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Race to raw 375 T&G bench thread!!!


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Tommy J.

Oh and at first, the injections hurt like hell in the following days after a shot. Felt like someone threw a baseball at my asscheek. That has since stopped. Basically don’t even feel them anymore.

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Smoked 375.3 tonight   wish I’d have done this sleeveless so I can bow out of the race and await the winner of the bottle. However, I’m sticking to my guns. It has to be 100% raw,

Went ahead and hit 4 plates in the red SS today also. Homie ATG been wanting to see this one fall I think. Here it is brother! Total weight is 407 and some change.   sorry for the

Sorry for the lack of posts.... still hittin it tho.  

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WestSlope

The help it's given you with sleeping could account for almost all of the benefits. Your total is still in the normal range from the little bit I found from searching the internet.

Thanks for the insight, Tommy. There has to be a hundred lurkers that find your story interesting if not valuable.

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Aaron Jacobs

Nice job Tommy.  5 degrees in my garage gym so taking a hiatus until it warms up a bit.  I'll get there someday.  Only way forward for me is to keep increasing volume.  

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Tommy J.

@WestSlope
Thanks man. I have no qualms about spilling the beans. While I’m no world record case of strength, I still do feel what I’m doing here may be the only ACTUAL, factual, real world in depth tell all that most have come across their entire life.

and again, I appreciate you asking real questions. As opposed to the douche bag ones. Like “how much do you think it helps?” and “how much do you take?” Followed by a “ah cmon man... it’s gotta be more than that.” As if going out of their way to ask a rhetorical question they think they already have the answer to.


Next part is not directed at anyone in particular. Only covering it so it wont be overlooked, and because EVERY variable needs to be taken note of if you plan to do the same.

 

For those actually paying attention to numbers, all that Orwellian double speak of questions I mentioned above can easily be skipped. Because the numbers don’t lie. As much as I know the TRT isn’t solely responsible, others might tend to think different. Regardless of how hard I aim my pointer finger at ALL of the variables here so people wont overlook them. Here’s the cliff notes for those “thinkers”- Bench was 335-340 before. It’s 375 now. 11% increase. You’ll come to that same number using your calculator just like I did on mine. Any way you cut it up, those numbers are it. It is obvious, that in no way shape or form is TRT helping more than that. Because more than 375 raw doesn’t exist for me right now. Although it will!

so again, I believe I am literally the most open book case of this I’ve ever heard of that also has publicly logged lifts before and after.

it works. It obviously isn’t some ground breaking magical med, hints the modest 11% in a 7 month stretch of not missing a workout for the first time in my life. (Anybody notice that variable also?? That’s a HUGE one!) also been squatting and deadlifting fairly regularly. And anybody who’s anybody knows that throwing those lifts in the mix (when you weren't doing them at all before!) puts size and strength on FAST! Even for a natty.

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Tommy J.

bear with me, bout to get tongue-in-cheek for a moment. 😁...then I’ll get back to more relevant messages.
 

Another interesting factor that I’ve noticed that’s slightly more baggage related, is people’s reaction to it. It’s like almost 50/50 when the topic comes up. 50% are curious and want to know more, and do ask genuine questions. the other 50% (of which who are far more vocal) already “know” more than I do about it. and they only chose to talk to me about it so they can tell me what they “know”...😆

Yet ironically, they have never even seen any or held any in their hand. Let alone taken it.

Surprisingly, this was an unexpected phenomenon for me.. I never would have imagined so many people were so fixated on an opinion of something so genuinely foreign to them. To the point they will not only get angry at you for calling their foolish logic out, but they will literally wish death on you for it as well. ...I mean they get flat out devastated over this topic! It is fascinating to say the least. And at times makes for some fun, and very revealing chats with people from time to time.

Further, it’s actually quite bizarre the level of expertise some of these self alleged naturals have of it. Especially ones that possess some elite form of strength.. 😳 fishy much? Yeah!.... to anyone reading that falls in that category, assertions are brilliant, huh?.... 💩

 

am I venting here a bit? I sure am! I get little gems of what people “think” here and there all the time. Now they get to hear mine.

 

what irks me about the latter 50% the most, is some of the same professionals on the matter, again, who have never even taken it, also refuse to even talk to me about things as simple as their personal diet choices. Treating it like it’s some no-no topic that they refuse to risk hearing an opinion on from someone who isn’t running the same diet. Almost as if being terrified to be on the receiving end of their own game! Lol! It is utter childishness. I mean tantrum throwing, one way utter childishness.

 

in closing, and to get back off of the boring stuff, here’s where the moral end of things, I feel, DOES come into play. If you take it, don’t compete with unknowing naturals. ....yep!...  That’s it! That is literally the only moral attached to this that need never be broken.

and notice I didn’t say “Don’t compete against naturals” I simply said don’t do it unknowingly* to them. Give them the choice to opt in or out of competing with you. Once you go down this road, it’s understood there will always be an asterisk by your name. If you can’t live with that, don’t go down that road. It is really that simple.

and if you go on, and never break that moral, literally no one can bash you. And you can never be stripped of any achievements that way. The best any hater can do will be the asterisk. Any assertions outside of that will be nothing more than peanut gallery material.

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Tommy J.
1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

the other 50% (of which who are far more vocal) already “know” more than I do about it. and they only chose to talk to me about it so they can tell me what they “know”...

Yet ironically, they have never even seen any or held any in their hand. Let alone taken it.

I put this right on par with a 20 year old virgin trying to go on a monologue about EXACTLY what women want. While at the same time completely ignoring I’m already married with 3 kids. I mean I’m not some Mack daddy “playa” with 500 bodies... but.... you know.. I at least have some tangible experience in the actual topic we are discussing. 🤷🏼‍♂️

it’s like “um.... yeah bro.. I’m sure you’ve watched a porn or two. Maybe I should listen to your wisdom.” 😆

 

and rest assured.. while that may come off a bit extra, when or if you go on, you WILL run into those people. I know others who are on, and we do bounce info off of each other. So far as I can tell, guys on will be one of your only reliable sources of do’s and don'ts. Everything from what to eat, how much to sleep, and how much or how frequently to train to get the most out of it, etc. Also a great source when you ask them “when you did XYZ, what did your bloodwork look like? What did your BP look like?” Etc. and yes! Most on DO monitor those things. It ain’t a bunch of gym bros out here just psychotically shooting stuff in themselves while never being concerned with their health. Do those guys exist? Oh I’m certain they do! But the indicator for you to not listen to them will be easily identified by when you ask them simple stuff about bloodwork, etc. and they don’t have a clue, or they rattle off some number that doesn’t make any sense. That guy is one you should steer clear of. Look at it no different than if a gun owner commits a gun crime.. he doesn’t represent the entire gun community and every gun owner. I’m not into group think. So don’t lump those psychos in with me.


There is also the occasional DR in there who only wants you to be a walking representation of his expertise on the matter. AKA, the doctor that wants you to be the poster child of his TRT clinic’s success. So that guy won’t steer you wrong either.

but a random dr who has never even monitored a patient on it?... pass on taking his advice as well. Because it would be no different than going to a sports medicine doctor, who has never trained grip and seeking his advice on world class grip strength.. I mean yeah he’s a doctor.. a sports medicine doctor no less!.. but what does he actually know about lifting an inch? Or a SB hold with a #4?.. for those things you’ll want to refer to a vetted grip guy. Who may or may not also have some form of medical background/rehab expertise as a bonus. You guys follow?...Okay good.

 

 

i think at this point I’ve pretty much annihilated the possibility of any useless side jargon about it here though. If anyone is itching to make assertions, just calm down... and pay attention to the numbers and time frames. You’ll get the answer you need by simply using your noggin. that said, ask away if there is anything genuine you guys are curious about.

 

btw, this isn’t gonna be just my 7 measly months in here talking. Dad has been on for years, and I can call him any time if I don’t know the answer to something. He will definitely be a better source than me for you guys 50+ years old. Also got more than a few arm wrestling, powerlifting, and bodybuilding buddies of all ages that I can ask questions to if dad or I don’t have the answer. But they didn't sign up for what I’m doing here in this thread. So I will not be giving out any names or contact info. respectfully, don’t ask for it please.

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Tommy J.
40 minutes ago, Aaron Jacobs said:

@Tommy J.  I just want to see you be the first to cert the IM gold nail.  F all the haters!  

Lol! Thanks homie

as cool as that would be, there is a guy out there bending them in single imps like sticks of butter. He’s the real deal. And after talking to Randy, the only reason he hasn’t certed yet is due to his location in a remote part of Russia and not being able to get a ref for corona reasons.

also, it’s been so long since I’ve taken aim at bending... and while I have gotten stronger across the chest and shoulders, I have also lost a bit of flexibility with the size. 8-3/8” would be a nightmare to get into position right now. Lol

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Tommy J.

Sorry to carry on here..

but don’t worry. There is info below that both sides will enjoy.

I wanted to also mention something that is 100% overlooked, and apparently completely not even a thought by non users with such strong opinion about the topic.

 

we are still only human.. if you go on, you WILL have uncontrollable and or forgetful missed injections at times. I’ve done that 10 or 15 times in the last 7 months. Most of those times were only by a few days, With the longest 2 stints being about 10 days on one occasion, and over 3 weeks (22 days to be exact!) on the other occasion where I couldn’t get a prescription refilled! Life happens.. you’ll forget once in a while. Or you won’t be able to get in to the dr for script renewal. Or you will run out of rubbing alcohol. Or your Sharps container will be so full of spent syringes that you can’t even do another injection (because you can’t just throw them in the trash!), Or you won’t be able to find any pharmacy stocking the correct size syringes or needles or both. Or the pharmacy will be “out of stock” on the test completely. yeah.. every one of those has happened to me in this 7 months. Again, All that is also something that wouldn’t, and apparently doesn’t even cross the mind of a non user. Hell, it didn’t even cross mine until it happened! There is GONNA be some undesirable gaps between your doses. Be prepared for that stress.

 

“so what’s the important takeaway on that, Tommy?”

the important takeaway is on those occasions you’ll notice that while you may indeed be stressing over it, know that overall performance takes little to no hit within those time frames I mentioned above. I don’t care what a doctor or scientist says about it being out of the system at “xyz” days!.. because the strength never dropped! Which is a factor that will ultimately make you question how much of the meds should even be getting the credit.

when the 22 day gap happened, the ONLY significant changes I saw were in appetite, sleep, bench speed*, and energy. By saying this, I’m not at all trying to imply the meds do nothing for actual strength. Because they do! There is no doubt about that!
just pointing out that if it did work the way they say, then that strength should theoretically have dropped off fast along with the other changes...But it didn’t! So they are either wrong about how fast they work, or how much they benefit, or for how long they benefit, or all 3. OR... all the scientific evidence on half-lives of the drugs is false. 🤷🏼‍♂️Which could then mean all scientific findings on it are false... oh boy.. confusing rabbit hole, huh?! Which is yet another factor that will make you want slap the haters in the mouth when they recite whatever “medical” info they found online they are trying to cram down you’re throat as gospel about it.

 

btw, test cyp is touted as having a half-life of 8 days. This is what makes it the preferred choice for prescription over Enanthate. Which has only an approximate half-life of 4.5 days. I.E. less injections with the cyp. I went almost 3 times the half-life of cyp (which is what my script is for) on my 22 day stint of not having any due not being able to get in to the dr. So that was far beyond it being 100% out of my system. And zero measurable strength loss happened. So is it really out of my system? even though the test level surely dropped, and the minimal detectable amount (via the half life running out) has definitely left my system?... you decide. Because I sort of don’t care. To me those are non important details. But still, details I feel i should pass none the less.

 

any of the professionals care to explain the bold tho? Because I think I can. And you’re not gonna like the answer.. the answer is it doesn’t work even remotely like, or as much as you “say” it does. Once again, proof in numbers in previous posts.

But!... Pay attention here!... this is still good news to the people I’m beating up right now.. Because this means you now have MY first hand knowledge that can support your argument for calling out possible lairs competing in natural and tested orgs. Specifically ones that are actually on frequently, that hide it, and then just stop taking it days or weeks before the tested meet or competition they will be showing up to cheat in. Leave the “how much it helps them” crap out of the debate. It’s a non point anyways in that case. It doesn’t matter by how much they are cheating you. It just matters weather they are or aren’t. And I’m telling you that it CAN be easily done. So if some guy ever hits you with “I passed a drug test” in response to your accusation, tell them “that drug test doesn’t mean shit anyways if you stopped taking it 10 days or so before the meet.”

btw that bit was learned by accident... I never had ANY intentions to miss any doses! I chose to be on it, and by golly I want as much as I can get out of it! So I suppose the above findings were maybe more of a bittersweet surprise? Or a silver lining if you will? Regardless, there it is.

 

guys give some kind of feedback?.. if this interests you, I’ll continue. If not, I won’t.

and if some of you don’t start posting some benches, I’m going to go drink a pot of coffee and return in turbo troll mode. 😬

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Mike Rinderle

As soon as the shed of tears warms up, I'll be back on the bench and posting.  Although I'm down to 242 and dropping.  Hoping to be around 220-225 by Spring.  So I don't have any illusions of a 375 bench.  

I find the stuff your posting interesting.  

 

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WestSlope

I'm looking forward to a 3mo, 6mo, or whatever you feel like update interval. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

If you are interested in knowing, I am one of the twatwaffles that has zero experience with the therapy. I am truly only interested in your experience. No ulterior motives.

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Tommy J.
7 hours ago, WestSlope said:

I'm looking forward to a 3mo, 6mo, or whatever you feel like update interval. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

If you are interested in knowing, I am one of the twatwaffles that has zero experience with the therapy. I am truly only interested in your experience. No ulterior motives.

Ah that’s a pretty good idea on the periodic updates!

but nossir! You are NOT one of those! IMO you are in the genuine curiosity category. Which, again, is refreshing! And I thank you.

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Tommy J.

Random update on BW. Today I got on the scale at 244! That’s a 7lb loss in BW in under 2 weeks.

couple of factors that may be responsible for that..

1. It’s been a stressful week with the power outages, and now the city water supply cut off here. Been trying to conserve what foot we do have at home since stores are picked thin.

2. Haven’t taken vitamin D3 for about 6-7 days. I normally do that daily. No idea if that’s a contribution to the loss

3. haven’t lifted in about 10 days.

 

no other changes I can think of.

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Tommy J.

4 plates 3 reps Maddog Slingshot tonight.

 


 

Had hope for 4 reps on this tonight. No bueno. felt really wobbly in the slingshot. I guess I need to be benching in it more.

exact weight is 407. Listed as 405 on the video so the simpletons on YouTube don’t attack.

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Tommy J.

Bench pointer some of you may or may not have seen

 

Edited by Tommy J.
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Joe Sullivan
On 2/20/2021 at 2:27 AM, Tommy J. said:

4 plates 3 reps Maddog Slingshot tonight.

 


 

Had hope for 4 reps on this tonight. No bueno. felt really wobbly in the slingshot. I guess I need to be benching in it more.

exact weight is 407. Listed as 405 on the video so the simpletons on YouTube don’t attack.

Looking wicked strong on the bench these days, Tomasina!! 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Mike Rinderle
Just now, Tommy J. said:

Are you guys giving up?..

No sir.  Should be warm enough in the shed soon.

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David_wigren
1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

Are you guys giving up?..

Hell no! I’m going to get a gym membership any year now! XD

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Chez
7 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Are you guys giving up?..

I’m still here. Everyone knows there is no quit in me. I have just taken some time off logging. I’m training bench tonight and starting my ramp up phase to attempt a new PR in a couple weeks 

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Chez

Enter the ramp up phase of this third cycle. Every rep felt clean and strong. Tonight’s workout:

Flat Barbell Bench Press

5 warm ups 

270 lbs - 5x, 5x, 5x, 5x

320 lbs - smooth single 

290 lbs - 3 doubles with slingshot

305 lbs - double with slingshot 

320 lbs - double with slingshot 

335 lbs - single with slingshot

350 lbs - single with slingshot

Barbell Floor Press  - every rep paused 

230 lbs - 3x

260 lbs - 2x

290 lbs - 1x

Incline Barbell Bench Press

225 lbs - 2x

255 lbs - 2x

285 lbs - 2x

235 lbs - 9x

Machine Pec Deck Flys

250 lbs (Stack) - 4 sets of 10x


Took a break from logging. I kept training just needed the break from logging to clear my head with so personal stuff going on. I’m back now. Let’s go!

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
Tommy J.

If I hit 400 raw before someone here hits 375 raw I’ll never let you guys hear the end of it.

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liftyzig

Well my right shoulder finally seems mostly healed but my left rotator cuff decided to (bad word filter) off so I'm still not benching heavy, been over a year and a half.  I did manage to bench 235x5 off 2 boards a few weeks back but I havent benched since.  Grip doesnt hurt so I just stick to that.  Wish I could get healed up and play along

 

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Chez

Still going. Just started my 4th cycle....heaviest yet 

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