Drill rod

[Fist of Fury]

I would ask them. Steel is heavy so shipping is always going to cost a bit. There's no way to get around that unless you find something locally near you.

[BottledCitrus]

1 hour ago, Fist of Fury said:

Did you check at mcmaster as I recommended? It's not more expensive than bolts my friend. You can get enough drill rod there for 60 bucks to train yourself to the red nail with no problem. You get 30 ft for 60-80$. That's a good deal. 

If I had that opportunity I wouldn't bother with anything else.

Follow up question. 
 

With the increments Im seeing is there any that should be skipped. For example I is .2720 and J is .2770,  could I simple skip J and buy K at .2810? 
 

And if Im understanding right you’d train with drill only if your goal was red? 
 

 

[Fist of Fury]

10 minutes ago, BottledCitrus said:

Follow up question. 
 

With the increments Im seeing is there any that should be skipped. For example I is .2720 and J is .2770,  could I simple skip J and buy K at .2810? 
 

And if Im understanding right you’d train with drill only if your goal was red? 
 

 

I would probably only train with drill rod if I could access it to a reasonable price. Same way I would train with small increments to get stronger at any lift.

Not sure what sizes is best for you. I haven't tried drill rod. I'm sure somebody else here can guide you in the right direction.

[BottledCitrus]

27 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

I'm sure somebody else here can guide you in the right direction.

I hope so.  but this place seems dead...

[Tom Flesher]

1 hour ago, BottledCitrus said:

Follow up question. 
 

With the increments Im seeing is there any that should be skipped. For example I is .2720 and J is .2770,  could I simple skip J and buy K at .2810? 
 

And if Im understanding right you’d train with drill only if your goal was red? 
 

 

You might find this helpful (or not, not sure if anyone linked it on the first page):

http://www.fatbastardbarbellco.com/Benders_Bag_Road_to_Bag_Screenshot.PNG
 

FBBC’s Road to... bag uses big jumps until the end of the line, where you do L, M, and N as very small incremental jumps before going on to the Bastard. I think that’s very reasonable.

What are you bending now? What’s an easy bend and what’s just out of reach?

[BottledCitrus]

5 minutes ago, Tom Flesher said:

You might find this helpful (or not, not sure if anyone linked it on the first page):

http://www.fatbastardbarbellco.com/Benders_Bag_Road_to_Bag_Screenshot.PNG
 

FBBC’s Road to... bag uses big jumps until the end of the line, where you do L, M, and N as very small incremental jumps before going on to the Bastard. I think that’s very reasonable.

What are you bending now? What’s an easy bend and what’s just out of reach?

Ive bent 60d and 1/4” crs

[Tom Flesher]

17 hours ago, BottledCitrus said:

Ive bent 60d and 1/4” crs

Are they easy or are you fighting for them?

[BottledCitrus]

7 hours ago, Tom Flesher said:

Are they easy or are you fighting for them?

Easy

[Tom Flesher]

Your next step might be to try some 1/4” square CRS and see how it feels. If you do well there you can probably just buy M and N drill rod, but if it’s very hard you could pick up the I and L too.

Roughly, 1/4x7” CRS will usually calibrate around 275 pounds. According to some theoretical numbers I have (that correspond well to the ratings people have done), I calibrates around 310, J around 330, K 340, L 380 (about like a 1/4x6 grade 5), M 400, N 420 (about the same as a 1/4x6 grade 8), and 5/16x7 CRS around 450. (Obviously steel varies.)

If you asked my opinion, and I don’t know why you would, I think there’s value in bending the L and N at 7” even if you bend the bolts easily because it’s valuable to bend mostly at 7” if you’re chasing the Red.

I hope this is helpful and I’m happy to answer whatever questions I’m capable of for you.

[BottledCitrus]

51 minutes ago, Tom Flesher said:

Your next step might be to try some 1/4” square CRS and see how it feels. If you do well there you can probably just buy M and N drill rod, but if it’s very hard you could pick up the I and L too.

Roughly, 1/4x7” CRS will usually calibrate around 275 pounds. According to some theoretical numbers I have (that correspond well to the ratings people have done), I calibrates around 310, J around 330, K 340, L 380 (about like a 1/4x6 grade 5), M 400, N 420 (about the same as a 1/4x6 grade 8), and 5/16x7 CRS around 450. (Obviously steel varies.)

If you asked my opinion, and I don’t know why you would, I think there’s value in bending the L and N at 7” even if you bend the bolts easily because it’s valuable to bend mostly at 7” if you’re chasing the Red.

I hope this is helpful and I’m happy to answer whatever questions I’m capable of for you.

So why is it imperative to bend a 7” bar if you can get the same theoretical poundage from a short cheaper material?  Is it just to get used to bending at that length?

[Tom Flesher]

11 hours ago, BottledCitrus said:

So why is it imperative to bend a 7” bar if you can get the same theoretical poundage from a short cheaper material?  Is it just to get used to bending at that length?

Your mileage may vary, but the leverages are significantly different. (If you don’t believe me, try grabbing some 8” stock.) As your bends get higher-level, there’s value in being able to have your technique dialed in as tightly as possible, and the experience of kinking at 6” is significantly different than kinking at 7”.

It’s possible you won’t run into any trouble with that, of course. But shorter stock at the same poundage is forgiving of a lot of flaws in the setup, being in different positions, etc. that longer stock won’t allow. Bending shorter stock requires more power but bending longer stock requires your technique to be on point.

Again, YMMV. I wouldn’t use the word ‘imperative,’ just that there’s value in your working bends being at the same length. 

[BottledCitrus]

2 hours ago, Tom Flesher said:

Your mileage may vary, but the leverages are significantly different. (If you don’t believe me, try grabbing some 8” stock.) As your bends get higher-level, there’s value in being able to have your technique dialed in as tightly as possible, and the experience of kinking at 6” is significantly different than kinking at 7”.

It’s possible you won’t run into any trouble with that, of course. But shorter stock at the same poundage is forgiving of a lot of flaws in the setup, being in different positions, etc. that longer stock won’t allow. Bending shorter stock requires more power but bending longer stock requires your technique to be on point.

Again, YMMV. I wouldn’t use the word ‘imperative,’ just that there’s value in your working bends being at the same length. 

Thanks for the schooling. This has been extremely insightful. 

[Tom Flesher]

My only caution is that I can only advise you based on my experience. I have shoulders like old rusty gears and I lose mobility when I don’t actively carve out time in each workout to spend doing face pulls and swinging clubs. For a completely different experience, @devinhoo(who I’m not sure posts here anymore) has really excellent mobility so for him bending an 8” bar is well within his normal comfort zone.

I feel like my best leverage comes around 6-6.5” so I have to dedicate a lot of effort to being able to bend at the “standard” 7” length. I’ll probably never bend a heavy 8” bar unbraced again unless I bend specifically at that length for a while. But that’s an awesome thing about steel bending - there’s something here for everyone, whether it’s chasing unbraced certs, bending giant braced bars, or snapping. 

[BottledCitrus]

3 hours ago, Tom Flesher said:

Your mileage may vary, but the leverages are significantly different. (If you don’t believe me, try grabbing some 8” stock.) As your bends get higher-level, there’s value in being able to have your technique dialed in as tightly as possible, and the experience of kinking at 6” is significantly different than kinking at 7”.

It’s possible you won’t run into any trouble with that, of course. But shorter stock at the same poundage is forgiving of a lot of flaws in the setup, being in different positions, etc. that longer stock won’t allow. Bending shorter stock requires more power but bending longer stock requires your technique to be on point.

Again, YMMV. I wouldn’t use the word ‘imperative,’ just that there’s value in your working bends being at the same length. 

Ive been seeing people state that they’ve never touched drill and went from 6” g5 and 8 and bent a red after volume training with bolts. Is there some truth to this? The volume training bit, could you simply  just bend a ton of bolts or crs and get super strong? 
 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by BottledCitrus

[bencrush]

On 1/19/2021 at 8:34 AM, BottledCitrus said:

Fair. But...
 

200 bolts for 60 usd, or what amounts to 15 pieces of drill for the same price. What would you choose? 
 

 

If my goal was a specific length of bar (let's use the Red Nail for example), I'd choose the 15 pieces of Drill Rod in a heart beat.  If my goal was a 6" bar that was a LOT harder than a 60D, then I'd choose the 15 pieces of Drill Rod every time.  

[Fist of Fury]

48 minutes ago, bencrush said:

If my goal was a specific length of bar (let's use the Red Nail for example), I'd choose the 15 pieces of Drill Rod in a heart beat.  If my goal was a 6" bar that was a LOT harder than a 60D, then I'd choose the 15 pieces of Drill Rod every time.  

Couldn't agree more. Bending to light stuff for volume will not make you much stronger at bending. It might give you better endurance, better pain tolerance and tougher skin (if you use less wrapping) but to be able to bend harder stuff you need to bend increasingly harder stuff.

[devinhoo]

Drill rod is great, it really fights back throughout the entire bend. I like to describe it to people that steel is rated to 30º, but that after the initial kink CRS often "gives up" a bit and us usually easier on the crush. In contrast, if a piece of drill rod is rated 500 lbs it stays 500 lbs through the kink, the sweep, and the crush. It ends up being an exhausting fight. The same day I bent my first Red Nail I also bent a few pieces of 19/64 x 7" drill rod and the Red Nail was a 30 second cakewalk in comparison.

It doesn't have to be horrendously expensive either. I get my drill rod from Zoro.com and it's usually around $4-6 per 3ft depending on what diameter you choose, so it often works out to about $1 per 7" bar which is not that much more expensive than bolts. Plus drill rod seems to be way more consistent batch to batch from the same supplier than buying random "weld steel" from the hardware store.

[BottledCitrus]

20 hours ago, devinhoo said:

Drill rod is great, it really fights back throughout the entire bend. I like to describe it to people that steel is rated to 30º, but that after the initial kink CRS often "gives up" a bit and us usually easier on the crush. In contrast, if a piece of drill rod is rated 500 lbs it stays 500 lbs through the kink, the sweep, and the crush. It ends up being an exhausting fight. The same day I bent my first Red Nail I also bent a few pieces of 19/64 x 7" drill rod and the Red Nail was a 30 second cakewalk in comparison.

It doesn't have to be horrendously expensive either. I get my drill rod from Zoro.com and it's usually around $4-6 per 3ft depending on what diameter you choose, so it often works out to about $1 per 7" bar which is not that much more expensive than bolts. Plus drill rod seems to be way more consistent batch to batch from the same supplier than buying random "weld steel" from the hardware store.

 

mcmaster is 41

diesupplies is 26

ive been seeing evidence here, on reddit and elsewhere that leads me to believe it really doesnt matter. You have people like you guys who swear by it, then you have people who did a g5,g8, g2  and smoked a red. 
 

strong guys across the pond dont even get the stuff and do fine as well. So in the end it seems to be personal preference. 

[BottledCitrus]

8 hours ago, devinhoo said:

Drill rod is great, it really fights back throughout the entire bend. I like to describe it to people that steel is rated to 30º, but that after the initial kink CRS often "gives up" a bit and us usually easier on the crush. In contrast, if a piece of drill rod is rated 500 lbs it stays 500 lbs through the kink, the sweep, and the crush. It ends up being an exhausting fight. The same day I bent my first Red Nail I also bent a few pieces of 19/64 x 7" drill rod and the Red Nail was a 30 second cakewalk in comparison.

It doesn't have to be horrendously expensive either. I get my drill rod from Zoro.com and it's usually around $4-6 per 3ft depending on what diameter you choose, so it often works out to about $1 per 7" bar which is not that much more expensive than bolts. Plus drill rod seems to be way more consistent batch to batch from the same supplier than buying random "weld steel" from the hardware store.

Just took a look on zoro. That place is practically giving drill rod away. Thank you for the link