bruce1337 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 41 minutes ago, Lennix said: So obviously Ironmind don't like the current style of DO bending and wrapping. They want new wraps not tampered with and perhaps remove DO as style (or well, do at waist level instead of under chin) Since I was closing in on the Gold nail in singles this is a tad boring. I'm hoping Ironmind doesn't kill the Gold completely but it definitly sounds like it. Bending the Gold might be possible in new wraps with only chalk but not with another style of bending. So I am holding my thumbs. "Not tampered with" so is chalking it out the window as well? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennix Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, bruce1337 said: "Not tampered with" so is chalking it out the window as well? Most likely not, but not being used before. And everyone that have bent steel in completely new ironmind wraps know they get alot better with time and usage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 This wording implies they dont want people meticulously wrapping the bar. Rather, they want us to just hotdog wrap the bar and bend it away from the body. Also saying that the "classic" method of bending was done in a certain way and they want to adhere to the classic method is plain stupid. Technique develops over time to maximise training potential. Imagine if the olympics banned hip contact for the clean and snatch and said "classic methods were to just pull the bar overhead with raw shoulder strength and we want to bring this back" Or banning the Fosbury Flop for taking advantage of centre of gravity to manoeuvre around the pole. Imagine FIFA banned modern spiked shoes because the equipment gave the players more friction to run around the field at high speeds. I can go on forever at this point 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Pete Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 11 hours ago, Fist of Fury said: What I don't get is why people even bother with this company anymore. A lot of weak people on the red nail list now. How many DU or reversed their reds when they certed? I bet it wasn't too many. This is confusing to me. Went to Ironmind and checked the cert list. I did not find any weak guys on there. But if you had certed the red I guess you would have been the first weak one on there 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Lennix said: Most likely not, but not being used before. And everyone that have bent steel in completely new ironmind wraps know they get alot better with time and usage. I actually prefer them new. They are much stiffer new and that's better for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stranger Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 8 hours ago, slazbob said: What they are talking about is long overdue. What do you think they should change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennix Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 59 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said: I actually prefer them new. They are much stiffer new and that's better for me. For me and most people I know the wraps being slippery and not gripping the steel makes a huge difference DO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Lennix said: For me and most people I know the wraps being slippery and not gripping the steel makes a huge difference DO That could be an issue but I'm really good at wrapping. I always wrap super hard, to the point my forearms gets exhausted from doing it. You can also put some chalk inside which helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I swear Ironmind is like an 8 year old with a shotgun. They need constant supervision. If you turn around for a second they’ll have accidentally shoot of their own foot. They nearly did this back in 2011 but some of us managed to guide them back to the correct path. I wrote them a simple and consistent set of rules which they adopted and worded a little different. They didn’t credit me for it but I didn’t mind since it saved their list. But not I’ve not been paying close enough attention lately, and now Ironmind have shot off their own foot. RIP red and gold nail roster. 6 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennix Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said: That could be an issue but I'm really good at wrapping. I always wrap super hard, to the point my forearms gets exhausted from doing it. You can also put some chalk inside which helps. If your good at wrapping your imps will get broken in after 4-5 bends which I would say is enough. But using completely new out of the package is making it alot harder. The fabric wont bind enough chalk for it to really get good. But I am also talking about bending Gold nails in imps which is hard in any wrapping tbh 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said: That could be an issue but I'm really good at wrapping. I always wrap super hard, to the point my forearms gets exhausted from doing it. You can also put some chalk inside which helps. Bu the sounds of it, wrapping hard like that might also be against the future rules. You’re just supposed to grap the pads and bend, like hotdog buns. And no bracing against anything throughout the bend. Basically, everyone on the list should be temoved since no one bent the red in those conditions during their cert. Brookfield braced during his bends. Ostlund hotdog bunned the wraps and DU’d, but pushed inwards and braced against his chest so he should also be removed. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, David_wigren said: I swear Ironmind is like an 8 year old with a shotgun. They need constant supervision. If you turn around for a second they’ll have accidentally shoot of their own foot. They nearly did this back in 2011 but some of us managed to guide them back to the correct path. I wrote them a simple and consistent set of rules which they adopted and worded a little different. They didn’t credit me for it but I didn’t mind since it saved their list. But not I’ve not been paying close enough attention lately, and now Ironmind have shot off their own foot. RIP red and gold nail roster. We will see what happens when the new rules come out. Could be just that you have to bend with new wraps that IM send with cert, which is the best case scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Bu the sounds of it, wrapping hard like that might also be against the future rules. You’re just supposed to grap the pads and bend, like hotdog buns. And no bracing against anything throughout the bend. Basically, everyone on the list should be temoved since no one bent the red in those conditions during their cert. Brookfield braced during his bends. Ostlund hotdog bunned the wraps and DU’d, but pushed inwards and braced against his chest so he should also be removed. And yeah this being the worst case where the steel can make NO contact with the body, only hands, and no tight wrapping or folding techniques are allowed. Means you cant even reverse or DU if the wraps are not touching Edited February 23, 2022 by bruce1337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, bruce1337 said: And yeah this being the worst case where the steel can make NO contact with the body, only hands, and no tight wrapping or folding techniques are allowed. Means you cant even reverse or DU if the wraps are not touching Stop calling them wraps. They are pads now! And besides, even pads touching lets you fold with DU. As soon as the bar gets bent past 20-30 degrees it’s inevitable that some inward crushing force gets used. You would have to deliberately avoid it, and even then it would be difficult not to use it accidentally. Only full reverse with the bar away from the body from start to finish with Ironmind pads held like hot dog buns will be consistent with what they are describing in their recent comment. It might be a fun challenge. To see who can bend a red in accordance to their ridiculous standards. It’ll be incredibly dumb and risky, but not impossible. A gold in that manner will however be impossible. At least under the assumption that the gold nail doesn’t change and become alot easier than what it has been previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, David_wigren said: Bu the sounds of it, wrapping hard like that might also be against the future rules. You’re just supposed to grap the pads and bend, like hotdog buns. And no bracing against anything throughout the bend. Basically, everyone on the list should be temoved since no one bent the red in those conditions during their cert. Brookfield braced during his bends. Ostlund hotdog bunned the wraps and DU’d, but pushed inwards and braced against his chest so he should also be removed. Yes to be honest, with stupid rules like this, there's only one guy who deserves to be on the list and that the russian guy who certed barehanded. I mean, if you can't bend it like that you're weak. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Fist of Fury said: Yes to be honest, with stupid rules like this, there's only one guy who deserves to be on the list and that the russian guy who certed barehanded. I mean, if you can't bend it like that you're weak. Bat failed though. And he finished the bend DO, which is clearly cheating. He also used chalk, which, if it had been used in Ironmind pads would’ve seasoned them and thus be illegal too. So even Bat’s bend wouldn’t hold up. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Lennix said: If your good at wrapping your imps will get broken in after 4-5 bends which I would say is enough. But using completely new out of the package is making it alot harder. The fabric wont bind enough chalk for it to really get good. But I am also talking about bending Gold nails in imps which is hard in any wrapping tbh I still prefer them completely new. I'm really good at wrapping even the brand new wraps. It was a huge problem for me when I started. So I decided to get very good at it. Since then I always bend best with brand new IMP's. I don't have any slipping problems if I really focus on getting a good wrap. When they get softer it gets harder immediately for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Bat failed though. And he finished the bend DO, which is clearly cheating. He also used chalk, which, if it had been used in Ironmind pads would’ve seasoned them and thus be illegal too. So even Bat’s bend wouldn’t hold up. Haha yes, and crushing down a red nail barehanded is for children anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccos1 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, David_wigren said: They nearly did this back in 2011 but some of us managed to guide them back to the correct path. I wrote them a simple and consistent set of rules which they adopted and worded a little different. They didn’t credit me for it but I didn’t mind since it saved their list. But not I’ve not been paying close enough attention lately, and now Ironmind have shot off their own foot. I didn't think it was that long ago. Time flies! This is unfortunate to me--reading all of the updates about the Red Nail roster etc. As someone who took the cert. to heart, and went-on to bend over 350 Reds according to official cert. standards, over a decade, I feel like I know a little something about the feat. And more importantly, it meant something to me. Is it easy to bend as described double-overhand? For me, the first few years, yes it was very easy. Most bends back then could be done well under ten-seconds. Some close to five-seconds. Regardless of stock or variance. Some attempts, I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a Yellow. But as time went-on, and injuries accrued, it became a challenge again. (Maybe there should be two lists: an over 45 and an under 45? Or over/under 50?) I don't know many people that would be able to bend a Red Nail, using wraps touching, at the waist (out-in-front), using loose wraps. I could envision several more doing this strict reverse or being much closer to it than the DO style described above. I think the current rules and feat for certifying the Red might be on the easier side, but it has been established long ago, under the current rules, with all forms of bending, that this is not an elite feat, but rather a gateway bend to bigger and more difficult things. If one were to do the bend wraps touching or away from the body, or similar for the other styles, then it would be elite IMO. One possible way to change, if the thought is that the cert has become too easy or saturated, is to keep the remaining rules (for history/consistency) and adopt a specified date to make the Red Nail slightly harder. (This would be noted on the list and easy to differentiate.) Either a slightly different batch (O1 @ 5/16), or something similar at 8mm or so. Something that would consistently rate higher than most Reds, that have come in around 420-440. Many of the 5/16 O1 stock I've bent has been 475-500+. This would eliminate the "easy" of the cert for mostly everyone, regardless of what happens to the rules or styles of bending. And having the Red Nail Roster has been a great thing for bending, IMO. This was what drove me for about two years when I started. I didn't know of many other things to strive for at the time with bending (prior to the Benders Battlefield certs), but it was a good initial exposure to a challenge, that wasn't easy to get to on one's own. Just some thoughts on the subject. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonjoseph Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Watch them make it single pad only. The talk about shop rags is making me cringe at whatever idea they are gonna produce 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 9 hours ago, bruce1337 said: Yes derrick refers to Derek Graybill. I'm just still mad at Derek that he didn't certify on the MM1 a few months earlier so then he would be #68 and then I could have been MM1 #69 lmao. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stranger Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Buccos1 said: I didn't think it was that long ago. Time flies! This is unfortunate to me--reading all of the updates about the Red Nail roster etc. As someone who took the cert. to heart, and went-on to bend over 350 Reds according to official cert. standards, over a decade, I feel like I know a little something about the feat. And more importantly, it meant something to me. Is it easy to bend as described double-overhand? For me, the first few years, yes it was very easy. Most bends back then could be done well under ten-seconds. Some close to five-seconds. Regardless of stock or variance. Some attempts, I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a Yellow. But as time went-on, and injuries accrued, it became a challenge again. (Maybe there should be two lists: an over 45 and an under 45? Or over/under 50?) I don't know many people that would be able to bend a Red Nail, using wraps touching, at the waist (out-in-front), using loose wraps. I could envision several more doing this strict reverse or being much closer to it than the DO style described above. I think the current rules and feat for certifying the Red might be on the easier side, but it has been established long ago, under the current rules, with all forms of bending, that this is not an elite feat, but rather a gateway bend to bigger and more difficult things. If one were to do the bend wraps touching or away from the body, or similar for the other styles, then it would be elite IMO. One possible way to change, if the thought is that the cert has become too easy or saturated, is to keep the remaining rules (for history/consistency) and adopt a specified date to make the Red Nail slightly harder. (This would be noted on the list and easy to differentiate.) Either a slightly different batch (O1 @ 5/16), or something similar at 8mm or so. Something that would consistently rate higher than most Reds, that have come in around 420-440. Many of the 5/16 O1 stock I've bent has been 475-500+. This would eliminate the "easy" of the cert for mostly everyone, regardless of what happens to the rules or styles of bending. And having the Red Nail Roster has been a great thing for bending, IMO. This was what drove me for about two years when I started. I didn't know of many other things to strive for at the time with bending (prior to the Benders Battlefield certs), but it was a good initial exposure to a challenge, that wasn't easy to get to on one's own. Just some thoughts on the subject. They could start talking about the 'Black Nail' again. Something close to in-between Red and Gold. 11/32x7.5 or 7.75. The Red Nail Roster does bring and keep a lot of people involved with bending, changing the rules could discourage new and current benders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledCitrus Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 This whole thing is cringe. Someone needs to get their house in order. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinhoo Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, BottledCitrus said: This whole thing is cringe. Someone needs to get their house in order. It was on a different forum, but Randall Strossen even went so far as to create a reddit account and dig up a bad review of IronMind's products from almost a year ago just so that he could doxx the original poster. Talk about spiteful. Edited February 23, 2022 by devinhoo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jermiah Merciconah Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, devinhoo said: It was on a different forum, but Randall Strossen even went so far as to create a reddit account and dig up a bad review of IronMind's products from almost a year ago just so that he could doxx the original poster. Talk about spiteful. If he did so through purchase information of that user i'm atleast decently sure thats a massive crime 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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