Jump to content

Volume training and feeder workouts.


Bartosz Robert

Recommended Posts

Hi guys!

What do you think about workouts with many reps?

Workouts that focus on metabolic stress not on strength. 

With about 30% - 40% of RM. 

For example I can close COC #2,5, so I take a COC Sport or Trainer and do 100 reps. Propably a workout to failure. 

What do you think about programming your trainings one day for strength and another one as a feeder workout? 

Is volume good? 

What about training in a 2 to 1 system? One day strength, one day volume, one day rest. 

Hope you guys doing good. 

I would appreciate all your answers 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking about the pump. You know the good feeling. When I train for strength I can't feel it. But with a good amount of reps I can finally reach it. No pain, no gain, with that I think about fatigue. 

I remember one video of Jeff Cavaliere about Metabolic stress. 

Do you @Hopefullyremember Rich Piana and his claims that feeder workouts are good?

Those big drop sets:

https://growthatmuscle.com/rich-piana-feeder-workout/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only high volume stuff I do involves dexterity, been real into sledgehammer fingerwalks lately, dexterity balls for a long time now. I guess extensor bands don't require much dexterity and I do those all the time with pretty high volume.

You'll need some sort of active recovery and bloodflow work, but 100 reps on a trainer isn't really the best way to go about it. Wrist roller would be better than that, and I'm not a fan of wrist rollers.

Not that I'm super strong, but I've been through the "doing grippers too often" phase immediately followed by the "my elbows won't stop hurting" phase, and the stuff I mentioned above will help you stay healthy.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my training days (3 times a week) I do up to 12 single reps on my heaviest grippers. My days off I have a trainer like gripper that I rep out for about 50 reps on the day (5 rep max each set with long breaks) just to promote blood flow into the hands and aid recovery. Mix this with some banded extensor work and basic stretching of the hands and wrists.

You will get a little stronger by just pumping out reps, but by far the best method of getting stronger crush strength is to close/attempt heavier grippers.

Edited by bruce1337
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hopefullythe problem with heavier grippers is that my skin and calluses get easily irritated or torn for example: I can easily go 30 reps on #1 or my rb130; I can without a problem do 15 reps on #1,5. The problem with this are my hands, they end up red and shaking. 3 sets of 15 is a sure thing that my hand ends up with a burning sensation sometimes a blister. But my forearms don't get a pump.

@bruce1337 on my better days I do 5 reps with a #2 or a single #2,5 isn't really a problem. Sometimes I do cheated reps with the help of the other hand. 

I don't want the pump to get me stronger. I'm just curious if the pump will get me a bit bigger in the long run.

@wobbler

I like the dexterity work I play with rubberbands and plasticine. I also play guitar daily. I do stretching every day. 

I must confess before the coronavirus pandemic I worked out in the gym almost everyday, also occasionally I've done cardio twice a week. Now I do pull ups since March 20 (almost every day I pull up 3 sets - 14or12 - 10or8 - 8or6) 

Never had an injury or tendinitis. Just blisters from time to time. 

Those pump workouts is a fresh idea of mine. I've done 5 of them and I consider if it can benefit me. 

Pump in my forearm is something I felt rarely in my life. I like the pump from wrist flexion exercises and I find the pump from 100 reps similar. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do them already. :) :) :)

Wrist curls and  mazurenko armwrestling implement (something like a rolling thunder). 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adjustable grippers are good, if you're having skin/blister problems consider changing the handles somehow (athletic tape, or something a little smoother) and be sure to file down any calluses.

P.s. this section tends to be a little dead, mostly for just logging workouts. You'll get more response in "general."

Edit: in "gripboard" section, didn't it used to be named "general" ?

Edited by wobbler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ivanko super gripper always gave me a great pump! I don’t have the one with gripper handles...just the original. My coc grippers never give a pump.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@wobbler I got all the adjustable versions of the RB 

Even these without knurling and those  with knurling. Rb deluxe. 

 

_20200514_131230.JPG

Edited by Bartosz Robert
As a prove of my words
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today I made my 7th feeder workout, I thought I going to up the volume. I wanted to see if I can feel the pump multiple times. I've have done 400 reps with a 50 pound gripper. 4 sets 120 - 120 - 60 - 100. My hand, wrist, elbow are OK. Basicly nothing happened.

Could I feel the pump more than once?

The answer is yes and no, I felt the pump 3 times in the 120 and 100 reps. The 60 reps session was just a muscular failure. After this workout my forearm looks like a map and I must add that vascularity isn't my strong point. 

Was it tiring? No. 

I came to a conclusion: that even a feeder workout needs a progression (sorta progressive overload method) with adding weight form time to time. 33% RM is sorta good, but after 3 or 4 weeks gets kinda light.

Even if the 1RM doesn't go up. It's still worthy to have a pump here or there. 

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE "PUMP"? 

How many times have you experienced the "pump"? 

Is it good in your opinion? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Bartosz Robert said:

Today I made my 7th feeder workout, I thought I going to up the volume. I wanted to see if I can feel the pump multiple times. I've have done 400 reps with a 50 pound gripper. 4 sets 120 - 120 - 60 - 100. My hand, wrist, elbow are OK. Basicly nothing happened.

Could I feel the pump more than once?

The answer is yes and no, I felt the pump 3 times in the 120 and 100 reps. The 60 reps session was just a muscular failure. After this workout my forearm looks like a map and I must add that vascularity isn't my strong point. 

Was it tiring? No. 

I came to a conclusion: that even a feeder workout needs a progression (sorta progressive overload method) with adding weight form time to time. 33% RM is sorta good, but after 3 or 4 weeks gets kinda light.

Even if the 1RM doesn't go up. It's still worthy to have a pump here or there. 

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE "PUMP"? 

How many times have you experienced the "pump"? 

Is it good in your opinion? 

If your looking for forearm pump I find supination, pronation, ulnar/radial deviation, and flexion/extension plate curls to be the most effective... not sure they are all named correctly but bss has a good video under the wrist mace product. Do 10 reps of each of these as 1 set and it can get almost uncomfortable like my skin is going to tare from too much blood flow.

I don’t know of a hand pump go to exercise, maybe finger walks on a sledge.

Edited by monstrosity
Renamed bbs to bss
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shal9097

I made a deadlift with 180 kg, squat with 150 kg and bench with 115 kg. 

Can I show you this? No. 

Why?  Because I don't do those exercises anymore, I'm not in training that way anymore, I cannot bench more that 100-95 kg now. (last time I wanted to do more than 100 it was a complete disaster.). My squat went down to 120 kg. My deadlift to 140 kg. 

I've closed the RB adjustable with the heavy spring on 5th notch, COC 2,5, RB 210, GHP 5 and those Chinese heavy grip 250. 

Can I do this any time? No 

Can I show you this? No. 

Why not? 

It's a parallel situation to other lifts. I can close a 2,5 only when I'm actually in a good shape and mood. Now I'm doing a comeback, I'm totally out of shape. I can send you a video, where I close a #2 and that's max for today. 

I'll upload it.  Because I don't want to dissapoint you ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have closed a #2 but I couldn't close a weak #2,5 there was about a 1 centimeter left to close it completely. 

It's simply not my day. 

The harder ones won't even bugde. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hopefully 

My technique is crappy. I will try harder to improve in that matter. My set technique is lacking because untill now I don't needed to set my grippers for example: I've done a no set 1,5. 

My English is bad too. I learn new words and grammar everyday.I will do my best to improve my pronunciation. 

My dream is to close the #3 before 2021.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is an another one: 

It's a "no set" I simply lay a gripper on my hand, place it properly and close it, without choking it with another hand. 

I know that "credit card set", "ghp certification set", "parallel set" exist. But I never tried them. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hopefully

Is training 2 times a week for strength and 2 times for pump bad? Should I train grippers less often but more for strength? 

What should I change? 

So I  closed a #2,5 without any technique, and it's not a bad thing. :)

So maybe my dream will come true and I will close the #3 before December 31st. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@monstrosity

Besides grippers I do pronation exercises with rubber bands and cables. I'm a armwrestling newbie ;)  I do sparring once in a while. Radial deviation and wrist flexion  is very important for armwrestling. I do these things with dumbells and a plate and towel. Plate curls, plate pinchers and of course sparring. My last sparring was 3 weeks ago. After armwrestling I feel a good pump. 

I've done a few flexion exercises on a roller and on a wrist wrench this week.

 I don't know if wrist extension exercises will be profitable for me. Those aren't the exercises that have the same movement patterns with grippers. I've never done or seen any ulnar deviation exercise. Ulnar deviation isn't recommended for armwrestling. 

Maybe all those exercises could have a carry over to grippers, dunno.

I'm trying everything. 

Edited by Bartosz Robert
There was a few mistakes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

@Bartosz Robert

2 times a week with only singles, 10x1 or something like that is what I would recommend. With overcrush each rep. There are many ways, read some workout logs and stuff to see what gripper entusiasts are doing and alter it to your tastes. 

And ditch the pump workouts, they serve no purpose and will most likely hinder your progress. If you absolutely must achieve a pump for some reason then finish your strength workouts with one high rep set to failure using occlusion training. 

And yeah you could easily achieve the 3 with a mms set at least before the years end. It requires you to spend time to learn that technique though. Watch some videos and analyze the details etc. 

Honestly this just isn't the case, high rep gripper workouts can be really effective and they don't hinder your recovery, you will typically recover faster from these than cns dependant workouts. Bigger forearm and hand muscles = higher strength. Bodybuilders get much stronger as they build up the size of the muscles, and contrary to what's often believed, the vast majority of pro bodybuilders are very strong. The number one method of bodybuilding is indeed chasing the pump and remember this is time under tension dependant, not rep dependant, that's why rep ranges often alter for different exercises. To achieve the same kind of time under tension with a gripper it takes a high number of reps as of course it's a much shorter movement than typical excerises. 

By the way I'm not saying lower rep ranges or even singles are not useful as well, they absolutely are, just saying higher reps can be very effective, especially to build a base to strength build off of.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

I know the importance of hypertrophy. It is a simple concept. 

So to achieve this you agree that he should do sets up into the 100s for optimal hypertrophy development? 

Got any proof that chasing the pump itself while disgarding intensity completely is an effective method for hypertrophy? 

Depends what you mean by intensity, but there's lots of proof that training to get a pump is an effective method for building muscle.

As for 100 reps, I wouldn't typically go that high as it tends to be too much time under tension, though I like to use full range of motion on this so if you did mms reps for example you could definitely go to that or higher. The most I'd typically recommend with full range is around the 80 rep range with a gripper that's very light for you then gradually increase the resistance over time, eventually getting to typical rep ranges people use for grippers, but most being significantly higher and it would be for multiple sets each workout. It's always been an effective method for everyone I've used it with, it was the programme I had Becca on before she did a hard #2.5 ccs and 10 no set reps on #2 (her best was 2 no set reps on #2 previously).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hopefully

I found a few articles that are an explanation for pump. I used Google: Pump and hypertrophy, muscle pump, hypertrophy, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, myofibrillar hypertrophy. I've read it all and came to a conclusion: 

The way you are suggesting me to train is for strength. That's how myofibrillar hypertrophy works. 

Maybe on strength days I should do more technique and focus on doing things the correct way. 

I don't think the feeder workouts will hinder my recovery. I also know that that's not a way to build strength, but size helps with strength. 

On 5/14/2020 at 5:17 PM, Paul Savage said:

Depends what you mean by intensity, but there's lots of proof that training to get a pump is an effective method for building muscle.

As for 100 reps, I wouldn't typically go that high as it tends to be too much time under tension, though I like to use full range of motion on this so if you did mms reps for example you could definitely go to that or higher. The most I'd typically recommend with full range is around the 80 rep range with a gripper that's very light for you then gradually increase the resistance over time, eventually getting to typical rep ranges people use for grippers, but most being significantly higher and it would be for multiple sets each workout. It's always been an effective method for everyone I've used it with, it was the programme I had Becca on before she did a hard #2.5 ccs and 10 no set reps on #2 (her best was 2 no set reps on #2 previously).

@Paul Savage thank you for your understanding. 

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy  is what I name the pump. Training for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy involves high number of reps. That's why I find that my muscles can recover quickly and workouts aren’t too strenuous. Central nervous system wise I could not train for strength x 4 or x 5 times a week.  In relation to the muscle gained that way, the strength gain is low. In a long run it's not a problem.

So you programmed workouts with a rep range of 80 reps? 

How long does it took for Becca to get to the hard #2,5? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bartosz Robert said:

@Hopefully

I found a few articles that are an explanation for pump. I used Google: Pump and hypertrophy, muscle pump, hypertrophy, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, myofibrillar hypertrophy. I've read it all and came to a conclusion: 

The way you are suggesting me to train is for strength. That's how myofibrillar hypertrophy works. 

Maybe on strength days I should do more technique and focus on doing things the correct way. 

I don't think the feeder workouts will hinder my recovery. I also know that that's not a way to build strength, but size helps with strength. 

@Paul Savage thank you for your understanding. 

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy  is what I name the pump. Training for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy involves high number of reps. That's why I find that my muscles can recover quickly and workouts aren’t too strenuous. Central nervous system wise I could not train for strength x 4 or x 5 times a week.  In relation to the muscle gained that way, the strength gain is low. In a long run it's not a problem.

So you programmed workouts with a rep range of 80 reps? 

How long does it took for Becca to get to the hard #2,5? 

The progression to grippers seems to be an extremely complex phenomenon in itself and very variable between individuals. I can only make assumptions, theories like you but nothing convinces me.

With no training at all   I tried a coc 2 and a coc 1 at a friend's house 10 years ago. At that time I closed them with two hands almost no set when I had absolutely no physical training whatsoever, total sedentary. It was extremely hard but by getting very angry it was definitely closed. I barely closed coc 1 more easily than coc 2 which is really strange but true.

10 years later I begin to train with grippers (I'm still not doing any physical activity, just grippers )and I could try again these old grippers at this friend's house, they are as hard as my own coc 2 and coc 1 and I get the same new results even stranger than 10 years ago that is to say that the coc 1 is now very easy, I do 25 CCS repetitions with a coc 1 and I rarely close the coc 2 with MMS ... I think that muscularly I am much stronger than 10 years ago thanks to training but now my CNS is completely flat, I was only 28 years old and it was maybe much better than now. In any case all these facts make me think like most of the members of the forum that the grippers training is above all nervous adaptations especially in a beginner like me, but basically I don't know, it's just fascinating in any case!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


 

 


 

 

I also do 20 CCS repetitions with a 1.5 coc, logically a 2 coc should be possible with MMS, but this is not the case just sometimes when I am in good shape

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/14/2020 at 4:41 PM, Hopefully said:

I am not aware of any. Afaik it's bro science territory. The pump itself doesn't mean much. And although high reps with low load has proven to be able to promote hypertrophy, It has also been proven to not be the most effective way. 

But lets leave it, there is never any point in discussing these things, also I have little if any interest in doing so. People never come to an understanding or agree in the end. There are lots of effective ways. He can train singles, a hybrid, cycling, dup, whatever. We can write him a whole book on how to train and why, in several different ways. 

 

Paul's coached me to two world titles in grip and to a very high level on grippers. He's also helped others to achieve your goal of the #3, he coaches people to do it. He's doing that for a reason, he has done it for 15 reps! You should be a lot more open minded imo, especially when it comes to those more advanced than you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.