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Joe Kinney “Secret Weapon”


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David_wigren

The reason why I personally don’t care about the “gripper being lost” or whether or not the same gripper was later used in the video is that it sets up a false premise. Because if Randall was here, and it later turned out that it was in fact not the same gripper that he used for the cert and the video, then Randall would use that as “proof” that Kinney did in fact close an untampered #4. And all the fan boys would jump in and use that to Kinney’s defense. Which is of course ridiculous. The gripper not being the same and the story about the gripper being lost and etc doesn’t matter. What matters is that Kinney never did anything impressive in front of anyone who actually had a clue about grip strength. And just a few years later when he finally meets up with a grip guy, he can only close a #2 and does “ok” with an attempt to close a filed #3. And this was just a few years after he was man handling #4’s in ways that has not been duplicated by anyone since, in fact no one has been close even with a 3.5. And the close on the video looked wonky as hell.

Here is the real premise:

It was the same gripper - Kinney was fake

It was not the same gripper - Kinney was still fake

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Don’t know the answer but certain this will go nuclear 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

One thing I will mention is I believe almost everyone uses this machine wrong. You should give some instruction.  Most people brace their hand on the top handle, lift the bottom bar so it’s compl

Going to make one of these today because I believe so strongly in Joe Kinney.

Posted Images

Hopefully
On 2/28/2021 at 7:18 AM, slazbob said:

This is my best attempt. I think with angles and lighting it’s a bit tricky. I used a piece of tape on mine and never moved it looks similar, what you think?

CF796840-72D1-45AF-B5B3-F791BF6C1119.png

30449CA1-493D-4AA3-903D-858BAB36C49E.jpeg

42B0F433-48FE-4AAB-9ED8-BA604B3A4C9C.jpeg

BB466B0F-6EE5-4991-85D2-CE8D59181235.jpeg

I can't see what you mean at all from those pictures

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Hubgeezer
12 hours ago, David_wigren said:

The reason why I personally don’t care about the “gripper being lost” or whether or not the same gripper was later used in the video is that it sets up a false premise. Because if Randall was here, and it later turned out that it was in fact not the same gripper that he used for the cert and the video, then Randall would use that as “proof” that Kinney did in fact close an untampered #4. And all the fan boys would jump in and use that to Kinney’s defense. Which is of course ridiculous. The gripper not being the same and the story about the gripper being lost and etc doesn’t matter. What matters is that Kinney never did anything impressive in front of anyone who actually had a clue about grip strength. And just a few years later when he finally meets up with a grip guy, he can only close a #2 and does “ok” with an attempt to close a filed #3. And this was just a few years after he was man handling #4’s in ways that has not been duplicated by anyone since, in fact no one has been close even with a 3.5. And the close on the video looked wonky as hell.

Here is the real premise:

It was the same gripper - Kinney was fake

It was not the same gripper - Kinney was still fake

As someone I highly respect once said:

 

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slazbob
12 hours ago, Hopefully said:

I can't see what you mean at all from those pictures

His no.4 has a dot, or spot which we highlighted. I did the same to mine, which shows the dot looks lower and further away in the palm vs showing straight on. I think that’s why Matt’s line he drew was not lining up.
I was claiming it was the same gripper in his video and pictures...but I can not measure it properly ...or maybe I’m just wrong 😑 

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Hopefully
7 hours ago, slazbob said:

His no.4 has a dot, or spot which we highlighted. I did the same to mine, which shows the dot looks lower and further away in the palm vs showing straight on. I think that’s why Matt’s line he drew was not lining up.
I was claiming it was the same gripper in his video and pictures...but I can not measure it properly ...or maybe I’m just wrong 😑 

Yeah I get that, I just don't see the mark you are talking about..

And pic #2 is so blurry that.. you can barely see anything. Perhaps it can be improved in Photoshop somehow?

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David_wigren
8 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

As someone I highly respect once said:

 

Every time I see or hear anyone reference this scene I think of our old conversation over at the Ironmind forum XD. This and the other clip about Cowbells.

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Tommy J.
On 2/28/2021 at 12:18 AM, slazbob said:

This is my best attempt. I think with angles and lighting it’s a bit tricky. I used a piece of tape on mine and never moved it looks similar, what you think?

CF796840-72D1-45AF-B5B3-F791BF6C1119.png

30449CA1-493D-4AA3-903D-858BAB36C49E.jpeg

42B0F433-48FE-4AAB-9ED8-BA604B3A4C9C.jpeg

BB466B0F-6EE5-4991-85D2-CE8D59181235.jpeg

I mean is nobody gonna talk about how your basically holding a #4 closed here?... 😳

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Wannagrip

Why would Kinney go to all the unique (at the time) ways to train to just close a #3?  He was a big time innovator.  That makes no sense to me.  So, after doing such things, he fell short somehow and then just decided to fake things?  So, his perfect setting and HUGE thumb pad are just to close a #3?  Holding such a high level of closing strength especially as older is not easy either.  It's been difficult for younger guys.  Again, I have a lot of data now seeing freaky gripper strength levels and many freaks over the last two decades.  That gripper could have been a very easy #4 as well as it is my belief that back then IM grippers did vary more.

 

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Hopefully
7 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

Why would Kinney go to all the unique (at the time) ways to train to just close a #3?  He was a big time innovator.  That makes no sense to me.  So, after doing such things, he fell short somehow and then just decided to fake things?  So, his perfect setting and HUGE thumb pad are just to close a #3?  Holding such a high level of closing strength especially as older is not easy either.  It's been difficult for younger guys.  Again, I have a lot of data now seeing freaky gripper strength levels and many freaks over the last two decades.  That gripper could have been a very easy #4 as well as it is my belief that back then IM grippers did vary more.

 

And what's interesting is that although those people you are speaking of can be deemed to have "freakish" crush strength in relation to other very strong people, yet even them can still be considered weak in direct comparison to the strength Joe demonstrates in his video. To name just a few of those: Carl M, Shamey, Gabriel sum, Tanner, Andrew durniat, Jonathan voght, right?

One can look at it both ways of course, if there are people who are so far ahead of what everyone else can do, why couldn't there be a select few whose ahead of them just the same?

Or, some of the strongest guys on the planet haven't been able to do what Joe did, for over 20 years. It seems highly unlikely that a middle aged man with a normal Body structure trained himself to be the strongest crusher ever in 18(?) Months. And noone else has managed to even come close to that.

Although some of Nathans ccs videos of #4s from the past indicate Joes level of strength is indeed possible, and Nathan himself says that he has been able to close 4s in a similar fashion and sees nothing weird about it. So yeah, to write it off as 100% fake is perhaps to take it a little bit far. But there's a case for it of course.

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David_wigren

Well, if we’re going to be 100% correct we can’t call Kinney neither fraud or legit. He is a random person who was passionate about grip training and made incredible strength claims whilst never proving it in an objective setting or performing the feats in front of anyone who were competent enough to know if he was fake. The only ones who’s seen his strength feats are himself, his wife and maybe a friend or two of his. It’s not that these people are not credible, it’s that they’re not competent enough. It would be like using me to figure out who is the best chess player in the world. I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between the local champion from the absolute best in the world, because I know absolutely nothing about chess.

So we have to take the stance that Kinney’s claims are unverified and therefore we can’t accept them. In addition, they also seem extraordinary. And the vast majority of people who make extraordinary claims without proving them, turn out to be fake. So IMO Kinney was a passionate grip guy who had some interesting ideas of training and probably faked a few things because he wanted to be cool in a super niche community where faking a simple gripper close wouldn’t be the end of the world.

By the way, have you guys seen Brad Castleberry? Man, that dude is STRONG! Dude is like repping world record weights in every exercise he does! Might seem fake to some but I think he’s legit. I mean look at his muscles! They look like they could lift those weights for sure. I’ve been training since I was a child so I know these things.

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Wannagrip

Castleberry is not a good analogy in my opinion.  Again, I trust Heath and what he experienced person to person looking him in the eye. 

 

Typically, I don't think the true outside the box innovators are the first up to try and fake something in any aspect of life.  

Regardless of belief, IMO Joe brought gripper training to a new level on several fronts.  Just the concept of "training beyond the range" which wasn't anything new in lifting he was responsible for bringing to gripper training. How many of you have shaved off the handles of a gripper? ;)

 

 

 

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Climber028

I think a lot of this is because so many people are too honest and can't imagine how easy it is to cheat and fake feats. I've been in a number of communities in my life and have never experienced one that is free of cheaters, even for things with no awards or prize money or anything, hobbies way smaller than grip and there are always people who lie and cheat, it is a human constant. Couple that with the fact that grip feats have been steadily increasing over the years and nobody is even close to replicating what he did, I just don't see any reason to believe him. 

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Joe Sullivan
1 hour ago, Climber028 said:

I think a lot of this is because so many people are too honest and can't imagine how easy it is to cheat and fake feats. I've been in a number of communities in my life and have never experienced one that is free of cheaters, even for things with no awards or prize money or anything, hobbies way smaller than grip and there are always people who lie and cheat, it is a human constant. Couple that with the fact that grip feats have been steadily increasing over the years and nobody is even close to replicating what he did, I just don't see any reason to believe him. 

All great points...

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slazbob

I’d like to think that he was able to close a no.4, it is definitely not the impossible task we thought it was before Joe.

it’s all the odd stuff that surrounds the story; certified, then basically quit before anyone got too close...

asked to see his gripper, and it was stolen...

Makes a video, and doesn’t show any real strength on easy demonstrations, except the no.4 close, which we have never seen the likes of again....

doesn't mention the Monster Gripper...which he gives most of the credit to...and started off not being honest. If you do that, that’s usually what you do.

shows his no.4 to Heath and it has ground marks on the inside of the handles...which doesn’t seem to be present in the photo or video which makes you think it’s another no.4 ...this was 4 years after he quit so did he not quit?  or still messed around “trying” to close it?

Many a things happened to his story; to being ahh shucks backwoods feller, to writing these well punctuated essays about how springs work and other stuff....not saying you can’t better yourself, just adds to his story of strange happenings. 

Im with Bill here about the training and equipment- I do love all of it!

so, Joe if we’re wrong about you apologies-it’s not personal, just being human. If we are correct, You have to live that.

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slazbob
13 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

I mean is nobody gonna talk about how your basically holding a #4 closed here?... 😳

Haha no I strived for accuracy so I held 2 no.4’s together 🤓

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David_wigren
23 hours ago, Wannagrip said:

Castleberry is not a good analogy in my opinion.  Again, I trust Heath and what he experienced person to person looking him in the eye. 

 

Typically, I don't think the true outside the box innovators are the first up to try and fake something in any aspect of life.  

Regardless of belief, IMO Joe brought gripper training to a new level on several fronts.  Just the concept of "training beyond the range" which wasn't anything new in lifting he was responsible for bringing to gripper training. How many of you have shaved off the handles of a gripper? ;)

 

 

 

I think it’s a pretty good comparison. I mean, to my knowledge no one has actually confirmed that he was/is using fake weights. He looks extremely strong so why wouldn’t he be able to lift those weights? Powerlifting records are being broken all the time. Maybe Brad was just ahead of his time? 

 

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Hubgeezer
On 3/3/2021 at 4:30 AM, David_wigren said:

Well, if we’re going to be 100% correct we can’t call Kinney neither...

So we have to take the stance that Kinney’s claims are...

Who is "we"?

 

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Wannagrip
1 hour ago, David_wigren said:

I think it’s a pretty good comparison. I mean, to my knowledge no one has actually confirmed that he was/is using fake weights. He looks extremely strong so why wouldn’t he be able to lift those weights? Powerlifting records are being broken all the time. Maybe Brad was just ahead of his time? 

 

He has faked weights and it is VERY obvious. He still is very very strong and super athletic.  

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Joe Sullivan
16 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

He has faked weights and it is VERY obvious. He still is very very strong and super athletic.  

Definitely no secret to that mystery.... 💯 

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David_wigren
48 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

Who is "we"?

 

”We” is everyone equipped with objective critical thinking skills.

“I”, however like to take things a step further and just call him a fraud since I personally think he acts and behaves like a fraud. Things just don’t add up in my book. Also in addition, I’m of the opinion that for someone to make extraordinary claims one needs to have something to back it up. Kinney has nothing, and that’s a fact. A grainy video of him closing a gripper that says “4” on the bottom is not sufficient enough. There are no competent witnesses, no objectively reliable documentation, NOTHING. However, to be 100% objective. There is also no reliable proof that he indeed is a fraud. So the only thing “we” can do is to put him in the category of athletes with unverified claims. Another person who is also in this category is Brad Castleberry. Now sure, Brad REALLY seems fake, but since he has not objectively been proven to be fake, he can not objectively be called as such. He is a athlete with unverified claims, just like Joe Kinney.

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Joe Sullivan
38 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

”We” is everyone equipped with objective critical thinking skills.

“I”, however like to take things a step further and just call him a fraud since I personally think he acts and behaves like a fraud. Things just don’t add up in my book. Also in addition, I’m of the opinion that for someone to make extraordinary claims one needs to have something to back it up. Kinney has nothing, and that’s a fact. A grainy video of him closing a gripper that says “4” on the bottom is not sufficient enough. There are no competent witnesses, no objectively reliable documentation, NOTHING. However, to be 100% objective. There is also no reliable proof that he indeed is a fraud. So the only thing “we” can do is to put him in the category of athletes with unverified claims. Another person who is also in this category is Brad Castleberry. Now sure, Brad REALLY seems fake, but since he has not objectively been proven to be fake, he can not objectively be called as such. He is a athlete with unverified claims, just like Joe Kinney.

This is a great post, Wiggy!

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Hopefully

Well I choose to be neutral, it isn't as unbeliavable as that benders stuff or Brad's, those two are pretty clearly frauds. No need for any proof of it, imo. In Joe's case it isn't as clear in my eyes. 

Objectively they would all belong in the same category though.

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Hubgeezer
18 hours ago, David_wigren said:

”We” is everyone equipped with objective critical thinking skills.

 

After your Castleberry parody, which appears to have been taken seriously by some on this thread, it’s difficult to take much of what you say seriously.

”My” speculation of your using the “we” word several times recently is that you like to give the illusion that your views represent some sort of majority of the membership of this forum, when in fact, it is the same select few that “like” what you say over and over and over again. 
 

And furthermore, I suspect that you have been closely following the recent “medal count” of “likes” on this forum, and are jealous that I have won so many medals recently, so like the fake platesters, you are coming up with desperate attempts to leverage your popularity, even resorting to fake scientific arguments. 
 

Hmmm. I am not sure myself what part of this post I am being serious, and what part I am not. Regardless, I have appreciated Bill’s candid comments on this thread regarding Joe Kinney, and consider some portions of this thread among the best discussions to date on the matter.

And seriously, I do appreciate those who are strong enough to stand by their opinions, and do not resort to some weak form of “groupthink”. 

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David_wigren

I was 100% sincere with the Castleberry analogy. It seems ridiculous to you because you accept Kinney’s anecdotal claims to be real based on their own merit. Well I don’t accept them as real based on their own merit, just as I don’t accept Castleberrys anecdotal claims as real based on their own metit.

I’m out of this thread. I’m way too busy in my pursuit of strength, in all its forms. I don’t have time for people like Kinney and stories that are mostly fake. Kinney will have my respect whenever any real substantial evidence surfaces. Until then he’s a nobody. Just another guy with extraordinary strength claims. The world has alot of those.

You guys can continue to idolize him and his silly training tips(just do negatives and do more of them every day until you’re the strongest of all time!🤦‍♂️) I’ll be over in the real world mixing it with people who are actually doing things for real. No smoke and mirrors, no secrets, no personal bests that are “personal”, no hiding in a basement filming grainy videos. But out in the real world face to face against other people. The big fish in a big pond kind of thing.
 

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Wannagrip
44 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

 

Hmmm. I am not sure myself what part of this post I am being serious, and what part I am not. Regardless, I have appreciated Bill’s candid comments on this thread regarding Joe Kinney, and consider some portions of this thread among the best discussions to date on the matter.

 

I agree this has been some of the best discussion without getting off track, etc. and making it personal. Which is why it has stayed open.  

 

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