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HARD TO HANDLE Tournament - What is the HARDEST Thick Bar Rolling Handle on the Market?


Jedd Johnson

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Ivan Pupchenko
On 11/18/2020 at 11:52 PM, WestSlope said:

It will be interesting to know which is the hardest rolling handle. More important to me is whether I want to train and compete with the device and is the rolling resistance consistent over time. I would rather train and compete with metal handles than with the plastic or composite handles of the RT or Country Crush. It seems like the Bear Grips and LGC might be my choice regardless of difficulty.

If you want to win, you have to train on the handle that will be on the competition. More spinning handles will display smaller numbers due to the "opening" of the wrist and load on the fingertips and thumb. With a handle of the same diameter but less rotation, you can pull with a more bent wrist, loading the stronger phalanges closer to the palm and reducing the load to the larger one. I think that almost everyone involved in this discussion understands this. By training on a bear grip handle, much more rotating than any RT - you will never reach your maximum on RT ...

 

 

 

As for Silarukov, different batches are painted with different paints, respectively, the friction and coupling are different. In recent years, the paint on all of their handles is mate, but the depth of texture may vary. In addition, when dropped, chips form on the painted surface - which also changes the friction. These are the disadvantages of any painted device, such as Im a hub, for example, or Im pinch blocks ...

Once Denis Shmarev even quarreled with me during a discussion of this feature. He likes the colored version, but I don't like the lack of consistency and not knowing what texture your opponent is lifting on - I'm not a fan of lottery. Everyone remained with self opinion..

Edited by Ivan Pupchenko
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I'm going to be running an ongoing video series called HARD TO HANDLE.  It will be a bracket-style tournament to crown the HARDEST Thick Bar Rolling Handle on the Market today. I have many handle

Guys, take it to private message. 

The record for LGC on competition with the strikt LGC-rules is 95 kg by Håkan Carlsson. Håkan has lift 97 kg on training. Kalle Laine has lift, if I remember correctly,  just under 90 kg on competitio

On 11/20/2020 at 4:35 AM, Alawadhi said:

Mikael got really upset when he was intentionally arguing what a 98kg inch dumbbell is and everyone told him he knows. I then said that + he can't sleep at night if he doesn't criticize. He was upset and told me in another thread that I offended him. I said if that really offended him then I apologise. He didn't reply. Now you see him use words like stupidity. I don't understand him! I really hate it when someone doesn't want anyone to criticize him, yet he does and use offensive words. 

Now, Mikael is right that tilt lifts is way different than "correct" lifts. They are easier.

Rolling handles are not the same as thick dumbbells/inch dumbbells. Yes there is a cross over but it is not same.

Doing only strict lifts on inch dumbbells does not mean at all you can rep it more using tilt. Assuming you don't train tilt at all.

Laine uses tilt of implement at the starting position putting all necessary loading on his wrist and then his hand is about zero tilt at the top. 

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Mikael Siversson
On 11/18/2020 at 9:20 PM, Hubgeezer said:

I don’t think it is much of a stretch Mikael. Look at the 2020 King Kong results.

Carl Myerscough won with 120.1 Kgs. Jedd came in 17th, just under 99.

Based on what Laine was doing just prior to KK, it would not be unreasonable for Laine to have pulled more than Carl.

 

But now you are comparing competition lifts when you have to perform on a given day, regardless of the form, with a training lift. People tend to post training feats when they are at peak strength.

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Wannagrip

This was a great idea and I have never been a handle guy but it's fun watching and listening to Jedd.  Great job Jedd!  

 

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Mikael Siversson
On 11/20/2020 at 10:35 AM, Alawadhi said:

Mikael got really upset when he was intentionally arguing what a 98kg inch dumbbell is and everyone told him he knows. I then said that + he can't sleep at night if he doesn't criticize. He was upset and told me in another thread that I offended him. I said if that really offended him then I apologise. He didn't reply. Now you see him use words like stupidity. I don't understand him! I really hate it when someone doesn't want anyone to criticize him, yet he does and use offensive words. 

Now, Mikael is right that tilt lifts is way different than "correct" lifts. They are easier.

Rolling handles are not the same as thick dumbbells/inch dumbbells. Yes there is a cross over but it is not same.

Doing only strict lifts on inch dumbbells does not mean at all you can rep it more using tilt. Assuming you don't train tilt at all.

 

On 11/18/2020 at 12:44 AM, Fist of Fury said:

Ok Mr.Scientist. Keep comparing apples to oranges.

I know you always want to "win" arguments. That's why it's so tiring to read your comments.

Let's take it one more time.

"How many times have you seen Jedd lift 150 kg on the RT or 130 on the crusher? About zer0 times dude."

Mr Fist of Fury set up the strawman argument by first implying something I never said (i.e., that Jedd could pull the same numbers on a rolling handle as Laine) and then attacking that unsupported inference (i.e., by the comment "About zero times dude'). This is a clear example of strawman argumentation. My criticism was constructive in as much as it does not reflect well on people using this particular style of arguing. 

As I explained to you Alawadhi I too sometimes resort to insults when I loose my patience a bit. I think most lose their patience when confronted by strawman tactics (be it intentional or unintentional).

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climber511

I have only owned Rolling Thunders - 3 of them over the years (None now).  I have used a couple other types owned by someone else but being honest I don't like any rolling handle as well as a thick handled dumbbell or bar.  I can't really say why exactly but for me at least I haven't found the carryover from a rolling handle to anything else the same as with a short or long fat bar.  (Your mileage may vary)  I like the higher pick with the handle but I can do the same with a DB or bar with a box or two.

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3 hours ago, climber511 said:

I have only owned Rolling Thunders - 3 of them over the years (None now).  I have used a couple other types owned by someone else but being honest I don't like any rolling handle as well as a thick handled dumbbell or bar.  I can't really say why exactly but for me at least I haven't found the carryover from a rolling handle to anything else the same as with a short or long fat bar.  (Your mileage may vary)  I like the higher pick with the handle but I can do the same with a DB or bar with a box or two.

Was the carryover you experienced with the thick dumbbells and barbells to climbing or to other grip sport implements?

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climber511

The regular thick bar (both DB and Axle) seemed to help everything else some - including climbing type strength.  The rolling handles didn't seem to help anything except maybe wide pinch a little bit.

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Jedd Johnson
On 11/20/2020 at 8:53 PM, Ivan Pupchenko said:

If you want to win, you have to train on the handle that will be on the competition. More spinning handles will display smaller numbers due to the "opening" of the wrist and load on the fingertips and thumb. With a handle of the same diameter but less rotation, you can pull with a more bent wrist, loading the stronger phalanges closer to the palm and reducing the load to the larger one. I think that almost everyone involved in this discussion understands this. By training on a bear grip handle, much more rotating than any RT - you will never reach your maximum on RT ...

 

 

 

As for Silarukov, different batches are painted with different paints, respectively, the friction and coupling are different. In recent years, the paint on all of their handles is mate, but the depth of texture may vary. In addition, when dropped, chips form on the painted surface - which also changes the friction. These are the disadvantages of any painted device, such as Im a hub, for example, or Im pinch blocks ...

Once Denis Shmarev even quarreled with me during a discussion of this feature. He likes the colored version, but I don't like the lack of consistency and not knowing what texture your opponent is lifting on - I'm not a fan of lottery. Everyone remained with self opinion..

Regarding paint or no, Luke hit the ball on the head with truck bed liner paint on the Napalm's Nightmare, if you ask me. You can buy it anywhere and reapply it if it wears down. Problem solved for the most part.

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Jedd Johnson
On 11/21/2020 at 1:29 AM, Stanislav said:

Laine uses tilt of implement at the starting position putting all necessary loading on his wrist and then his hand is about zero tilt at the top. 

I'm gonna have to review some videos to verify that claim.  It seems unreasonable to be able to level out a rolling handle at the top, like with an Inch Dumbbell, for instance, but I could be wrong.

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Ivan Pupchenko
7 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

Regarding paint or no, Luke hit the ball on the head with truck bed liner paint on the Napalm's Nightmare, if you ask me. You can buy it anywhere and reapply it if it wears down. Problem solved for the most part.

Silarukov is painted with powder paint, which dries in a special drying chamber with very high temperature; ordinary matte paint from a spray will never give such relief and will never be so strong. The problem is not whether it is painted or not, but that the product is positioned as standardized and with completely similar parameters of different copies in different batches. But in fact, the depth and structure of relief of such a paint depends on the drying temperature, the thickness of the layer and, naturally, on how the technology for manufacturing a particular batch of paint was followed. In fact they are very different. I held 5-6 of their handles in my hands, and some were smoother with a shallow texture, while others were very "rough" ... The difference when lifting will be like on well-seasoned aluminum handle and on a well-seasoned ordinary metal handle...

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climber511

This is starting to remind me of the discussion that was had several years ago about standardized competition equipment.  How do we make equipment that allows someone in Europe - Asia - or the Americas to compete in a totally fair manner for accurate comparison purposes?  Seasoning of metal (alum or Steel) is very hard if not impossible to duplicate completely.  The answer is likely to prove expensive.  

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Jedd Johnson
48 minutes ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

Silarukov is painted with powder paint, which dries in a special drying chamber with very high temperature; ordinary matte paint from a spray will never give such relief and will never be so strong. The problem is not whether it is painted or not, but that the product is positioned as standardized and with completely similar parameters of different copies in different batches. But in fact, the depth and structure of relief of such a paint depends on the drying temperature, the thickness of the layer and, naturally, on how the technology for manufacturing a particular batch of paint was followed. In fact they are very different. I held 5-6 of their handles in my hands, and some were smoother with a shallow texture, while others were very "rough" ... The difference when lifting will be like on well-seasoned aluminum handle and on a well-seasoned ordinary metal handle...

Believe me, I can't stand when products vary. I'm all about consistency for the discussion product.

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Jedd Johnson
7 minutes ago, climber511 said:

This is starting to remind me of the discussion that was had several years ago about standardized competition equipment.  How do we make equipment that allows someone in Europe - Asia - or the Americas to compete in a totally fair manner for accurate comparison purposes?  Seasoning of metal (alum or Steel) is very hard if not impossible to duplicate completely.  The answer is likely to prove expensive.  

And also unnecessary, in my opinion.

Some additional thoughts...

My preference, bare steel or commonly available rough paint. Other than that, get good at everything and train as Specificity as possible for the comp.

Standardization is overrated in my opinion. As much as I hate aluminum and plastic pisses me off, the stronger you get the better you are on all handles. Throw in experience and nimbleness, and you're even better off.

I've already learned a lot about handle differences and appropriate approaches just by doing the HARD TO HANDLE tournament and set a 9# PR in today's matchup that featured the Raptor.

And also, training on a variety of handles gives you better carryover to all handles, care in point, I have not trained on the RT since March and I got 251# on the current model yesterday.

All the best.

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Ivan Pupchenko
1 hour ago, climber511 said:

The answer is likely to prove expensive.  

I agree. We can make difference to minimum and keep the price in reasonable limits. If the surface of aluminum or steel has not been deliberately processed, for example, acid etching or shocks, or months of soaking in salt water - a too thick layer of oxide film simply falls off with repeated lifts. By the end of the fourth attempt on KK, with 15-20 participants, the shine of metal is already visible. Therefore, I try to get maximum for the 3rd, on the 4th the handle is too slippery for the maximum weights. If someone starts to wipe LBH or the crusher from chalk with a rag, then the 2nd approach may already be the last ... A painted surface with relief paints will give too much variation in the coupling parameters.

In 2015, we received a crusher at the post office just before the competition, and removed the oiled paper from it before the first attempt - it's sad to remember our results on it. Painted handles can potentially make the same difference as an oiled new crusher and well seasoned but not intentionally aged.

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Ivan Pupchenko
1 hour ago, Jedd Johnson said:

 

Standardization can only be considered overestimated until you see what you've added in a year of hard training, say 5kg. And the person about whom you know for sure that he practically did not train - 10 or 15. Then you will immediately think about whether everything was "standard" with a crusher on another platform? ... Sometimes half a year passes, or two years and you see a photo of inventory from another location, and you realize that you just couldn't win ...

And handles painted with "variable" paints can give a big difference without any malicious intent ...

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