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Natalia Kravchenko - a few episodes from training with grippers - CoC-1,5 deep set att., CoC-2 - 2sec SB hold, CoC-2,5 parallel set att. (51kg bw)


Ivan Pupchenko

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Ivan Pupchenko

Hi friends! I want to share several episodes of Natalia Kravchenko training with grippers. I feel that she has talent. She trains the grip for less than six months (with grippers - 3-4 months), and weighs 51kg. On the video - attempt to DS close CoC-1.5 , the first attempt to hold bullet with CoC-2 (2 seconds) and attempt of seting CoC-2.5 in parallel.

 

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gripmaniac

Certainly some potential there for sure.

Ivan, Do you think a MMS of a CoC #2 is something Natalia would eventually be able to achieve?  Considering her hand size a CCS might be a bit too hard . . .

 

 

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Maiche 25

Extremely impressed and all with very small hands indeed. I'm going to copy her technique to set a gripper, I find it as perfect as mine is filthy ... And mine is horrible

Edited by Maiche 25
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Ivan Pupchenko
10 hours ago, gripmaniac said:

 

 

 

I think that closing CoC-2 from a parallel as well as a narrower distance for a woman weighing 50-55kg is real. Depending on the presence of 'genetic talent' and free time (which for adult person with a family and children is never enough) - this can take up to 3 years. But it is achievable! As for the CCS - even with a 19cm male hand this is not easy. This is most dependent option from anthropometry. Therefore, I believe that the ability to close from the card first of all means that a person has a big hand, and only then - that this hand is strong ...

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Ivan Pupchenko
5 hours ago, Maiche 25 said:

 

So far, I would say that she does not have technique) But she already begins to independently feel the erroneous positions of fingers and handles on the palm of her hand and independently correct the errors. This is the first step. Watch the video by Gil Goodman, where he explains the positions of the handles, drawing places for them on the palm of his hand. This is the best and most affordable for a beginner from what I saw. If a person doesn’t have enough of my explanations in the gym (after all, everyone learns new motoric skill in different ways and requires different approaches) - I always recommend this video for independent study and it always helps!

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Chez

Very strong work for a light woman. If she improves her set strength and efficiency she will progress even more 

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Fist of Fury

I wish there was more women training grip and grippers in particular. I'm really interested to see how far women can go with grippers. Only three names are Captains of Crush and not a single certification since 2013 :( Which is a shame, way too few I think.

Would be cool with MM0 with the #2/GHP5 also I think!

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Maiche 25
2 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

So far, I would say that she does not have technique) But she already begins to independently feel the erroneous positions of fingers and handles on the palm of her hand and independently correct the errors. This is the first step. Watch the video by Gil Goodman, where he explains the positions of the handles, drawing places for them on the palm of his hand. This is the best and most affordable for a beginner from what I saw. If a person doesn’t have enough of my explanations in the gym (after all, everyone learns new motoric skill in different ways and requires different approaches) - I always recommend this video for independent study and it always helps!

Thank you very much I will look very seriously at his work. I manage to do 22 CCS repetitions with my COC 1.5 and I still have trouble regularly performing 1 MMS repetition with my COC 2 ... There must be some technical gain!

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Maiche 25
1 hour ago, Fist of Fury said:

I wish there was more women training grip and grippers in particular. I'm really interested to see how far women can go with grippers. Only three names are Captains of Crush and not a single certification since 2013 :( Which is a shame, way too few I think.

Would be cool with MM0 with the #2/GHP5 also I think!

Rebecca Roberts the strongest woman in Europe seems not only to have the strength to be certified for the coc 2 but also the 2.5, she would then be the first to do so.

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Fist of Fury
40 minutes ago, Maiche 25 said:

Rebecca Roberts the strongest woman in Europe seems not only to have the strength to be certified for the coc 2 but also the 2.5, she would then be the first to do so.

It's not very likely to happen anytime soon. Paul has been waiting to do certifications for years. They train together so it seems like she's taking the same route. Would be happy to be wrong about that though.

Mashmonster grippers for females would be cool to see and it shouldn't be too difficult to set that up. Starting from #2 level and up.

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Ivan Pupchenko
6 hours ago, Chez said:

Very strong work for a light woman. If she improves her set strength and efficiency she will progress even more 

Thanks Cesare! She shows a great desire to train grip with gripperses and other devices that used for KK. The desire to train and motivation to win is the most important thing - I really hope that she can prove herself in this sport!

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Ivan Pupchenko
6 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

 

I agree! But I think that mms CoC-2 for the average female hand is heavier than CoC-3 for the male. The first step is to attract those who want to try their strenght - like CoC-3 for men's certification. This gripper is not easy, but it is real for everyone, the only question is the time required to close ... For female MM0, I think CoC-1.5 would be more appropriate

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Ivan Pupchenko
5 hours ago, Maiche 25 said:

 

Most people should have enough 22 closing with one number to switch stably to another. There are two variants why you can’t do this. The first is a large imbalance in the development of muscles that move the nail phalanges and those following them (this is a big topic in anatomy and biomechanics. It is clear that every flexors of the fingers work during the movement, but the emphasis, focusing of the loads is very different when moving one nail phalanx at the beginning of the closing and following in the middle and final part). This problem can be solved in two ways - smart and not so smart.
Not smart - it's just hollowing the target movement with different grippers until the muscles can do what you want. And smart is the use of auxiliary exercises and intensification of loads in problem areas of amplitude. Like short or deep squats or bench presses with different amplitudes, dead lifts from coasters or from the 'cellar', or using pauses in problem points. There are many possible options, and this is a great field for your brain work and creativity...
The second variant is the wrong technique. Most people with a small hands, having problems in working with wide grippers, move the "back" handle closer to thebig finger, which would make it easier to put on four work-fingers, but makes the last 15-10mm practically impassable. This is a dead end and erroneous path. You need to learn how to put the "back" handle closer to the 4 work-fingers and start moving with the index and middle , only after then connecting the rest. In the final part, finishing the last 5mm with help of your  big finger thumb ...

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Maiche 25
12 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

Most people should have enough 22 closing with one number to switch stably to another. There are two variants why you can’t do this. The first is a large imbalance in the development of muscles that move the nail phalanges and those following them (this is a big topic in anatomy and biomechanics. It is clear that every flexors of the fingers work during the movement, but the emphasis, focusing of the loads is very different when moving one nail phalanx at the beginning of the closing and following in the middle and final part). This problem can be solved in two ways - smart and not so smart.
Not smart - it's just hollowing the target movement with different grippers until the muscles can do what you want. And smart is the use of auxiliary exercises and intensification of loads in problem areas of amplitude. Like short or deep squats or bench presses with different amplitudes, dead lifts from coasters or from the 'cellar', or using pauses in problem points. There are many possible options, and this is a great field for your brain work and creativity...
The second variant is the wrong technique. Most people with a small hands, having problems in working with wide grippers, move the "back" handle closer to thebig finger, which would make it easier to put on four work-fingers, but makes the last 15-10mm practically impassable. This is a dead end and erroneous path. You need to learn how to put the "back" handle closer to the 4 work-fingers and start moving with the index and middle , only after then connecting the rest. In the final part, finishing the last 5mm with help of your  big finger thumb ...

Thank you for your great answer, I prefer your smart solution rather than the one which is not even if it is more tempting because easier indeed, no mental effort to do. I have no small hands and I tend to do just the opposite, that is to say placing the gripper too far from my big finger which makes the start of the movement significantly harder and tired to finish it. I will follow your advice and try to reach a more balanced position in my palm, I very much appreciate your help.😀

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Ivan Pupchenko
4 hours ago, Maiche 25 said:

Thank you for your great answer, I prefer your smart solution rather than the one which is not even if it is more tempting because easier indeed, no mental effort to do. I have no small hands and I tend to do just the opposite, that is to say placing the gripper too far from my big finger which makes the start of the movement significantly harder and tired to finish it. I will follow your advice and try to reach a more balanced position in my palm, I very much appreciate your help.😀

I will be glad if in something helped you! Have a good workouts, friend!

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Hopefully
6 minutes ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

I will be glad if in something helped you! Have a good workouts, friend!

Regarding the "muscles that move the nail phalanges", are you talking about imbalance of profundus and superficialis here? It's my understanding that profundus is the primary mover of the distal phalanges. And why would this be a reason one can't close the 2 but can dominate the 1 as in the example here? 

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Maiche 25
52 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

Regarding the "muscles that move the nail phalanges", are you talking about imbalance of profundus and superficialis here? It's my understanding that profundus is the primary mover of the distal phalanges. And why would this be a reason one can't close the 2 but can dominate the 1 as in the example here? 

Hi, in my case it is a coc 1.5 not a coc 1 that I manage to do 22 repetitions, I had not seen that Ivan had put with a COC 1 in his message. With a coc 1 I have already managed 31 repetitions. My coc 2 seems particularly hard, however.

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Hopefully
47 minutes ago, Maiche 25 said:

Hi, in my case it is a coc 1.5 not a coc 1 that I manage to do 22 repetitions, I had not seen that Ivan had put with a COC 1 in his message. With a coc 1 I have already managed 31 repetitions. My coc 2 seems particularly hard, however.

Yeah 

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Fist of Fury
1 hour ago, Maiche 25 said:

Hi, in my case it is a coc 1.5 not a coc 1 that I manage to do 22 repetitions, I had not seen that Ivan had put with a COC 1 in his message. With a coc 1 I have already managed 31 repetitions. My coc 2 seems particularly hard, however.

22 reps with let's say a 83# 1.5 will not mean you will close a #2 at, let's say 115#.

 

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Maiche 25
8 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

22 reps with let's say a 83# 1.5 will not mean you will close a #2 at, let's say 115#.

 

 
Yes I think it should be 115 to 120 lbs, when I dominate it a normal 2.5 should not resist me very long at least🙂
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Ivan Pupchenko
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

22 reps with let's say a 83# 1.5 will not mean you will close a #2 at, let's say 115#.

 

 

6 hours ago, Maiche 25 said:

Hi, in my case it is a coc 1.5 not a coc 1 that I manage to do 22 repetitions, I had not seen that Ivan had put with a COC 1 in his message. With a coc 1 I have already managed 31 repetitions. My coc 2 seems particularly hard, however.

I proceed not only from my experience, but also from experience, for example, Igor Kupinsky. This experience says that most (not all) are able to close  next number after 10+ reps with previous CoC. For example, I closed my CoC-3 ccs with 67.5 kg oiled and 69.8 without oil after 8 ccs with CoC-2.5 57.1 oiled kg.  4 people who closed this CoC-3 ccs - 3 was possible after 10 ccs with CoC-2.5 and one after 14. But all these people fully trained, with accent to their problem points with different closing variants...

120 # CoC-2 is a heavy thing from hell. I think if I ever hold one in my hands, then I will remember this day. I had occasion to see and close normal, non-cheating CoC-2.5 by 118 #

I think the reason for its hard load is in unseasoning. And a decrease of quality of the springs in the last batches of CoC. In recent years, CoC has been very tough from the package and is very weaken in first time. Several people calibrated their CoC-4 for 100-104 kg from the package, and after 50-100 cheast crashes received 96-95 kg. CoC-4 from 2010-12 from the package was 96-98kg, and after a year (!) of training they had 94-92.5kg ...

Your CoC-2 just needs to be well seasoned and you don't recognize it!

Edited by Ivan Pupchenko
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Ivan Pupchenko
7 hours ago, Hopefully said:

Regarding the "muscles that move the nail phalanges", are you talking about imbalance of profundus and superficialis here? It's my understanding that profundus is the primary mover of the distal phalanges. And why would this be a reason one can't close the 2 but can dominate the 1 as in the example here? 

Yes, I meant flexor digitorum superficialis and flexor digitorum profundus. My english is not so good as I think - I know about it, sorry! If I have not forgotten the anatomy of the past 20 years,  the first bends the middle phalanges, and the second - nail (distal) ..

And if we talk about working with grippers - many forget about the muscles located on the palm ...

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Fist of Fury
39 minutes ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

 

I proceed not only from my experience, but also from experience, for example, Igor Kupinsky. This experience says that most (not all) are able to close  next number after 10+ reps with previous CoC. For example, I closed my CoC-3 ccs with 67.5 kg oiled and 69.8 without oil after 8 ccs with CoC-2.5 57.1 oiled kg.  4 people who closed this CoC-3 ccs - 3 was possible after 10 ccs with CoC-2.5 and one after 14. But all these people fully trained, with accent to their problem points with different closing variants...

120 # CoC-2 is a heavy thing from hell. I think if I ever hold one in my hands, then I will remember this day. I had occasion to see and close normal, non-cheating CoC-2.5 by 118 #

I think the reason for its hard load is in unseasoning. And a decrease of quality of the springs in the last batches of CoC. In recent years, CoC has been very tough from the package and is very weaken in first time. Several people calibrated their CoC-4 for 100-104 kg from the package, and after 50-100 cheast crashes received 96-95 kg. CoC-4 from 2010-12 from the package was 96-98kg, and after a year (!) of training they had 94-92.5kg ...

Your CoC-2 just needs to be well seasoned and you don't recognize it!

I would agree with that number in general but not for the #1.5-#2 because the #1.5 is too close to the #1 and some #2's can be quite close to 120#.

I could do more than 25 reps on the #1.5 before I could close anything around #115.

However, with grippers in other ranges, the 10+ rep estimation is usually correct. 

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Hopefully
1 hour ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

Yes, I meant flexor digitorum superficialis and flexor digitorum profundus. My english is not so good as I think - I know about it, sorry! If I have not forgotten the anatomy of the past 20 years,  the first bends the middle phalanges, and the second - nail (distal) ..

And if we talk about working with grippers - many forget about the muscles located on the palm ...

It's fine Ivan!

But why would this imbalance affect grippers?

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Ivan Pupchenko
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

It's fine Ivan!

But why would this imbalance affect grippers?

The first quarter or third of the movement performed mainly f. d. profundus, and the last quarter or third - almost only f.d.superficialis. Even though the role of f. d. profundus in the final is greater than the role of f.d.superficialis at the beginning of the movement ... And then genetics and specific of the nervous system come in. Those who progress well in wide closing - learn this variant very quickly. Literally from the first training. And those who begin this difficult, can learn this variant, but with the first slightest injuries, missed training, they will lose indicators primarily in wide closures and in a much smaller one in a short amplitude. Now I'm talking about people with palm 19cm or less. With a longer hand, the working fingers do not lie on the handle with distal phalanges, but at least with the joints behind them, or even the beginning of the middle phalanx. For a palm of 20-22 cm, the ccs is an analog of a 35-40mm block for a palm of 18-19cm ...

  Here is the hand of a man who closed a heavy grip 300 with a wide set without any grip training, and CoC-3 after a month of training. For the tns CoC-3 he took less than six months of work. Dynamometry after a day of hard physical work - 140-142.9 kg! B.w -  95kg. Dynamometry was checked on the apparatus, on the full analogue of which David Shamey and Valeriy Tolstyh were tested (if you know these names) - their best indicators are 137-139kg

 

 

 

 

IMG-76ed0c9ba57c36a4e52b5f57c5dcec1f-V.jpg

IMG-d68bf79635e7615895df4bec79216122-V.jpg

Edited by Ivan Pupchenko
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