mentally unstable behemoth of a human being who never had support or opportunity until much later in life.  However, what I do have are genetics and willpower.

When I look at what I'm doing in a short time of dedicating training to grip, I'm realizing that it is a perfect union of opportunity, interest, support, willpower, and genetics.  I'm not saying I'm going to be the greatest of all time or anything like that, but my ceiling is high.  All of these pieces listed above are very important.  We only have some control over two of these variables: interest and willpower.  Genetics come from our parents.  Opportunity is determined by fate, but one could argue opportunity can be created with  preparation and awareness. I joined gripboard, because I needed support from likeminded people who know the struggle and the pain our little niche sport presents.

What am I getting at?

You have the interest.  You have the opportunity.  You clearly have the willpower.  You obviously have support.

You're openly questioning your genetic potential, which I don't really need to call out since you did it yourself, but I believe this added context of the other variables can help you decide on what you need to do to find your target and the motivation to reach it.

Think about how unlikely it is for all of these components to line up?  When it happens, we get Michael Jordan, Ronnie Coleman, Lebron James, etc.,  I don't know your genetic potential, but let's say your genetics suck... You still have 4 out of the 5 things you need to realize something incredible (which you already have, you captain of crush).  This doesn't mean you can accomplish the impossible, but it does mean you have a lot more in the tank than you suspect.

There's someone out there who *could* deadlift 1100, hell 1200lbs, but they'll never touch a barbell in their entire life for a multitude of reasons.  Think about that...

Let us know when you figure out your next goal!

Edited March 4, 2023 by dubyagrip

[John Knowlton]

Well put

[PinchByPinch]

New goals: bench press 2000lb, curl 1000lbs, run a mile in one minute and close a COC 4 no set with two fingers. 

I like goals that have crossover benefit whether or not you achieve them in the end. I like that with climbing, even if I fail on my project, I'm still getting the exercise of walking to the crag, full body workout trying the climb, being outdoors etc. 

I live in Tasmania and there are 158 mountains above 1100m (~3609ft) - I've hiked up 38 of them and for me it's a really good long-term goal as I get satisfaction from ticking off every single one along the way, finishing a whole 'section' (like North East) and knowing that it is possible but still requires dedication and perseverance (only 27 people have completed it so far).

Good luck with whatever you choose!

[Vinny F]

Interesting post Vinnie. Thanks for sharing. 

I think both sides are valid perspectives..

Depends how much you read into the words and the type of person you are to draw your game plan.  Some don't want to set limits on their potential.  

I developed much of my mindset from my years with Dr. Ken....As he first told me decades ago as a teenager, and I heard him tell countless other strength athletes, especially those who didn't know what it meant to truly work hard.....

If you're serious about getting big & strong you need to go in with the mindset that you're going to be a "human wall".  Need to eat and train both relentlessly and progressively and aspire to reach your genetic potential whatever it may be...and that potential should be a solid 350 lbs !!! ...  

Was he serious about 350 lbs? Well, kind of.. (ok, maybe 300 for us smaller height guys), but it forced a mindset change that set clear expectations on what he expected of his lifters and athletes to put in each day and what it would take to drive real change over long term. 

With the end game mindset established first, it then shifted to setting smaller milestones in both weights lifted and bodyweight.  Chipping away..one more rep, 5 more lbs on bar, a few more bites to eat or shake to drink each week. It was progressive, even if not always linear.

Within a decade, with this mindset, at 5'6, I gained nearly 60 lbs and got up to a drug free and solid ~220 lbs and did lifts i never thought possible. Having other like minded strength athletes around helped. 

Even at that level, and to this day, now 20 years after my peak bodyweight & strength...and now down to ~165 lbs for various reasons, I still have the mindset that I should be 350 lbs and lift more than I do.

This mindset still keeps me motivated every time I lift a weight knowing that I'll only have a limited number of training sessions in life and need to maximize it. So, with age, injuries & medical issues...I train as if its still my early years and have unlimited potential.

Pick the lifts that motivate you to train.. That you miss every second you don't do them.

Don't overthink and just go after it.  Relentlessly. 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Vinny F

[Blacksmith513]

31 minutes ago, Vinny F said:

Interesting post Vinnie. Thanks for sharing. 

I think both sides are valid perspectives..

Depends how much you read into the words and the type of person you are to draw your game plan.  Some don't want to set limits on their potential.  

I developed much of my mindset from my years with Dr. Ken....As he first told me decades ago as a teenager, and I heard him tell countless other strength athletes, especially those who didn't know what it meant to truly work hard.....

If you're serious about getting big & strong you need to go in with the mindset that you're going to be a "human wall".  Need to eat and train both relentlessly and progressively and aspire to reach your genetic potential whatever it may be...and that potential should be a solid 350 lbs !!! ...  

Was he serious about 350 lbs? Well, kind of.. (ok, maybe 300 for us smaller height guys), but it forced a mindset change that set clear expectations on what he expected of his lifters and athletes to put in each day and what it would take to drive real change over long term. 

With the end game mindset established first, it then shifted to setting smaller milestones in both weights lifted and bodyweight.  Chipping away..one more rep, 5 more lbs on bar, a few more bites to eat or shake to drink each week. It was progressive, even if not always linear.

Within a decade, with this mindset, at 5'6, I gained nearly 60 lbs and got up to a drug free and solid ~220 lbs and did lifts i never thought possible. Having other like minded strength athletes around helped. 

Even at that level, and to this day, now 20 years after my peak bodyweight & strength...and now down to ~165 lbs for various reasons, I still have the mindset that I should be 350 lbs and lift more than I do.

This mindset still keeps me motivated every time I lift a weight knowing that I'll only have a limited number of training sessions in life and need to maximize it. So, with age, injuries & medical issues...I train as if its still my early years and have unlimited potential.

Pick the lifts that motivate you to train.. That you miss every second you don't do them.

Don't overthink and just go after it.  Relentlessly. 

 

 

 This. You either have it or you dont. If you have it, it never leaves you.

I love to observe and see what makes successful people so successful.. look around at any successful person...  Whether its the man I know that owns 200+apartments paid for, that isnt' smart but worked like a bull, a doctor, or Tom Brady, Schwarzenegger, or Eddie Van Halen, or the elite grip athletes here... People say its luck, right place at right time...

But its the hard work, intensity, and genetics. They all have one thing in common that i've noticed, single minded focus.  You either have it or you dont. I think most people here do because there are some strong members here. 

People laugh at me because i'm young and go to bed early. I laugh at them because i put in couple hours of hard work in the morning before most people take their first leak. I'd prefer to be out partying with my friends every night but achieving goals requires sacrifice. 

Look at David Horne, 60th bday reverse bending a G5 on a neck bridge... I show people that and say i'll be doing the same thing some day and they all say ya right.  You don't get there without that single minded focus.

That being said, when you focus on certain things other things in your life suffer... You need to find that balance.

[Vinnie]

On 3/4/2023 at 3:14 PM, Climber028 said:

 

I believe you and I can both cert the 3.5, and I can't even close a 3, not even close. It's just because I don't train grippers but there is no physical limit preventing me, and there isn't for you either. 

Thank you for the vote of confidence, but at some point there ARE physical limits preventing everyone from certain things.  With regard to the 3.5, I can't say for CERTAIN that I would never be able to CCS an average 3.5, but I can say it with a fair amount of confidence based on how hard I worked to get to CCS closing a 3, the slowing pace of improvement over years, my age, my size, etc.  I am sure that chasing that goal would return some gains in my gripper closes, but that does not mean I would reach a goal that is beyond me -- just that I would get closer to it.  I would rather choose a goal that I remain confident I have a chance at attaining.  You might have a better chance than I do, because you are young, and thin, and don't already train grippers, so even though I am better at grippers than you are now, I don't know that you couldn't surpass me if you made it a goal, worked at it for years, maybe bulking up a bit, etc.  So I won't tell you that I don't think you could do it, but I really don't think I could.

[Vinnie]

42 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Thank you for the vote of confidence, but at some point there ARE physical limits preventing everyone from certain things.  With regard to the 3.5, I can't say for CERTAIN that I would never be able to CCS an average 3.5, but I can say it with a fair amount of confidence based on how hard I worked to get to CCS closing a 3, the slowing pace of improvement over years, my age, my size, etc.  I am sure that chasing that goal would return some gains in my gripper closes, but that does not mean I would reach a goal that is beyond me -- just that I would get closer to it.  I would rather choose a goal that I remain confident I have a chance at attaining.  You might have a better chance than I do, because you are young, and thin, and don't already train grippers, so even though I am better at grippers than you are now, I don't know that you couldn't surpass me if you made it a goal, worked at it for years, maybe bulking up a bit, etc.  So I won't tell you that I don't think you could do it, but I really don't think I could.

Maybe I am a cynic, but it comes down to probability for me.  You know how a movie star will give an interview and tell little wannabes who are waiting tables that all they have to do is follow their dreams and they can succeed, too?  Well, it's not like that.  It's actually more like, if you DON'T chase the dream, you will FAIL.  But chasing the dream is not a guarantee of success, just a prerequisite.  Most of those young actor wannabes do NOT become the next movie star, and just continue waiting tables either forever or until they try something else, but never get into our living rooms.  You just don't get to see them giving advice about how they wished they had finished college, etc. etc., because it was such a longshot (or perhaps that it was worth a shot because now they know they tried).  For some people, that is a risk worth taking, and that's fine.  You gotta be in it to win it, and I sometimes buy a lottery ticket too.  That's not the same as telling people it is going to happen.  Part of success is how you choose your dream to chase.  If I wanted to be an opera star at the Met, that would not be the right dream for me to chase.  I can't achieve that just because I say so.  If I want to win Jennifer Lopez's heart, I can try -- I certainly won't win it if I don't do something to further that end -- but it does not mean that by trying hard enough I will be able to achieve it.  I have to choose the right goal.  If I want to cert the 3, well, that one worked out.  If I wanted to make a mid-career change and become an engineer instead of a lawyer, that would be harder but also probably could do it, at least if I could afford the loss of income.  Choices.

The Inch?  That is the thing that has been creeping into my thoughts.  Difficult, possibly beyond me but maybe not, and something to chase for a bit and see where it goes?

I am going to borrow a circus bell from @temmmeeeelater this month and see if I get a handle on that goal ...

Edited March 5, 2023 by Vinnie

[Blacksmith513]

6 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Maybe I am a cynic, but it comes down to probability for me.  You know how a movie star will give an interview and tell little wannabes who are waiting tables that all they have to do is follow their dreams and they can succeed, too?  Well, it's not like that.  It's actually more like, if you DON'T chase the dream, you will FAIL.  But chasing the dream is not a guarantee of success, just a prerequisite.  Most of those young actor wannabes do NOT become the next movie star, and just continue waiting tables either forever or until they try something else, but never get into our living rooms.  You just don't get to SEE them giving advice.  For some people, that is a risk worth taking, and that's fine.  You gotta be in it to win it, and I sometimes buy a lottery ticket too.  That's not the same as telling people it is going to happen.  Part of success is how you choose your dream to chase.  If I wanted to be an opera star at the Met, that would not be the right dream for me to chase.  I can't achieve that just because I say so.  If I want to win Jennifer Lopez's heart, I can try -- I certainly won't win it if I don't do something to further that end -- but it does not mean that by trying hard enough I will be able to achieve it.  I have to choose the right goal.  If I want to cert the 3, well, that one worked out.  If I wanted to make a mid-career change and become an engineer instead of a layer, that would be harder but also probably could do it, at least if I could afford the loss of income.  Choices.

The Inch?  That is the thing that has been creeping into my thoughts.  Difficult, possibly beyond me but maybe not, and something to chase for a bit and see where it goes?

I am going to borrow a circus bell from @temmmeeeelater this month and see if I get a handle on that goal ...

I’m sure you can train to lift at least the baby inch. Good chance you could do the inch, but worst case scenario you will get very strong at open hand.

[Vinnie]

22 minutes ago, Blacksmith513 said:

I’m sure you can train to lift at least the baby inch. Good chance you could do the inch, but worst case scenario you will get very strong at open hand.

Yeah, I am thinking this is not a ridiculous goal but also not in the bag.  It will be a while if I get there but I should get closer.

[Nuttgens]

I have seen you mention lifting the inch on GripBoard a few times now so I know it’s something your really interested in. For that reason I say do it make that your goal. It’s a super cool feat anyways. Also if you get the strength to lift the inch you would probably be in the realm of doing crushed to dust at that point also so might as well try to get your name on another list.

I would like to try to get my rolling thunder up to 200 and my max is 176 right now so right where you are at. I also would like to cert the 3 one of these days to though. Signed up for a couple grip comps this summer though so focusing more on that right now. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Nuttgens

[dubyagrip]

I was also going to suggest crushed to dust, but I was wanting to make a non-prescriptive point, initially.

[Vinnie]

2 hours ago, dubyagrip said:

I was also going to suggest crushed to dust, but I was wanting to make a non-prescriptive point, initially.

I have heard people say the difficulty of the Inch is comparable to 200 RT.  In fact, maybe I should chase both.

[Nuttgens]

1 hour ago, Vinnie said:

I have heard people say the difficulty of the Inch is comparable to 200 RT.  In fact, maybe I should chase both.

Yeah go after it!

[matek]

Just my opinion:
The "problem" with going after the #3.5 cert is that it would probably take most of the really strong years you have left in grip. And
a) even if you make the necessary sacrifices, have dedication, etc., it's not guaranteed you will get it. I agree; #3.5 CCS is not something that is achievable "just" with dedication and consistent training. 
b) even if you get it, you're already a Captain of Crush, and with your weight, you're already world class in grippers. It would be a huge thing to cert on the #3.5, but it might not feel as good as the #3 cert felt/feels. 

I also think that lifting the inch is a great long-term goal. Obtainable but really hard. As the #3 cert was. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by matek

[Fist of Fury]

5 hours ago, Vinnie said:

I have heard people say the difficulty of the Inch is comparable to 200 RT.  In fact, maybe I should chase both.

I would say lifting the inch db is a much easier feat than COC#3 cert. At least if the #3 you cert with is average or above.

If you lift the DB 100% strict it might be similar to #3 cert but if it's just a lift with a tilt it's much easier to attain.

[Busa]

I think going for an inch is a great goal but it is different to doing grippers. On the plus side as mentioned lifting the inch does have carry over for a few different things compared to closing a gripper.

This is good as one of the aspects of grip training you love is the meets / competition and training for the inch will help in some of the other areas.