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Event Selection for Grip Sport Contests - Where to Draw the Line?


Eric Roussin

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Over the years there has been debate about which events are considered safe and which ones are considered unsafe for including in grip sport contests. Do you think there should be a line with respect to events that should never be included in major contests? Or, do you think that while the risk of injury may be higher for some events than others, it’s not a reason to exclude them from contests?

If you think some events should never be featured, which lifts (or types of lifts) should be banned?

How important do you think it is for a contest host to cater to individual concerns? For example, there are some lifts that I know that it would be dangerous for me to push, due to my elbows being messed up from years of armwrestling. If I am the only one among 50 people with this limitation, I wouldn’t expect a promoter to consider this in event selection. But if 25 of 50 have a concern, then serious thought should be given. What should be considered a critical mass?

Feel free to answer as many of the above questions as you’d like. I think there’s an opportunity for some good discussion to be had.

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Hey Eric, 

Misel Here from GRIP NL, I feel all events should be included and kept. I myself find flask almost impossible with my horrible thumbs injured and reinjured, but I just try to up my game on the other events. Since most comps have a variety of lifts it gives you ability to strategize and plan ahead to work with what you can. I can’t wait to see others opinions but honestly I love the challenge and working around aspect. With my fused wrist I can’t rise my right hand in armwrestling but I just train and work around what styles I can use.  

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It’s always hard to draw a line and you can’t tell anyone not to have an event at their comp but I do think there are events which are naturally more dangerous. They just involve more risk of injury. V bar, rim lifts, the tips tester to me all have more inherit risk. I only do this sport for fun so if I see anyone of those events I have decided not to compete at that comp. I would rather compete in the events which are safer like grippers, pinch, rolling handles etc. another problem with these more dangerous events is new people to grip. They may show up and because they don’t know the risk and proper technique they have even more chance of injury. Obviously they sign a waiver but no likes to see injuries. It could turn a new person off to the sport.

Edited by Chez
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I'm no longer active in Grip Sport but I have been injured several times with certain events.  Besides the obvious skin tears I hurt my low back fairly bad on 1" V Bar.  I remember enough issues with the lift that it practically disappeared in training and competition.  Rim lifts (and the Tips Tester I invented) have been the cause of some pretty bad tendon injuries over the years.  I invented it to help with my climbing and my personal idea was for reps and holds for climbing purposes.  We (meaning the old "Board") had several discussions about events for competition - covering not only safety but time factors etc.  Many lifts might be considered dangerous when individual prior injury histories are considered but there just might be a few that are dangerous for almost anyone.  The Table Top Wrist Curl comes to mind - and I would put the 1" V Bar in with it if it were me.  There are others I'm sure different people would include.  We have never had a lawsuit that I'm aware of but in today's society it will happen someday - I know I thought about it back when I promoted.  It may be time for a serious discussion of what makes a good training lift a not so good competition lift.

Edited by climber511
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Another thing Is for some these more dangerous events, I have literally never seen anyone go over proper technique and injury prevention which is especially important for new comers. Some of these events like the tips tester, technique and risks are not super common sense cause the event is so much different than anything else 

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22 minutes ago, climber511 said:

It may be time for a serious discussion of what makes a good training lift a not so good competition lift.

^This is part of what I’d like to see discussed in this thread.

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I'm fine with everything. I believe part of being an athlete is knowing what you're capable of and knowing when to be a bit more conservative. The only exceptions I could see would be silly lifts like a barbed wire hold, or something where if an apparatus broke it could lead to injury. General if anything goes wrong you can just drop whatever you have and be fine, unlike the danger during a heavy bench or squat. 

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Been saying it for years. But I’ll repeat anyways..

what’s wrong with just a single crush event, a single pinch event, and a single thickbar event? And leave all the extra fancy stuff to a medley if you decide you want those implements part of the comp? I mean the strongest guy still wins regardless of how “diverse” you to try to stack events/implements in your comp. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I don’t even own a ton of grip stuff and already have too much coin invested.

$4-500 in grippers and ratings

$480 in an inch DB

$250 or so in blobs

$200 in my inch trainer

Im hub, RT, 2 loading pins and I’m somewhere near $1,750 in just grip equipment that mostly just clutters up the garage. And that’s not including the bending stuff I did for a year and a half or so.

I know for certain that many of you reading likely have 2 or even 3 times that amount in grip equipment. But that’s because many of you simply don’t want to show up at a comp not ready for a new implement, so you buy it and train with it to be ready for that event at a comp. I won’t fault you for that. However, you’re being had imo.

its now to the point that one needs to either be an equipment manufacturer, or a grip equipment collector to even be able to host and or be ready for something like King Kong annually.

Btw, the 1” VBAR aside, I don’t remember many people getting injured at comps back in that era when it was mainly grippers/axle/euro.

...not physically anyways. 😂

Edited by Tommy J.
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1 hour ago, Climber028 said:

I'm fine with everything. I believe part of being an athlete is knowing what you're capable of and knowing when to be a bit more conservative. The only exceptions I could see would be silly lifts like a barbed wire hold, or something where if an apparatus broke it could lead to injury. General if anything goes wrong you can just drop whatever you have and be fine, unlike the danger during a heavy bench or squat. 

It’s also a whole lot easier to hurt yourself on those dangerous lifts the stronger your body gets cause it’s easier to over power those small muscles and tendons in the  hand, wrist and forearm. In the dangerous lifts it’s easy to get hurt without the device just dropping. If a really strong person goes all out of those lifts things go south quick before the device just slips.Now the traditional lifts like pinch and rolling handles I agree. You will either dont lift those or they just slip. Chris rice and I just discussed this through messenger and it’s the friction lifts which are safe and will just drop or not break the ground 

Edited by Chez
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injuries are parts of the game. but they should not rule the game.

we design our competetions for athletes from 9 to 99 years.

so many fancy events from the former years are out. like one handed barbell press or circus inch dumbell transfers to overhead and turkish getups. 

we also closed the books for rim lift, tiptester, stirrup and climbing boards.

mostly problems are not deep injuries, but open skins, so we put event wich force skin ruptures always to the end of the comps. so 9mm Mini Vbar, Orbi grip for time and spike snapping are mostly finishing moves.

our comps have runtimes of 8 to 12 hours, so mental concentration is also a keypoint for injuries, but until now, after ~51 tournaments over the years we had never loosed a limb.

 

 

Edited by corefire
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17 minutes ago, corefire said:

injuries are parts of the game. but they should not rule the game.

we design our competetions for athletes from 9 to 99 years.

so many fancy events from the former years are out. like one handed barbell press or circus inch dumbell transfers to overhead and turkish getups. 

we also closed the books for rim lift, tiptester, stirrup and climbing boards.

mostly problems are not deep injuries, but open skins, so we put event wich force skin ruptures always to the end of the comps. so 9mm Mini Vbar, Orbi grip for time and spike snapping are mostly finishing moves.

our comps have runtimes of 8 to 12 hours, so mental concentration is also a keypoint for injuries, but until now, after ~51 tournaments over the years we had never loosed a limb.

 

 

I agree and love that you got rid of the really dangerous stuff. Skin tears are minor. Just hate to see the major stuff like tendon tears on super dangerous events.

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Here's a couple statements I stand by.

I'll never use my influence to doctor what a promoter decides as events. I've been called a Grip Nazi in the past and I don't want to be called that again.

Regarding safety, I think it's important to consider, and once someone experiences an injury to their hand or arm that is too the point that it requires surgery, then that even becomes a red flag to me.

Rim Lifts, Tips Tester, and other crimping events have caused serious risk and injury due to tendon/pulley tears. I watched my partner, Luke, severely injure his right middle finger in April due to the Tips Tester, and he had to miss training until like September.  I would rather not take part in a contest with a Rim Lift, because I, myself, injured pulleys on both hands in one training session on it back in 2011.  I would rather not take the risk on Tips Tester either, to be honest.  

However, if it's a contest such as North Americans, I can't sit here and say, "Oh boy, it's got Tips Tester in it, I ain't going." I would feel like a straight-up vagina if I did that.  Instead I would probably try to bring up all the other events and then just do a few token lifts on the Tips Tester to get on the board.

At the same time, until you've had that cataclysmic injury take place, it's hard to know what it's like.

At this point, when I hear that multiple people have had season one career threatening injuries from an event, the likelihood of me contesting it stop significantly, because I don't want to see anyone get hurt. Unfortunately, I've watched two videos tear right on front of my face, due to the Adjustable Thick Bar and 2" Vertical Bar, both of which were events I was rubbing as part of multi-venue comps where the events were decided by others.

Please feel free to respond or ask direct questions and tag me for more detail.  Thanks for the consideration on this topic @Eric RoussinRoussin. All the respect in the world for you. 

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Chris makes a great point about what makes for excellent training(for some) might not be wise to have in a contest. I really like the Tips Tester and I know it makes me stronger in other areas of grip(like the Tips Tester, LOL). However, I always put a disclaimer on my vids to be careful when using the TT and that I would advise NOT maxing on it. I had the TT at contest 2 years ago and many were complaining of funkiness in fingers- that is not good and I wont have that at my contest again. I

I believe every contest should have a sledgehammer or pickaxe event. Although they can hurt you if not conditioned, at least you can train(be creative)without having to buy specific implement.

One last point, everybody would agree that anything "could" injury somebody- Heck, I hurt my middle finger tendon on the freakin IM hub last Decmeber and still not the same. But, like what was mentioned above, any max lift finger tip pressure, etc really brings up level of unsafe contest and not really fun experience.

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11 hours ago, Chez said:

It’s also a whole lot easier to hurt yourself on those dangerous lifts the stronger your body gets cause it’s easier to over power those small muscles and tendons in the  hand, wrist and forearm. In the dangerous lifts it’s easy to get hurt without the device just dropping. If a really strong person goes all out of those lifts things go south quick before the device just slips.Now the traditional lifts like pinch and rolling handles I agree. You will either dont lift those or they just slip. Chris rice and I just discussed this through messenger and it’s the friction lifts which are safe and will just drop or not break the ground 

I'm not saying it's not easy to injure yourself, I just think that's irrelevant. A lot of activities are dangerous, people can decide as an adult whether they want to take on that risk or not. If someone doesn't like an implement or thinks it's dangerous you either skip that event, or do a light lift just to get on the board. If you think something is super dangerous just give a little speech at the beginning for new people and then everyone can make an informed decision. 

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A lot of what I put into a comp coincides with the strengths of my competitor base. That said I'll pretty much only steer clear of the "finger pulley baddies" but I was putting the tips tester into the last comp. I'm not inclined to remove events that folks have pre-existing conditions or weaknesses that they can't optimize their strengths on like Dinnie lifts, double overhand axle, etc. Not everything suits me the best but it's good for the people that come out to compete.

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 Coming from a lifetime of competing and promoting strongman, where "dangerous" events are just the lay of the land, I feel a little risk adds to the adrenaline of competing..  I've ruptured both biceps, shattered a patella, tore an ACL, ect that's how it goes if you do it long enough....   

HOWEVER, here in Saskatchewan we try to include all age groups/experience level in our gripsport comps, 14 to 75 years old .. maybe a tips tester or 1' V-bar max are not smart choices for a fun event, I know I'd hate to see an injury, even if they were warned of the risks and trained it a bit.

But, If there was a pro invitational event, like North Americans, and one of the events is an established but  "risky", so be it.  All the athletes there will be (should be) well associated with the risks and trained up appropriately.  If they don't want to do it, they don't want to win, that's my 0.02. 

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Grippers – I can’t remember many competition injuries – training injuries do happen – usually with negatives or Secret Weapon type training and palm bruises.

 

One and two hand pinch events – injuries seem limited to skin cuts and/or tears.  Very wide can give thumb strain type injuries and I’ve torn the side of a thumbnail when it slipped under load (no big deal).

 

Tips Tester and Rim Lifts – Injuries here can be pretty serious – usually tendon tears in the palm or pulley injuries - or complete ruptures of same.

 

Rolling Handles – one hand can cause some low back issues on smaller handles when weight gets heavy and one “leans” to lift higher.  Two hand lifts seem much safer.  It would be possible to get thumb injuries similar to wide pinch with a really big handle.

 

Axles – two and one hand.  The problems here only seem to affect those who have hands strong enough to tax their low back – there a problem judging “lockout” here though.  One hand lifts have the same possible issues as Rolling handles but are usually only done to knee height.

 

Misc lifts that lift only smaller weights – it varies of course but you seldom see big injuries here.  Hub seems to cause some issues due to the side stresses on fingers but no big injuries I know of.

 

Little Big Horn and V bar lifts – Skin tears are a problem but the real issue here is biceps tears which can be devastating – not so much on LBH

 

Sledge Levering – to the face hasn’t been held often except the “Supported” (in a safety cage) event I held several times at Gripmas (one and two handed for either reps or to a max).  It hurt to do but no one actually got injured that I’m aware of.  The Sledge Choke also hurts to do but I haven’t personally seen an “injury” – but several “tweaks”.

 

I’m making no judgements – just offering a few of my thoughts.  Perhaps there are ways to make some of these better/safer with a change or two – I don’t know.  I like the idea of lifting to a “bar” etc for example that is used often now days.  Grip is fascinating in that there are so many ways it can be tested – but I don’t think it’s necessarily a good idea to have main events that might cause “major” injuries.  The idea that Tommy put forth of 3 main events and then a huge Medley like in the old days still appeals to me.    

 

PS Please notice I said nothing negative about Grippers LOL

 

 

Edited by climber511
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7 hours ago, BradProv said:

 Coming from a lifetime of competing and promoting strongman, where "dangerous" events are just the lay of the land, I feel a little risk adds to the adrenaline of competing..  I've ruptured both biceps, shattered a patella, tore an ACL, ect that's how it goes if you do it long enough....   

HOWEVER, here in Saskatchewan we try to include all age groups/experience level in our gripsport comps, 14 to 75 years old .. maybe a tips tester or 1' V-bar max are not smart choices for a fun event, I know I'd hate to see an injury, even if they were warned of the risks and trained it a bit.

But, If there was a pro invitational event, like North Americans, and one of the events is an established but  "risky", so be it.  All the athletes there will be (should be) well associated with the risks and trained up appropriately.  If they don't want to do it, they don't want to win, that's my 0.02. 

This is 100% truth, unfortunately.

It will come down to a person's willingness to risk that injury or sacrifice points.

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47 minutes ago, climber511 said:

The idea that Tommy put forth of 3 main events and then a huge Medley like in the old days still appeals to me.   

I honestly like it also. It’s off topic but we have so many different implements that it can expensive trying to keep up. I know people like variety but right now anyone with welding ability can create something. Putting them in a medley is A decent idea while saving the main events for the core movements  

Edited by Chez
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36 minutes ago, Chez said:

I honestly like it also. It’s off topic but we have so many different implements that it can expensive trying to keep up. I know people like variety but right now anyone with welding ability can create something. Putting them in a medley is A decent idea while saving the main events for the core movements  

This is why I have enjoyed the arm lifting comps.  There's still some variation by seasoning, etc., but there are only a few commonly contested events, and thus more people ranked on them and a better idea of where you stand.  It's not that exciting to have a world record in something that only 9 people have ever attempted and will never be attempted again after you set it.

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33 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

This is why I have enjoyed the arm lifting comps.  There's still some variation by seasoning, etc., but there are only a few commonly contested events, and thus more people ranked on them and a better idea of where you stand.  It's not that exciting to have a world record in something that only 9 people have ever attempted and will never be attempted again after you set it.

Amen to that ^

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50 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

  It's not that exciting to have a world record in something that only 9 people have ever attempted and will never be attempted again after you set it.

Even more hilarious is to have the weight class record cause you were the one person in the class at the one competition the event was contested 😂

Edited by Chez
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I have several World Masters Records because I seem to be the only guy that old to compete in those events.  But I don't feel bad about it - because all you young guns will someday be this old and have something to shoot for when you get here.  LOL 

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3 hours ago, Chez said:

Even more hilarious is to have the weight class record cause you were the one person in the class at the one competition the event was contested 😂

Especially when 90% of events come down to hand size.

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4 hours ago, Chez said:

Even more hilarious is to have the weight class record cause you were the one person in the class at the one competition the event was contested 😂

I have a couple where it was less than 10 people who ever attempted it, but none where I am the only one, thank you.  lol

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