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Joe Kinney “Secret Weapon”


maidenfan

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maidenfan

Hope everyone is good.  Just a question for the old timers.  I bought an original secret weapon from Joe (hand written letter and all) years back when I was active here.  It sat in my garage for years so I gave it to a friend who I know would use it (or at least keep it in the business)

He puts on all sorts of powerlifting, wresting, and grip competitions and we thought it’d be cool to include it as a “Beat Joe” booth. The problem is I don’t have Joe’s letter or his VHS tape and cannot remember what he was doing for times negatives on it.  All I remember is it was a lot more then I could do on those skinny handles

9CC2B22D-074F-4F21-B5F8-4CC94338AF27.jpeg

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Don’t know the answer but certain this will go nuclear 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

One thing I will mention is I believe almost everyone uses this machine wrong. You should give some instruction.  Most people brace their hand on the top handle, lift the bottom bar so it’s compl

Going to make one of these today because I believe so strongly in Joe Kinney.

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AdamTGlass

Don’t know the answer but certain this will go nuclear 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

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mcalpine1986

In just for the entertainment this thread could bring. 

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Cannon

One thing I will mention is I believe almost everyone uses this machine wrong. You should give some instruction. 

Most people brace their hand on the top handle, lift the bottom bar so it’s completely closed, then wrap their fingers and squeeze for dear life. If you take a second and think about that from a biomechanics perspective, the only thing that can happen is the handle mutilates the soft tissue of your fingers and basically tries to dislocate your joints. How is that a grip exercise?  And of course this hurts like hell which is how I believe this machine got a bad rap for being a trial in pain tolerance. 

What you want to do is SET UP for the desired range of motion. If you’re going to let the rep out to 1” before dropping it, then lift the bottom bar so it’s 1” from closed. Wrap your fingers as if you were going to squeeze it shut and assist the close by lifting the bar. Let your fingers close with the desired range of motion. NOW let the weight hit your hand and hold on for dear life. As the weight pulls your hand open to the desired width, at least you’re recruiting and resisting with muscle and tendons by being in the proper position. Make sure and let it drop at the desired point. 

Don’t worry, it will still hurt plenty. At least you’ll be working out instead of strictly torturing yourself 🤗. And adjust the weight so you can get a decent 2-count out of the rep. If it drops at light speed, go back and ask yourself again what you’re even doing. 

Short version: position and close your hand as you close the handles. Don’t close the handles then wrap your hand. 

Have fun 🤗

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Rick Browne
16 hours ago, maidenfan said:

Hope everyone is good.  Just a question for the old timers.  I bought an original secret weapon from Joe (hand written letter and all) years back when I was active here.  It sat in my garage for years so I gave it to a friend who I know would use it (or at least keep it in the business)

He puts on all sorts of powerlifting, wresting, and grip competitions and we thought it’d be cool to include it as a “Beat Joe” booth. The problem is I don’t have Joe’s letter or his VHS tape and cannot remember what he was doing for times negatives on it.  All I remember is it was a lot more then I could do on those skinny handles

9CC2B22D-074F-4F21-B5F8-4CC94338AF27.jpeg

Remember too, that it has a 2:1  ratio

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Hubgeezer
6 hours ago, Cannon said:

One thing I will mention is I believe almost everyone uses this machine wrong. You should give some instruction. 

Most people brace their hand on the top handle, lift the bottom bar so it’s completely closed, then wrap their fingers and squeeze for dear life. If you take a second and think about that from a biomechanics perspective, the only thing that can happen is the handle mutilates the soft tissue of your fingers and basically tries to dislocate your joints. How is that a grip exercise?  And of course this hurts like hell which is how I believe this machine got a bad rap for being a trial in pain tolerance. 

What you want to do is SET UP for the desired range of motion. If you’re going to let the rep out to 1” before dropping it, then lift the bottom bar so it’s 1” from closed. Wrap your fingers as if you were going to squeeze it shut and assist the close by lifting the bar. Let your fingers close with the desired range of motion. NOW let the weight hit your hand and hold on for dear life. As the weight pulls your hand open to the desired width, at least you’re recruiting and resisting with muscle and tendons by being in the proper position. Make sure and let it drop at the desired point. 

Don’t worry, it will still hurt plenty. At least you’ll be working out instead of strictly torturing yourself 🤗. And adjust the weight so you can get a decent 2-count out of the rep. If it drops at light speed, go back and ask yourself again what you’re even doing. 

Short version: position and close your hand as you close the handles. Don’t close the handles then wrap your hand. 

Have fun 🤗

Matt, have you ever read the book written by John Wood and Joe Kinney on the Secret Weapon? Seems like it came out around 7-8 years ago. I went through several rounds with the SW after I first got it (2001 or 2002 or so?), then again a few years later. I was ready to practically give it away. After the book came out, many years later, I believe I had results with it, but never stuck to it long enough. I found that shorter workouts with it, rather than marathon workouts, were helpful, not harmful. 

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Jedd Johnson

Going to make one of these today because I believe so strongly in Joe Kinney.

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Hopefully
20 minutes ago, Jedd Johnson said:

Going to make one of these today because I believe so strongly in Joe Kinney.

You'll cert the #4 in no time

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Jedd Johnson
4 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

You'll cert the #4 in no time

Can't wait for the bones in my fingers to transform from the force of the gripper and SW.

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Fist of Fury
2 hours ago, jchapman said:

Don't you have to squat 465 for a few sets of 50 reps first?

It will sure prime the CNS so you can do slow bodybuilding style workouts with the #4 :D 

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Jedd Johnson
3 hours ago, jchapman said:

Don't you have to squat 465 for a few sets of 50 reps first?

Yes.  And every time I work out on the machine, I will not accept anything less than improvement.  I will always do more weight or more volume.

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gripmaniac
On 2/10/2021 at 11:57 PM, mcalpine1986 said:

In just for the entertainment this thread could bring. 

If reading sarcasm qualifies as entertainment then I doubt you'll be displeased. . . .

the search for an answer to the original (reasonable & legit) question will be all but ignored as stale but quite familiar arguments and assertions are rehashed.

Such is the path of a Kinney thread.  It'll probably get locked after 3-4 pages (just in case we all forget how they play out)

 

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Tommy J.
16 hours ago, jchapman said:

Don't you have to squat 465 for a few sets of 50 reps first?

60* reps. 😬

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Tommy J.
On 2/10/2021 at 7:04 AM, Cannon said:

One thing I will mention is I believe almost everyone uses this machine wrong. You should give some instruction. 

Most people brace their hand on the top handle, lift the bottom bar so it’s completely closed, then wrap their fingers and squeeze for dear life. If you take a second and think about that from a biomechanics perspective, the only thing that can happen is the handle mutilates the soft tissue of your fingers and basically tries to dislocate your joints. How is that a grip exercise?  And of course this hurts like hell which is how I believe this machine got a bad rap for being a trial in pain tolerance. 

What you want to do is SET UP for the desired range of motion. If you’re going to let the rep out to 1” before dropping it, then lift the bottom bar so it’s 1” from closed. Wrap your fingers as if you were going to squeeze it shut and assist the close by lifting the bar. Let your fingers close with the desired range of motion. NOW let the weight hit your hand and hold on for dear life. As the weight pulls your hand open to the desired width, at least you’re recruiting and resisting with muscle and tendons by being in the proper position. Make sure and let it drop at the desired point. 

Don’t worry, it will still hurt plenty. At least you’ll be working out instead of strictly torturing yourself 🤗. And adjust the weight so you can get a decent 2-count out of the rep. If it drops at light speed, go back and ask yourself again what you’re even doing. 

Short version: position and close your hand as you close the handles. Don’t close the handles then wrap your hand. 

Have fun 🤗

On a real note, If used this way I do believe it will work as intended.

 

much like Josh Bryant touts the dead press as a staple bench movement to increase your bench, it is simply not used as intended by most. And Josh Bryant himself would cuss you out over it. People tend to think the dead press is done via reps and sets... doing multiple reps on the dead press is 100% incorrect and totally defeats the purpose of the dead press. The dead press is designed to be the only way to press from the chest with ZERO tension assistance at the bottom. Unlike the tension you get at the bottom when lowering the bar to your chest.  And it’s meant to be done as singles. When you rep it, you totally miss out on the benefits of a true dead press. 
Much like the secret weapon when setting up your grip incorrectly. What @Cannon describes is exactly what everyone gets wrong when using the secret weapon.

 

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Paul Savage
16 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

Yes.  And every time I work out on the machine, I will not accept anything less than improvement.  I will always do more weight or more volume.

Do your squats every morning, focus on having a good mustache game, an no doubt you'll see a smooth injury free progression to 1000lbs for 1000 reps.

Edit - Ok ill put a serious and helpful answer to the question, he either didnt, or his numbers don't matter. Don't do it, don't get anyone else doing it.

Edited by Paul Savage
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mcalpine1986
7 hours ago, gripmaniac said:

If reading sarcasm qualifies as entertainment then I doubt you'll be displeased. . . .

the search for an answer to the original (reasonable & legit) question will be all but ignored as stale but quite familiar arguments and assertions are rehashed.

Such is the path of a Kinney thread.  It'll probably get locked after 3-4 pages (just in case we all forget how they play out)

 

Im easily entertained, Kinney threads are a mixed bag normally.

A lot of people on This board are so serious and seem to lack any sense of humour. No wonder its so dead. 

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Hopefully
1 hour ago, mcalpine1986 said:

Im easily entertained, Kinney threads are a mixed bag normally.

A lot of people on This board are so serious and seem to lack any sense of humour. No wonder its so dead. 

I'm not sure humour is allowed, Wigrens thread about the altered #4 was hilarious but that one didn't live long 🤔

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Wannagrip

Humor is allowed but not at the expense of flaming other members (against the rules for 20 years now here) and using it as a passive aggressive means to be a jerk to another person.   

"Derp...ummm...duhhh....I was just making a joke!  heh heh heh  come on man. These moderators are heavy handed. What the heck man!"

 

 

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Hopefully
20 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

Humor is allowed but not at the expense of flaming other members (against the rules for 20 years now here) and using it as a passive aggressive means to be a jerk to another person.   

"Derp...ummm...duhhh....I was just making a joke!  heh heh heh  come on man. These moderators are heavy handed. What the heck man!"

 

 

Removing it was definitely the right call, I would have done the same. Not that I feel any sympathy to the person being targeted, but as a matter of principle it had to go.

Edited by Hopefully
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Rick Browne

People are showing disrespect to Maidenfan's original post. He directed a question to the Board's Oldtimers so here goes. No one has yet stated the proper way to use the machine in the way Kinney purposed it.  You do not hold for a 2 count or any count. You load the pin with enough weight that when you pull the handle lower handle to meet the top handle , the weight immediately opens the hand. of course you are trying to resist the downward fall of the handle with the fingers.  You do not bear your weight down on the top handle through the thumb pad. The thumb pad is merely placed on the top handle. It is solely used to hit the fingers with a severe negative. The SW is meant to take away the pressure against the thumb pad as happens in doing a negative with let's say a #4. 

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Paul Savage
49 minutes ago, Rick Browne said:

People are showing disrespect to Maidenfan's original post. He directed a question to the Board's Oldtimers so here goes. No one has yet stated the proper way to use the machine in the way Kinney purposed it.  You do not hold for a 2 count or any count. You load the pin with enough weight that when you pull the handle lower handle to meet the top handle , the weight immediately opens the hand. of course you are trying to resist the downward fall of the handle with the fingers.  You do not bear your weight down on the top handle through the thumb pad. The thumb pad is merely placed on the top handle. It is solely used to hit the fingers with a severe negative. The SW is meant to take away the pressure against the thumb pad as happens in doing a negative with let's say a #4. 

It's because this has been proven by many to not work, and also have a pretty high risk of serious injury. It's also just common sense, a slow negative with a bit above maximum weight would be one thing but having it so severely heavy it instantly opens your hand is the equivilant of trying to get a stronger squat by setting a well above maximal weight on a forklift and having it dump it on your shoulders causing you to get stapled to the pins, then by his methods, the forklift lift it up and repeat 60 times over. Are you going to the squat hall of fame? No, you are going to the hospital.

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Fist of Fury

To be honest I never really got the point with this machine. Since the handle is filed it's specific to train to get better at closing grippers. A normal grip machine can be used if you want to train just to get stronger, not necessarily to get better at closing grippers.

Just getting an adjustable gripper, like the vulcan or RB and file the handle is way better than using this type of machine as far as I see it. Since it will be way more specific training for closing grippers. It's also a much cheaper option.

I know adjustable grippers didn't exist when this machine was invented. But I would advice anyone to use it today.

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