Joe Kinney “Secret Weapon”

[Fist of Fury]

22 minutes ago, Kaesar83 said:

Yeah no worries; I probably don't always word things in writing as they are in my head so often people don't get my exact meanings, but that is on me. I lean slightly towards non fake because well, benefit of the doubt and I guess I'd like to believe it is possible, not that I'll ever get there .

Once you get stronger and closer to the #4 (if you ever get there) you will have a better understanding of why people say this is fake.

[Kaesar83]

11 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

Did you succeed in TNSing the #2 before your buddy btw?

Not officially had the "challenge" yet. He is one of those keeps his grippers in his glove compartment. Unfortunately, his car had to go into the garage just before Xmas and is still waiting to get it back so aiming for end of this month instead. He has years and years of general strength training and has a lot more muscle so I'm not holding out much hope of beating him. But it's been good, I enjoy the challenge and keeps us chatting most days,  I feel it's easy to fall out of contact with friends you don't see in person. Also keeping me in some sort of training routine during covid. I actually just got a #2.5 as a present today so that keeps me busy for the rest of the year whenever I do nail the #2 from a TNS. How's your training going, do you have any specific goals at the moment?

[Kaesar83]

3 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Once you get stronger and closer to the #4 (if you ever get there) you will have a better understanding of why people say this is fake.

I understand why they say it's fake, that's not difficult to comprehend and I don't know why you think you need to be able to be near to a #4 close to understand that, weird logic. Like I said, no-one has proved it is fake nor has anyone proved without doubt it is real and that's the crux of it. I think we're going round in circles which is inevitably what happens in these threads. I'm not really bothered either way to be honest, it would be nice to know 100% but that isn't ever going to happen? 

Back to SW, as I feel we've digressed, without knowing if the feat was *actually* ever accomplished we can't really say if it was effective.

Assuming that the #4 close was accomplished we don't how much of that would be down to the SW if at all. Following that there is seemingly a few differing opinions on how it should/would be used.

I must admit I personally am not a fan of heavy negs and in my opinion it could be a good way to get injured but what works for one man won't necessarily work for another and vice versa.

[Fist of Fury]

12 minutes ago, Kaesar83 said:

I understand why they say it's fake, that's not difficult to comprehend and I don't know why you think you need to be able to be near to a #4 close to understand that, weird logic. Like I said, no-one has proved it is fake nor has anyone proved without doubt it is real and that's the crux of it. I think we're going round in circles which is inevitably what happens in these threads. I'm not really bothered either way to be honest, it would be nice to know 100% but that isn't ever going to happen? 

Back to SW, as I feel we've digressed, without knowing if the feat was *actually* ever accomplished we can't really say if it was effective.

Assuming that the #4 close was accomplished we don't how much of that would be down to the SW if at all. Following that there is seemingly a few differing opinions on how it should/would be used.

I must admit I personally am not a fan of heavy negs and in my opinion it could be a good way to get injured but what works for one man won't necessarily work for another and vice versa.

No it's not weird at all. It's very simple logic. The closer you are in strength the better understanding you will have of the difficulty.

Someone who works with COC#2 will not understand how hard a #4 actually is. The closer you get to that level the better understanding you'll get for it.

[Fist of Fury]

2 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

If Joe did it, it was because of genetics and not his machine (rather training in general). People want to know why the strong guys are strong, seeking their advice, because their methods must be the best seeing how strong they are. The answer though, to a very large degree, is that they are strong because they had the potential to be strong. Imo, of course.

Very true. There's really not many secrets. That's why the name of this device is so hilarious. Although I do think BTR training is the best accessory workouts for gripper training. So I do think it's good but as I said earlier it can be done so much better with an adjustable gripper. Much more safe and way more specific.

[Kaesar83]

24 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

No it's not weird at all. It's very simple logic. The closer you are in strength the better understanding you will have of the difficulty.

Someone who works with COC#2 will not understand how hard a #4 actually is. The closer you get to that level the better understanding you'll get for it.

But it's flawed; maybe you couldn't fathom the difficulty when you were closing X or Y gripper but that doesn't that mean everyone else in the entire world can't understand it unless they're near to closing a #4. Even if that was true, which it isn't, that still doesn't prove whether it was faked just because someone who is closer to a #4 says the video is fishy.

At the moment this is just "I'm closer to a #4 than you, I think it is fake so it must be". I appreciate you think it's fake but that's an opinion and until there is proof then it's still going to be an "unknown".

I think we just disagree and that's fine, we should move on. 

[Kaesar83]

32 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

If Joe did it, it was because of genetics and not his machine (rather training in general). People want to know why the strong guys are strong, seeking their advice, because their methods must be the best seeing how strong they are. The answer though, to a very large degree, is that they are strong because they had the potential to be strong. Imo, of course.

Totally agree here.. that's one thing I see a lot of. People ask about genetics and someone gives the old "train hard" line. Obviously, everyone can improve by training but there will be genetic limitations which I personally think come in to play when closing much harder grippers. A bit like most guys with really long arms suck at overhead pressing but funnily enough do well on deadlifts. Biomechanical advantages do come in to it but often people don't/want to admit it, or they see someone asking a genuine question about it but read it as if the person asking the question is looking for an excuse before they start and therefore they get the generic answer of "training is more important".

[Fist of Fury]

18 minutes ago, Kaesar83 said:

But it's flawed; maybe you couldn't fathom the difficulty when you were closing X or Y gripper but that doesn't that mean everyone else in the entire world can't understand it unless they're near to closing a #4. Even if that was true, which it isn't, that still doesn't prove whether it was faked just because someone who is closer to a #4 says the video is fishy.

At the moment this is just "I'm closer to a #4 than you, I think it is fake so it must be". I appreciate you think it's fake but that's an opinion and until there is proof then it's still going to be an "unknown".

I think we just disagree and that's fine, we should move on. 

I never said you can't understand it. I said you can understand it BETTER. That's how it is. And for your own sake, don't even try to argue against this.

[Kaesar83]

Just now, Fist of Fury said:

I never said you can't understand it. I said you can understand it BETTER. That's how it is. And for your own sake, don't even try to argue against this.

For my own sake? Oh god, you're one of those. Like I said we should move on.

[Fist of Fury]

4 minutes ago, Kaesar83 said:

For my own sake? Oh god, you're one of those. Like I said we should move on.

Yes for your own sake. It would make you look really stupid. No offense but you're trying to argue just for the sake of arguing.

While I try to help you, You're just laughing. keep on laughing, I doubt it will last long while you're chasing the #4.

[Kaesar83]

2 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Yes for your own sake. It would make you look really stupid. No offense but you're trying to argue just for the sake of arguing.

While I try to help you, You're just laughing. keep on laughing, I doubt it will last long while you're chasing the #4.

Then I think you misunderstand me; I'm not trying to argue, I'm here to discuss. All I've said that is there is no substantial proof either way to confirm or deny the close and because I'm not taking others people's opinion as fact that seems to be an issue of sorts. I personally would like to believe it happened and would give the benefit of the doubt but that's not to say I don't have my own reservations about it. Unfortunately, the cert rules back that were rather lax and hence why I'm on the fence. If you've got proof that it's definitely fake then I'm interested in seeing/hearing it, as I'm sure lots are, or if there are specific things in the video that we can talk about then great.

I close grippers purely just for fun but even if I didn't I very much doubt I would ever get anywhere close to a #4 and I'm completely ok with that. If by some miracle I somehow do then that would be awesome but I'm under no disillusionment otherwise.

Good luck with whatever it is you're training in/for.

[Fist of Fury]

29 minutes ago, Kaesar83 said:

Then I think you misunderstand me; I'm not trying to argue, I'm here to discuss. All I've said that is there is no substantial proof either way to confirm or deny the close and because I'm not taking others people's opinion as fact that seems to be an issue of sorts. I personally would like to believe it happened and would give the benefit of the doubt but that's not to say I don't have my own reservations about it. Unfortunately, the cert rules back that were rather lax and hence why I'm on the fence. If you've got proof that it's definitely fake then I'm interested in seeing/hearing it, as I'm sure lots are, or if there are specific things in the video that we can talk about then great.

I close grippers purely just for fun but even if I didn't I very much doubt I would ever get anywhere close to a #4 and I'm completely ok with that. If by some miracle I somehow do then that would be awesome but I'm under no disillusionment otherwise.

Good luck with whatever it is you're training in/for.

Nobody claims to have any proof either. I was trying to explain to you why most people (read MOST PEOPLE not all) who are actually very trong and have closed the #4 or have been really close to doing so are skeptic about Joe Kinney.

There's a reason that most people have that opinion and it's easier to understand if you're more experienced yourself.

 

[Paul Savage]

3 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

100% you will end up hurting yourself. His methods will not do you anything besides getting people injured. Do people know you've been chasing the #4 cert since a long time and still can't? Despite all the strength you've gained, it is extremely hard. You are like what 175 KG? And Kinney was 170 pounds? But one thing Kinney has over us, squatting 200 KG for 60 reps before breakfast, all without training for it 

 

Yeah 180kg gym weight typical day an that has helped me at least make some ground because it gives higher starting point on grippers before my baby tendons make me stop (a frustrating problem) for most that dont have the same issue id say if you have 100-110kg lean thats enough bodyweight for this feat, 170lbs is a lot less though. I mean you can really see a difference just in hand size, a huge issue is keeping the back handle in place so basically all 4 closers have monster thumb pads that go well over the back handle, joes sits behind it and might not even be physically big enough to stop a true #4 gripper from sliding away as you try to close, its a lot of pressure. He also didnt look like he even used chalk haha

[slazbob]

On 2/14/2021 at 7:39 AM, Alawadhi said:

100% you will end up hurting yourself. His methods will not do you anything besides getting people injured. Do people know you've been chasing the #4 cert since a long time and still can't? Despite all the strength you've gained, it is extremely hard. You are like what 175 KG? And Kinney was 170 pounds? But one thing Kinney has over us, squatting 200 KG for 60 reps before breakfast, all without training for it 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by slazbob

[Hubgeezer]

No one will ever accuse me of being objective when it comes to Joe Kinney.

But, there are two points I want to make, and this thread is as good a place as any to mention them.

I don’t “get” all the analogies about Magnus and his tremendous gripping power: “Gee, if Magnus can do this, well then someone half his weight could not possibly do such and such”, and on and on. Why don’t I get it? Because of the 15 plus times I have been around Odd Haugen, including his squeezing my Baseline hydraulic dynamometer. Big boned fellow, extremely strong, absolutely World Class in Thick Bar, and... very medium talented when it comes to crushing grip. If I follow the logic applied to Magnus versus Kinney, then I could see a train of thought like, “Well, Joe Blow, a 500 pound deadlifter, no way could he close a Number 3, because Odd Haugen cannot even do 7 seconds with a Number 3 squeezing the Silver Bullet.”

Nope, it does not work that way.

The other almost totally unrelated point is the subject of Alan Barch, Jr.

Alan Barch certified on the 3.5 in May of 2015. He is/was known for being a Vertical Jump specialist, a stay-at-home-Dad, father of five. There may have been just one Gripboard thread discussing his talents, mentioned a time or two in another thread or two. Most of the posts in the thread were rave reviews. Except the thread got awfully heated when fellows started arguing as to why he might not have any reason to join the gripboard, people have lives outside forums, and so on. It was a one time thing.

BUT, in the nongrip forum/internet world, I just recently discovered that Alan Barch, Jr and Joe Kinney are in Parallel Universes. It goes like this:

Alan Barch is  a Five Foot Nine Inch White Guy

No one in the NBA has a Vertical of what he claims to have, the highest leap in the World

You have to pay money to get his advice

Most of what you see in his advertisements, are stills, not actual video

Alan Barch is a fraud

And, it goes further than that. Detailed discussions of photos being photoshopped and even threads describing what is under his shorts, showing his penis pointing upwards when he is flying upwards, meaning he had released his hands that had been holding onto the basketball rim, he was in fact flying downwards, so his organ was moving up instead of down. The “penisgate” (yes, that’s what it was called) photos have been removed.

I think his various websites are no longer working. Interesting in that there was a video from a medical website about him and some cutting edge back surgery on a very damaged back. Posters were speculating that he injured it from dropping from hanging onto a basketball rim while making photographs of fake vertical jumps.

Do I believe Alan Barch, Jr had a vertical of over 50 inches? No, but I suspect it is more than most NBA players, NFL Defensive Backs, and anyone on this forum. Why do I believe that? Because if some self-taught unknown stay at home Dad taking care of five kids can Certify on the IronMind Number 3.5, he’s got something special going on...

Edited February 14, 2021 by Hubgeezer

[Hubgeezer]

3 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

That's absolutely hilarious

The thread was accidentally posted before I was done with it, not that there was much more added to it or changed before you quoted me.

[slazbob]

13 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

Still hilarious that people will go to such lengths, the penis thing that is.

Yes, I can’t control mine either it points wherever it wants

[Hubgeezer]

35 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

 

I accidentally posted when I meant to Edit. Damn Old People.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Hubgeezer

[Rick Browne]

32 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

No one will ever accuse me of being objective when it comes to Joe Kinney.

But, there are two points I want to make, and this thread is as good a place as any to mention them.

I don’t “get” all the analogies about Magnus and his tremendous gripping power: “Gee, if Magnus can do this, well then someone half his weight could not possibly do such and such”, and on and on. Why don’t I get it? Because of the 15 plus times I have been around Odd Haugen, including his squeezing my Baseline hydraulic dynamometer. Big boned fellow, extremely strong, absolutely World Class in Thick Bar, and... very medium talented when it comes to crushing grip. If I follow the logic applied to Magnus versus Kinney, then I could see a train of thought like, “Well, Joe Blow, a 500 pound deadlifter, no way could he close a Number 3, because Odd Haugen cannot even do 7 seconds with a Number 3 squeezing the Silver Bullet.”

Nope, it does not work that way.

The other almost totally unrelated point is the subject of Alan Barch, Jr.

Alan Barch certified on the 3.5 in May of 2015. He is/was known for being a Vertical Jump specialist, a stay-at-home-Dad, father of five. There may have been just one Gripboard thread discussing his talents, mentioned a time or two in another thread or two. Most of the posts in the thread were rave reviews. Except the thread got awfully heated when fellows started arguing as to why he might not have any reason to join the gripboard, people have lives outside forums, and so on. It was a one time thing.

BUT, in the nongrip forum/internet world, I just recently discovered that Alan Barch, Jr and Joe Kinney are in Parallel Universes. It goes like this:

Alan Barch is  a Five Foot Nine Inch White Guy

No one in the NBA has a Vertical of what he claims to have, the highest leap in the World

You have to pay money to get his advice

Most of what you see in his advertisements, are stills, not actual video

Alan Barch is a fraud

And, it goes further than that. Detailed discussions of photos being photoshopped and even threads describing what is under his shorts, showing his penis pointing upwards when he is flying upwards, meaning he had released his hands that had been holding onto the basketball rim, he was in fact flying downwards, so his organ was moving up instead of down. The “penisgate” (yes, that’s what it was called) photos have been removed.

I think his various websites are no longer working. Interesting in that there was a video from a medical website about him and some cutting edge back surgery on a very damaged back. Posters were speculating that he injured it from dropping from hanging onto a basketball rim while making photographs of fake vertical jumps.

Do I believe Alan Barch, Jr had a vertical of over 50 inches? No, but I suspect it is more than most NBA players, NFL Defensive Backs, and anyone on this forum. Why to I believe that? Because if some self-taught unknown stay at home Dad taking care of five kids can Certify on the IronMind Number 3.5, he’s got something special going on...

Was this the Barch secret?

 

 

[Ryroza]

11 hours ago, Hopefully said:

?

By only training negatives Roger dominated this 4ish level gripper mms, yet even at the crazy levels of negatives he does he still cant mimic a joe close lol

[Hubgeezer]

3 minutes ago, Rick Browne said:

Was this the Barch secret?

 

 

Well, as a young teen, in 1967 or 68, I fantasized of having the soles of my tennis shoes made from the amazing material called Zectron, which is what Super Balls were made of. In my dreams, I was leaping low buildings with a single bounce, dunks were nothing. For the record, the Super Bowl was named after the fine product made by Whammo. 

[Rick Browne]

3 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Well, as a young teen, in 1967 or 68, I fantasized of having the soles of my tennis shoes made from the amazing material called Zectron, which is what Super Balls were made of. In my dreams, I was leaping low buildings with a single bounce, dunks were nothing. For the record, the Super Bowl was named after the fine product made by Whammo. 

Looks like Disney beat you.....  with Flubber 1961... The Absent Minded Professor  

[David_wigren]

Alan Barch is legit. Y’all just jealous of his junk.

[Tommy J.]

16 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

No one will ever accuse me of being objective when it comes to Joe Kinney.

But, there are two points I want to make, and this thread is as good a place as any to mention them.

I don’t “get” all the analogies about Magnus and his tremendous gripping power: “Gee, if Magnus can do this, well then someone half his weight could not possibly do such and such”, and on and on. Why don’t I get it? Because of the 15 plus times I have been around Odd Haugen, including his squeezing my Baseline hydraulic dynamometer. Big boned fellow, extremely strong, absolutely World Class in Thick Bar, and... very medium talented when it comes to crushing grip. If I follow the logic applied to Magnus versus Kinney, then I could see a train of thought like, “Well, Joe Blow, a 500 pound deadlifter, no way could he close a Number 3, because Odd Haugen cannot even do 7 seconds with a Number 3 squeezing the Silver Bullet.”

Nope, it does not work that way.

The other almost totally unrelated point is the subject of Alan Barch, Jr.

Alan Barch certified on the 3.5 in May of 2015. He is/was known for being a Vertical Jump specialist, a stay-at-home-Dad, father of five. There may have been just one Gripboard thread discussing his talents, mentioned a time or two in another thread or two. Most of the posts in the thread were rave reviews. Except the thread got awfully heated when fellows started arguing as to why he might not have any reason to join the gripboard, people have lives outside forums, and so on. It was a one time thing.

BUT, in the nongrip forum/internet world, I just recently discovered that Alan Barch, Jr and Joe Kinney are in Parallel Universes. It goes like this:

Alan Barch is  a Five Foot Nine Inch White Guy

No one in the NBA has a Vertical of what he claims to have, the highest leap in the World

You have to pay money to get his advice

Most of what you see in his advertisements, are stills, not actual video

Alan Barch is a fraud

And, it goes further than that. Detailed discussions of photos being photoshopped and even threads describing what is under his shorts, showing his penis pointing upwards when he is flying upwards, meaning he had released his hands that had been holding onto the basketball rim, he was in fact flying downwards, so his organ was moving up instead of down. The “penisgate” (yes, that’s what it was called) photos have been removed.

I think his various websites are no longer working. Interesting in that there was a video from a medical website about him and some cutting edge back surgery on a very damaged back. Posters were speculating that he injured it from dropping from hanging onto a basketball rim while making photographs of fake vertical jumps.

Do I believe Alan Barch, Jr had a vertical of over 50 inches? No, but I suspect it is more than most NBA players, NFL Defensive Backs, and anyone on this forum. Why do I believe that? Because if some self-taught unknown stay at home Dad taking care of five kids can Certify on the IronMind Number 3.5, he’s got something special going on...

Wow, interesting! I had no idea of barch jump controversy.

any links to this stuff? Hold on the penis tho... I’m only interested in written links. Possibly including quotes of his exact claims?..

also, was there any chance his 50” vertical claim may have simply gotten confused with a 50” box jump? I ask because while a 50” vertical is indeed world class, a 50” box jump not so much. Even though still impressive! And if there is confusion there, who perpetrated it? IMO it makes all the difference.

no interest in defending the guy. Would just enjoy some clarification on it. And yes, I’m being lazy and skipping doing my own search.

 

also, while I’m here (not to defend Joe), I would like to make clear that Joe never said he did the 60 reps of squats in 1 swoop. ....but he never said he didn’t. Obviously no one is squatting 440 for a 60 rep set. Not even Tom Platz in his hayday. Given that Joe tended to count his workouts as an overall volume thing, I’m assuming he did the same with squats. As in- didn’t do them all in 1 swoop, but in the same extended workout. Also did them on a SSB, and pulled himself up each rep assisting with his arms. If that’s what he did, I’m thinking many of us could match that under those same conditions in a workout doing doubles triples and singles till we got to 60 reps. I’m somewhat confident I could and I suck at squats! But a SSB actually is easier for me than a barbell squat. AND using my arms to pull upward on the rack each rep and assist my squat is going to make things much easier. At least for the first 15-20 singles doubles or triples. But then there is this: how deep was he squatting? That’s a huge factor too!

all that said, I chalk his squat controversy up as more of a miscommunication. Because I don’t believe anyone that’s in-the-know enough with squats to the point they understand the relevance of the movement as it pertains to getting overall stronger, AND also owning a SSB, is going to make a claim that outlandish. (Run on sentence like a mf’er!)

if you’ll look at his get a grip video, he makes mention of lifting “tonnage” during a workout via his grip machines. And he did sort of elaborate what he meant on that. By saying “yes this is only lightweight. But with the amount of reps I was doing you can measure the overall weight lifted in in a workout tonnage”

basically, if someone took that the wrong way, they could then say “ah bullshit! The guy is a fraud! I sat there and listened to him say he lifted thousands of pounds using only his hands! Nobody can do that!”

....while that comment could technically be considered true, because technically that is what Joe said (partially) Joe is obviously in no way implying he is closing his grip machine with 1,000lbs+ on it. Even though his inspector tried to imply joe said it that way.

 

That and sometimes many folks just suck at reading, writing, and understanding their own language so bad that confusion is bound to be inevitable.

 

yes, if it’s still on your mind, I DID say I’m confident I can get near* 60 total* reps in a workout (an hours -as In plural- long one!) with 440 under the exact same conditions as Joe. I mean Id practically only be doing leg presses under those circumstances. So yeah.

[Tommy J.]

Unless of course he did indeed say he did 440 for 60 continuous reps.. in that case I stand corrected. And in no way shape or form will I ever come close to matching half that. Lol!

but then again, no will anyone else.