Carryover from MMS to wider sets

[dean_redzic]

I am sure this gets discussed more than I can find by searching, but I am curious on what people think.

Narrow sets on grippers such as 20mm and MMS, do they help build strength in wider sets (CCS or GHP challenge). I know specificity is king, but if you spent a lot of time working on MMS, then moving to  a wider set for a few weeks would you be stronger? Or should you be spending all your time working on the specific set until you reach your goal?

I think I read that Chez likes to work with narrower sets to build strength, then moves onto the specific set of the certification or competition. 

Thoughts?

Edited February 24, 2020 by dean_redzic

[Stephen Anderson]

In my opinion i think the crushing movement in general will get you stronger. I believe there is carryover. But im not a master i just know what works for me. 

[Fist of Fury]

How much direct carry-over you will get will depend greatly on hand size (finger length). The longer fingers you have the better carry-over you will get because you'll be able to place the gripper in the same position in the hand, giving you basically the same leverage as with MMS. The shorter you fingers are the less carry-over there will be.

If you place the gripper further back, which you need to do if your fingers are shorter you're not going to use your fingers in the same way, you're not even going to train your muscles the same way.

[Chez]

unless your hands are very small. Building your MMS will trickle down to to wider closes as well. most guys can CCS a average 3 when they can MMS somewhere in the 165-175 range. MMS is the quickest way to build power. once you get it high enough, you just need to practice the wider set a bit to get ready for it. Going from wider to narrow set is usually much harder since more technique is required to set efficiently and MMS lets you get in the harder part of the close for your working sets with harder grippers which you would have a harder time getting to with a wide set. Grippers are different than weights in that way, they get harder as the handles get closer so working MMS lets you work with harder grippers in their hardest range.     

Edited February 24, 2020 by Chez

[dean_redzic]

1 hour ago, Fist of Fury said:

How much direct carry-over you will get will depend greatly on hand size (finger length). The longer fingers you have the better carry-over you will get because you'll be able to place the gripper in the same position in the hand, giving you basically the same leverage as with MMS. The shorter you fingers are the less carry-over there will be.

If you place the gripper further back, which you need to do if your fingers are shorter you're not going to use your fingers in the same way, you're not even going to train your muscles the same way.

 

44 minutes ago, Chez said:

unless your hands are very small. Building your MMS will trickle down to to wider closes as well. most guys can CCS a average 3 when they can MMS somewhere in the 165-175 range. MMS is the quickest way to build power. once you get it high enough, you just need to practice the wider set a bit to get ready for it. Going from wider to narrow set is usually much harder since more technique is required to set efficiently and MMS lets you get in the harder part of the close for your working sets with harder grippers which you would have a harder time getting to with a wide set. Grippers are different than weights in that way, they get harder as the handles get closer so working MMS lets you work with harder grippers in their hardest range.     

I have no idea what a small hand would be. Mine are 19.5cms (7.677 inches) 

but both these replys are perfect

Thanks

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, dean_redzic said:

 

I have no idea what a small hand would be. Mine are 19.5cms (7.677 inches) 

but both these replys are perfect

Thanks

Those aren't small. More average. you are good. and there are two techniques for the CCS. one is starting the gripper on the mid-line of your hand (where you hand bends at knuckle to put your hand at a 90 degree angle)  like you would for standard MMS which gives you the most leverage. If you use this method you most likely won't be able to start with your pinky on the gripper (only longer hands can). So you have to start with the other fingers to walk the gripper in and put the pinky on when you can. I believe Paul Knight does this. I don't. I place the gripper further back in my hand sacrificing some leverage to start with my pinky on the gripper. I have 8" hands.  

Edited February 25, 2020 by Chez

[gripmaniac]

In my experience MMS with a static hold or squeeze (I wouldn’t call it an attempted close) using a hard(er) gripper definitely helped with my wider sets on my (easier) target gripper.  It was a little brutal – but I reckon it was definitely worth it.

I was doing these although with some choked (handles almost parallel) gripper closes.   Breaking down and specifically training segments of a gripper close made for a nice change up on “gripper training”.

[Fist of Fury]

10 hours ago, dean_redzic said:

 

I have no idea what a small hand would be. Mine are 19.5cms (7.677 inches) 

but both these replys are perfect

Thanks

Really doesn't matter how long you hand are, it's how long your fingers are that matters the most. I have a decently long hand but my fingers are short in reletaion to the palm. CCS are a huge problem for me because of this.

[Fist of Fury]

6 hours ago, Hopefully said:

My goal is IM cert, and my hands are pretty much exactly 7.5. 

I feel that I need to devote time for wider sets as well to get good at them. Only mms doesn't cut it. I have had success with switching sets in my training when I plateau at one of them. Then when I switch again, I have gotten stronger on the other set too. Although it takes a couple of workouts to adapt to the movement to see it. 

Training with these are the most inconsistent, difficult, weird thing I have ever tried to get stronger at. When I analyze my training log, the only consistent clear thing that I can learn from it (what works and not) is the above. 

Probably mms gives you the most power, so I'd say it's the base of your training so to speak. Then wider sets for more neurological practice. Basically. I get stronger from wide sets also though so I dont think mms is the end all be all method. 

That's because training different sets, if you're using different finger placement will train train the muscles differently. It's not the same workout. That's why you get sore as hell from thickbar and not from MMS grippers. You can get sore if you do a lot of wide set grippers as well.

[Fist of Fury]

6 hours ago, Hopefully said:

I don't really understand what you mean. That there isnt direct carry over because it's a different movement? Well, of course. If you don't have above average hands (finger length) just like you said. It's makes perfect sense why Paul knight for example can only train mms and still excel at wider sets. 

I mean that you don't train your muscles the same way if you squeeze something on your fingertips instead of further down the fingers. It hits the muscles completely different.