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Event Selection for Grip Sport Contests - Where to Draw the Line?


Eric Roussin

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4 hours ago, climber511 said:

I have several World Masters Records because I seem to be the only guy that old to compete in those events.  But I don't feel bad about it - because all you young guns will someday be this old and have something to shoot for when you get here.  LOL 

I have arrived in the Masters class, but your records still look rather distant ... maybe I am just not old ENOUGH?

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7 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

I have arrived in the Masters class, but your records still look rather distant ... maybe I am just not old ENOUGH?

You still have plenty of time  - my last ones were in the 70 year old class :).  Go get em!

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12 hours ago, climber511 said:

 

 

Axles – two and one hand.  The problems here only seem to affect those who have hands strong enough to tax their low back – there a problem judging “lockout” here though.  One hand lifts have the same possible issues as Rolling handles but are usually only done to knee height.

 

 

 

 

DO axle deadlift are not that difficult to judge if you have eg competed in power lifting. The problem is that the judges are often doing a bad job referring (the LGC competition is not immune to this I might add). This is often manifested in a super fast down command before the lifter has locked out the lift or a down command even though the lifter has clearly not locked out the lift. People with experience in power lifting should have no problem judging this lift properly. When you are just below your capability in this lift you will be able to pull it almost all the way but you will be unable to fully lock out the shoulders. Almost invariably this hunched over 'lockout' gets the pass by the judges.

Another issue with this otherwise glorious lift is the huge variability in difficulty (up to about 10%) depending on the set up. The easiest set ups use only one pair of full size plates and flimsy collars whereas the hardest set ups use full size plates whenever possible and quality spinlock collars tightened hard as ....

Easily fixed though if organisers used full size plates and quality collars tightened hard between each lift.

Edited by Mikael Siversson
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10 hours ago, Vinnie said:

This is why I have enjoyed the arm lifting comps.  There's still some variation by seasoning, etc., but there are only a few commonly contested events, and thus more people ranked on them and a better idea of where you stand.  It's not that exciting to have a world record in something that only 9 people have ever attempted and will never be attempted again after you set it.

This is why why use much the same lifts in the LGC competition; grippers, Euro 2hp, axle...

I am probably holding some ultra obscure meaningless 'world record' in some grip lifts.

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6 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

Especially when 90% of events come down to hand size.

The width adjustable Euro pinch is a glorious exception. 

The hand size vs body weight debate is boring. We all know that none of us will ever change our opinion on this topic lol.

I think its mainly thick rolling handles and wide blobs etc that give people with a large wrap an obvious advantage.

From my own experience of competing in  many LGC competition the strongest competitor we have had has sub 8'' hands from memory but weighs over 300lbs (Martin Arildsson). 

 

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20 hours ago, Vinnie said:

This is why I have enjoyed the arm lifting comps.  There's still some variation by seasoning, etc., but there are only a few commonly contested events, and thus more people ranked on them and a better idea of where you stand.  It's not that exciting to have a world record in something that only 9 people have ever attempted and will never be attempted again after you set it.

I actually don't appreciate the inconsequential lift World Records:) In all seriousness, Iam surrounded by Hall Of Famers on every WR that I have held- that is something that I take lot of pride in. Would I rather hold the IM Axle WR? Do bears shi% in the woods?

1555017234_wr6.jpg.2cac6487229a7fc62297148e365ce176.jpg

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Somewhere in "the rules" it says something about the Masters World Records have to be a certain percentage of the class WR or something.   It varies by age group or something like that.  So a Masters WR can't simply be "show up" and lift something - they have to have some meaning I think. 

Found it

Masters Classes Masters – age on day of contest will be age used Standards - World Record minimum standards

Age 50-59 = 10% off the respective class record

Age 60-69 = 15% off the respective class record

Age 70-79 = 25% off the respective class record

Age 80+ = 40% off the respective class record

Edited by climber511
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8 minutes ago, climber511 said:

Somewhere in "the rules" it says something about the Masters World Records have to be a certain percentage of the class WR or something.   It varies by age group or something like that.  So a Masters WR can't simply be "show up" and lift something - they have to have some meaning I think. 

Found it

Masters Classes Masters – age on day of contest will be age used Standards - World Record minimum standards

Age 50-59 = 10% off the respective class record

Age 60-69 = 15% off the respective class record

Age 70-79 = 25% off the respective class record

Age 80+ = 40% off the respective class record

Chris, 

I don't think NAGS keep track of Master's WR anymore. I have handful of lifts that would qualify but no indication of "Masters WR" 

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5 minutes ago, Kluv#0 said:

Chris, 

I don't think NAGS keep track of Master's WR anymore. I have handful of lifts that would qualify but no indication of "Masters WR" 

It shows some (but not all) of my 60 to 69 records but none of the 70 year old class stuff set at the Last Gripmas.  If I was tech savvy enough I'd put them all up.

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1 minute ago, climber511 said:

It shows some (but not all) of my 60 to 69 records but none of the 70 year old class stuff set at the Last Gripmas.  If I was tech savvy enough I'd put them all up.

I know you have an extended list! I would need a case of snickers to read thru all of them, LOL

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20 minutes ago, climber511 said:

Somewhere in "the rules" it says something about the Masters World Records have to be a certain percentage of the class WR or something.   It varies by age group or something like that.  So a Masters WR can't simply be "show up" and lift something - they have to have some meaning I think. 

Found it

Masters Classes Masters – age on day of contest will be age used Standards - World Record minimum standards

Age 50-59 = 10% off the respective class record

Age 60-69 = 15% off the respective class record

Age 70-79 = 25% off the respective class record

Age 80+ = 40% off the respective class record

Oh wow, if I can just make it to 80!  lol  And Chris, don't quit yet, you would get every single record if you attended a few more comps!

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1 minute ago, Kluv#0 said:

I know you have an extended list! I would need a case of snickers to read thru all of them, LOL

It's the only advantage I can see in getting old LOL  In retirement it's nice to look back on and remember all the people I met and contests I did.  And my Track kids really enjoy showing it off to kids from other schools - the ole "my coach is stronger than yours" thing.  :) 

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I can confirm that all lifts entered I to the GSI database are tagged to the correct masters category. The user interface just doesn’t currently allow results to be searched in this manner. If this feature gets added, rest assured, the results will show up.

I can also confirm that the masters thresholds described a few posts above are not taken into account by the GSI database. Whatever the highest lift is by a masters lifter will show up at the top of the list, and consequently can be considered the world record.

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5 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

I can confirm that all lifts entered I to the GSI database are tagged to the correct masters category. The user interface just doesn’t currently allow results to be searched in this manner. If this feature gets added, rest assured, the results will show up.

I can also confirm that the masters thresholds described a few posts above are not taken into account by the GSI database. Whatever the highest lift is by a masters lifter will show up at the top of the list, and consequently can be considered the world record.

Thanks Eric for sharing your knowledge. You do a fantastic job with the entries on GSI website. The word I was looking for was denote- in far right column of lifts. However, makes perfect sense that highest lift by a Masters athlete is a WR. 

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16 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

I can confirm that all lifts entered I to the GSI database are tagged to the correct masters category. The user interface just doesn’t currently allow results to be searched in this manner. If this feature gets added, rest assured, the results will show up.

I can also confirm that the masters thresholds described a few posts above are not taken into account by the GSI database. Whatever the highest lift is by a masters lifter will show up at the top of the list, and consequently can be considered the world record.

Eric The problem I see is that my records set as a 70 year old don't show up "at all" - perhaps being due to higher lifts having been done in the Open / 60-69 Masters class earlier?  Perhaps a name cannot appear twice?  I would appreciate if you might look into this or me.  I can furnish the lift numbers I set as a 70 year old if you wish.  To Me anyway - it is important.  I was awful proud on my lifts that day (Last Gripmas) as a 70 year old.  

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33 minutes ago, climber511 said:

Eric The problem I see is that my records set as a 70 year old don't show up "at all" - perhaps being due to higher lifts having been done in the Open / 60-69 Masters class earlier?  Perhaps a name cannot appear twice?  I would appreciate if you might look into this or me.  I can furnish the lift numbers I set as a 70 year old if you wish.  To Me anyway - it is important.  I was awful proud on my lifts that day (Last Gripmas) as a 70 year old.  

I think what is probably happening is that the database is showing your top lift in a given event, in a given weight class, regardless of age category. It’s just an issue of sorting functionality. I can double check a couple of lifts for you, to ensure they were entered. If they were, then it will be up to Aaron Corcorran to decide if he wants to invest the time that is required to add this functionality.

As for the notation in the far right column, this is a manual input, and one that I don’t do when I enter results, as it would take too much time to verify if records were set in each age/weight class combination. But if this functionality gets added, there will not be a need for these notations.

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I would just like to add one thing about rim lifts, stirrup, and tips tester lifts. Open handed lifts like this can strain the A2 pulleys because those ligaments are not typically conditioned on the average athlete.
 

on the other hand, powerlifting causes countless soft tissue injuries because people use poor form and don’t have properly conditioned ligaments and yet nobody is calling for powerlifting to ban the deadlift. 
 

Is a lack of training really a reason to not contest an event? 

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4 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said:

I would just like to add one thing about rim lifts, stirrup, and tips tester lifts. Open handed lifts like this can strain the A2 pulleys because those ligaments are not typically conditioned on the average athlete.
 

on the other hand, powerlifting causes countless soft tissue injuries because people use poor form and don’t have properly conditioned ligaments and yet nobody is calling for powerlifting to ban the deadlift. 
 

Is a lack of training really a reason to not contest an event? 

I get the analogy but to be honest I don’t think it’s that simple. The vast majority of people know the powerlifting Movements and the majority of people involved in strength sports actually train them. Those grip events are not common place though so it’s not really the same. It’s also commonly known you can cripple yourself in powerlifting chasing 1 rep Max’s on full body lifts with massive weight. 

Edited by Chez
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17 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

adding a fingery event like the TipTester should not be discouraged

I actually wish it would be contested more. The half crimp position is used to carry thing, in climbing. Always seemed odd that we don’t see it much in contests.  

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2 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

I think what is probably happening is that the database is showing your top lift in a given event, in a given weight class, regardless of age category. It’s just an issue of sorting functionality. I can double check a couple of lifts for you, to ensure they were entered. If they were, then it will be up to Aaron Corcorran to decide if he wants to invest the time that is required to add this functionality.

As for the notation in the far right column, this is a manual input, and one that I don’t do when I enter results, as it would take too much time to verify if records were set in each age/weight class combination. But if this functionality gets added, there will not be a need for these notations.

At the Last Gripmas Carol in 2018 I did the following that would be 70 to 79 year old 93K weight class Masters Records.

20MM Block Set gripper - 125#

DH Euro Pinch - 217.33# for the same class record.   On extra attempts I did 232.33# (just information - didn't count as a record - just made me feel good LOL)

IM Axle DO DL - 336.54# for the same class record

For the first time ever I beat Andrew Durniant in the Medley

Also not a record but made FBBC list was a FBBC 2 3/8" Axle DO DL of 308# - just bragging at this point.  :) 

Sorry to get off topic on the "safety" thread of certain events.

 

Edited by climber511
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8 minutes ago, climber511 said:

At the Last Gripmas Carol in 2018 I did the following that would be 70 to 79 year old 93K weight class Masters Records.

20MM Block Set gripper - 125#

DH Euro Pinch - 217.33# for the same class record.   On extra attempts I did 232.33# (just information - didn't count as a record - just made me feel good LOL)

IM Axle DO DL - 336.54# for the same class record

For the first time ever I beat Andrew Durniant in the Medley

Also not a record but made FBBC list was a FBBC 2 3/8" Axle DO DL of 308# - just bragging at this point.  :) 

Sorry to get off topic on the "safety" thread of certain events.

 

I plan to take down your gripper record for Masters 70+ in 2039, but otherwise I don't see me threatening any of your marks lol

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Just now, Vinnie said:

I plan to take down your gripper record for Masters 70+ in 2039, but otherwise I don't see me threatening any of your marks lol

Not even right now at 51 lol

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13 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said:

I actually wish it would be contested more. The half crimp position is used to carry thing, in climbing. Always seemed odd that we don’t see it much in contests.  

Agree/disagree.  As a climber I have trained for years on open hand tips but I've also (as a climber) had tendon tears on both hands doing so on hard crimps over the years.  They take forever to heal.  I've also heard from climbers that we need to eliminate the Axle Deadlift portion because climbers often don't have the back strength and deadlift technique to do that safely.  I was actually close to being in that camp at one point where my Axle DL almost equaled my regular DL.

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1 minute ago, Vinnie said:

I plan to take down your gripper record for Masters 70+ in 2039, but otherwise I don't see me threatening any of your marks lol

That record shouldn't actually exist - it's kind of an embarrassment to be honest.

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3 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

I plan to take down your gripper record for Masters 70+ in 2039, but otherwise I don't see me threatening any of your marks lol

Lol. Take the gripper record from the guy who probably hates grippers the most on the board haha

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