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Race to raw 375 T&G bench thread!!!- Race still open!


Tommy J.
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4 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Lol I want to sooo bad bro!...

Unfortunately, while I went on a soap box a few pages back about how the bench calculators have been super accurate for me, I now know it’s off 10+ pounds. In sleeves I’m thinking 385-390 is possible on a good day. Especially if I let my form go to shit and lift my ass off the bench. 😜

I suspect I’ll need to hit 315 for 9-10 before I can bag that 4 hondo trophy tho.

guys please forgive me for continuing to post prs here.. my bench thread is so far behind that it wouldn’t make sense to post there until I update it. And starting more threads in the strength forum every pr could bury this thread if it doesn’t liven back up. I don’t want that to happen. I need to see somebody else get the 375 here before I let the thread die.

You're killing it bud!

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7 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

@EricMilfeld @Chez @Aaron Jacobs

D010F899-B025-433A-B6FB-669BE62476A3.thumb.png.60f4528ea9f97fc3b62cb10005879674.png
 

^^^^your bench waiting on you to get busy. 😬

Haha. Still grinding buddy. Doing well I’m my third cycle. Hopefully I can PR at the end of this cycle 

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Some super strong benching going on in here. Good work guys.

For me I have come to the realization that I'm genetically tapped out and any slight swing in pounds on the bench are directly related to even small swings in bodyweight.  A 2-3lb increase or decrease in bodyweight can mean a few rep difference at this point for me. Maybe if I ran an actual program I could break a plateau though. In 25yrs of training I've never ran one.

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On 2/15/2021 at 10:52 AM, king crusher said:

Some super strong benching going on in here. Good work guys.

For me I have come to the realization that I'm genetically tapped out and any slight swing in pounds on the bench are directly related to even small swings in bodyweight.  A 2-3lb increase or decrease in bodyweight can mean a few rep difference at this point for me. Maybe if I ran an actual program I could break a plateau though. In 25yrs of training I've never ran one.

Yes! My BW has been a huge factor in getting stronger as well. Stepped on the scale a couple days ago at 251. That is the heaviest I’ve ever been. I don’t even recall weighing that in work boots and winter attire before!..

 

now that you mention it, maybe there are a few here better with math than myself? My best bench at about 230lbs was an estimated 335-340 based on a bench calculator (when the calculator was super accurate for me). BW now is 250+ With a 375 bench. Any way to calculate if my bench to BW % has changed with the add in size?

At a glance, it does look like the percentage has increased with the size. I benched about 100lbs over BW back then, and about 125lbs over BW now. Whatever the difference is in percentage would be a fair estimate how much the TRT has helped i think. Incase anyone was curious on that.

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23 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

 Whatever the difference is in percentage would be a fair estimate how much the TRT has helped i think. Incase anyone was curious on that.

Btw, I say “fair” because there is no way to know exactly. I also feel that measuring the percentage of the poundage lifted vs BW compared to then and now is the fairest way to measure because I had not hit any plateaus at the time of going on TRT. I did have some bad days in there every so often before TRT. But I still have those now.🤷🏼‍♂️
 

so comparing my previous estimated 335-340 raw bench pre TRT to my current 375 raw bench post TRT and calling it all the TRT would indeed be a cloudy comparison. Had my BW stayed 230, then most could then “fairly” attribute 100% of the 35lb+ bench gain thus far to TRT. Though I wouldn’t agree with it... because as stated above, I had not hit any noticeable plateaus at the time of going on. but I suppose if I’m being unbiased couldn’t argue it if my BW had stayed the same but the bench went up. But that’s not the case. And btw, the BW gain isn’t exactly glamorous... mostly gut, and my body fat has gone up by at least 5%. So again, any way you cut it up, I think the fairest way to measure it is % in poundage increase on the bench vs BW then and now. (I’m thinking less than 10%. Correct me if I’m wrong)

 

Also, whatever current percentage difference is identified will also change in due time. Because I’m still getting bigger and stronger. And I assume the more size I put on, the greater the % will be between BW and poundage lifted on the bench.

 

this is me attempting to be as open of a book as I can be btw. Without totally disrespecting board rules anyways.

 

note tho that most do acknowledge TRT is not technically the same as full on PEDs. So I suppose I’m not breaking any board rules by talking about a prescription. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

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Also for further clarity, I went on in July of 2020. So whatever percentage increase so far that has happened, happened in 7 months.

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Your progress has been strong.  You have to attribute a percentage of the weight gain to the TRT though (extra muscle and water retention).  So your percentage of help may be a little higher.  Either way, 150% bw raw bench is sick on just trt for 7 months.

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13 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Your progress has been strong.  You have to attribute a percentage of the weight gain to the TRT though (extra muscle and water retention).  So your percentage of help may be a little higher.  Either way, 150% bw raw bench is sick on just trt for 7 months.

Thanks man!

im horrible with math.. what was my bench to bw percentage before TRT?

recap of the BW and bench back then was 230lbs BW, and 335-340 bench

Edited by Tommy J.
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Just figured out how to do the math.

230x1.47 puts me at a 338.1 bench. (That’s close to halfway between 335-340)

so before TRT, my bench was 1.47 times BW.

so yeah.... a whopping .03% increase if we look at it that way.

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....in 7 months. lol!
 

any way you cut it up, it’s about to be an anticlimactic reality to everyone reading that it doesn’t give you what you think it does.

Here’s some numbers

BW is a 9.2% increase

bench is a 11% increase

and that’s if we figure for my max potential size being 230, and my max potential bench being 338. Which isn’t accurate, as I pointed out above I was still getting stronger at the time I went on.

 

still waiting on even half of the 30% rule of thumb to come to life.

 

whats funny is I’ve had numerous people ask recently if I’m on more than I say I am. Lol! How much do they think is required to see an 11% increase on strength?..

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16 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

What were your T levels before and after (seven months ago and most recent test)?

Do you feel stronger, more alert, or smarter during the day?

Sorry if these questions are too personal @Tommy J.

no problem at all. It’s actually refreshing to get real questions once in a while!
 

T levels before, no idea. I went into the dr, told him I wanted to be put on, and told him I wanted the same dose my dad gets. The clinic checked vitals and all that, asked me a few questions, then wrote a script. It felt so shady!.. never even got a blood test then.

however, after talking to others on it, they pretty much reassured thats not uncommon on your first visit. I suppose depending on your age, overall health, etc., they aren’t afraid to just put you on without taking that step. So long as you don’t have any medical reasons that suggest an initial blood test is necessary. I’ve heard though that the younger you are, the less likely that is to happen that way. If some 20 year old walked in there and asked the dr what I did, they’d probably just show them the door. Or they’d move forward with doing a blood test and hold the script depending outcome of the bloodwork results.

 

I got my 6th month bloodwork done not long ago. Test levels are at 829, and my free test levels (whatever that even is?..) were 190 and some change. Dr did not change my dose.

 

I definitely feel more energy, and my appetite has increased. I do feel stronger it seems at almost any movement. Walking, running, getting up off the floor, out of bed, hopping up in the truck, pushing the grocery cart around, etc. speed/reflex seems to be increased also. Also more alert and less groggy feeling throughout the day. But that could be because sleep is better and I’m eating more. I wouldn’t say smarter, but definitely more reserved. My attitude has improved quite a bit. Not nearly as fussy as before.

 

sex drive was initially through the roof first 6 weeks or so before leveling out. Having that side was when I pretty much assumed my test levels were indeed low prior to.


1 annoying side is a few pimples on the back and shoulders every now and then.

 

also take 1000iu’s of D3 a day and also take a prenatal. (Dad suggested the prenatal as the best multivitamin anyone could take).

 

BP was 123/71 last time I checked fwiw

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Oh and at first, the injections hurt like hell in the following days after a shot. Felt like someone threw a baseball at my asscheek. That has since stopped. Basically don’t even feel them anymore.

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Nice job Tommy.  5 degrees in my garage gym so taking a hiatus until it warms up a bit.  I'll get there someday.  Only way forward for me is to keep increasing volume.  

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@WestSlope
Thanks man. I have no qualms about spilling the beans. While I’m no world record case of strength, I still do feel what I’m doing here may be the only ACTUAL, factual, real world in depth tell all that most have come across their entire life.

and again, I appreciate you asking real questions. As opposed to the douche bag ones. Like “how much do you think it helps?” and “how much do you take?” Followed by a “ah cmon man... it’s gotta be more than that.” As if going out of their way to ask a rhetorical question they think they already have the answer to.


Next part is not directed at anyone in particular. Only covering it so it wont be overlooked, and because EVERY variable needs to be taken note of if you plan to do the same.

 

For those actually paying attention to numbers, all that Orwellian double speak of questions I mentioned above can easily be skipped. Because the numbers don’t lie. As much as I know the TRT isn’t solely responsible, others might tend to think different. Regardless of how hard I aim my pointer finger at ALL of the variables here so people wont overlook them. Here’s the cliff notes for those “thinkers”- Bench was 335-340 before. It’s 375 now. 11% increase. You’ll come to that same number using your calculator just like I did on mine. Any way you cut it up, those numbers are it. It is obvious, that in no way shape or form is TRT helping more than that. Because more than 375 raw doesn’t exist for me right now. Although it will!

so again, I believe I am literally the most open book case of this I’ve ever heard of that also has publicly logged lifts before and after.

it works. It obviously isn’t some ground breaking magical med, hints the modest 11% in a 7 month stretch of not missing a workout for the first time in my life. (Anybody notice that variable also?? That’s a HUGE one!) also been squatting and deadlifting fairly regularly. And anybody who’s anybody knows that throwing those lifts in the mix (when you weren't doing them at all before!) puts size and strength on FAST! Even for a natty.

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bear with me, bout to get tongue-in-cheek for a moment. 😁...then I’ll get back to more relevant messages.
 

Another interesting factor that I’ve noticed that’s slightly more baggage related, is people’s reaction to it. It’s like almost 50/50 when the topic comes up. 50% are curious and want to know more, and do ask genuine questions. the other 50% (of which who are far more vocal) already “know” more than I do about it. and they only chose to talk to me about it so they can tell me what they “know”...😆

Yet ironically, they have never even seen any or held any in their hand. Let alone taken it.

Surprisingly, this was an unexpected phenomenon for me.. I never would have imagined so many people were so fixated on an opinion of something so genuinely foreign to them. To the point they will not only get angry at you for calling their foolish logic out, but they will literally wish death on you for it as well. ...I mean they get flat out devastated over this topic! It is fascinating to say the least. And at times makes for some fun, and very revealing chats with people from time to time.

Further, it’s actually quite bizarre the level of expertise some of these self alleged naturals have of it. Especially ones that possess some elite form of strength.. 😳 fishy much? Yeah!.... to anyone reading that falls in that category, assertions are brilliant, huh?.... 💩

 

am I venting here a bit? I sure am! I get little gems of what people “think” here and there all the time. Now they get to hear mine.

 

what irks me about the latter 50% the most, is some of the same professionals on the matter, again, who have never even taken it, also refuse to even talk to me about things as simple as their personal diet choices. Treating it like it’s some no-no topic that they refuse to risk hearing an opinion on from someone who isn’t running the same diet. Almost as if being terrified to be on the receiving end of their own game! Lol! It is utter childishness. I mean tantrum throwing, one way utter childishness.

 

in closing, and to get back off of the boring stuff, here’s where the moral end of things, I feel, DOES come into play. If you take it, don’t compete with unknowing naturals. ....yep!...  That’s it! That is literally the only moral attached to this that need never be broken.

and notice I didn’t say “Don’t compete against naturals” I simply said don’t do it unknowingly* to them. Give them the choice to opt in or out of competing with you. Once you go down this road, it’s understood there will always be an asterisk by your name. If you can’t live with that, don’t go down that road. It is really that simple.

and if you go on, and never break that moral, literally no one can bash you. And you can never be stripped of any achievements that way. The best any hater can do will be the asterisk. Any assertions outside of that will be nothing more than peanut gallery material.

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1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

the other 50% (of which who are far more vocal) already “know” more than I do about it. and they only chose to talk to me about it so they can tell me what they “know”...

Yet ironically, they have never even seen any or held any in their hand. Let alone taken it.

I put this right on par with a 20 year old virgin trying to go on a monologue about EXACTLY what women want. While at the same time completely ignoring I’m already married with 3 kids. I mean I’m not some Mack daddy “playa” with 500 bodies... but.... you know.. I at least have some tangible experience in the actual topic we are discussing. 🤷🏼‍♂️

it’s like “um.... yeah bro.. I’m sure you’ve watched a porn or two. Maybe I should listen to your wisdom.” 😆

 

and rest assured.. while that may come off a bit extra, when or if you go on, you WILL run into those people. I know others who are on, and we do bounce info off of each other. So far as I can tell, guys on will be one of your only reliable sources of do’s and don'ts. Everything from what to eat, how much to sleep, and how much or how frequently to train to get the most out of it, etc. Also a great source when you ask them “when you did XYZ, what did your bloodwork look like? What did your BP look like?” Etc. and yes! Most on DO monitor those things. It ain’t a bunch of gym bros out here just psychotically shooting stuff in themselves while never being concerned with their health. Do those guys exist? Oh I’m certain they do! But the indicator for you to not listen to them will be easily identified by when you ask them simple stuff about bloodwork, etc. and they don’t have a clue, or they rattle off some number that doesn’t make any sense. That guy is one you should steer clear of. Look at it no different than if a gun owner commits a gun crime.. he doesn’t represent the entire gun community and every gun owner. I’m not into group think. So don’t lump those psychos in with me.


There is also the occasional DR in there who only wants you to be a walking representation of his expertise on the matter. AKA, the doctor that wants you to be the poster child of his TRT clinic’s success. So that guy won’t steer you wrong either.

but a random dr who has never even monitored a patient on it?... pass on taking his advice as well. Because it would be no different than going to a sports medicine doctor, who has never trained grip and seeking his advice on world class grip strength.. I mean yeah he’s a doctor.. a sports medicine doctor no less!.. but what does he actually know about lifting an inch? Or a SB hold with a #4?.. for those things you’ll want to refer to a vetted grip guy. Who may or may not also have some form of medical background/rehab expertise as a bonus. You guys follow?...Okay good.

 

 

i think at this point I’ve pretty much annihilated the possibility of any useless side jargon about it here though. If anyone is itching to make assertions, just calm down... and pay attention to the numbers and time frames. You’ll get the answer you need by simply using your noggin. that said, ask away if there is anything genuine you guys are curious about.

 

btw, this isn’t gonna be just my 7 measly months in here talking. Dad has been on for years, and I can call him any time if I don’t know the answer to something. He will definitely be a better source than me for you guys 50+ years old. Also got more than a few arm wrestling, powerlifting, and bodybuilding buddies of all ages that I can ask questions to if dad or I don’t have the answer. But they didn't sign up for what I’m doing here in this thread. So I will not be giving out any names or contact info. respectfully, don’t ask for it please.

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40 minutes ago, Aaron Jacobs said:

@Tommy J.  I just want to see you be the first to cert the IM gold nail.  F all the haters!  

Lol! Thanks homie

as cool as that would be, there is a guy out there bending them in single imps like sticks of butter. He’s the real deal. And after talking to Randy, the only reason he hasn’t certed yet is due to his location in a remote part of Russia and not being able to get a ref for corona reasons.

also, it’s been so long since I’ve taken aim at bending... and while I have gotten stronger across the chest and shoulders, I have also lost a bit of flexibility with the size. 8-3/8” would be a nightmare to get into position right now. Lol

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Sorry to carry on here..

but don’t worry. There is info below that both sides will enjoy.

I wanted to also mention something that is 100% overlooked, and apparently completely not even a thought by non users with such strong opinion about the topic.

 

we are still only human.. if you go on, you WILL have uncontrollable and or forgetful missed injections at times. I’ve done that 10 or 15 times in the last 7 months. Most of those times were only by a few days, With the longest 2 stints being about 10 days on one occasion, and over 3 weeks (22 days to be exact!) on the other occasion where I couldn’t get a prescription refilled! Life happens.. you’ll forget once in a while. Or you won’t be able to get in to the dr for script renewal. Or you will run out of rubbing alcohol. Or your Sharps container will be so full of spent syringes that you can’t even do another injection (because you can’t just throw them in the trash!), Or you won’t be able to find any pharmacy stocking the correct size syringes or needles or both. Or the pharmacy will be “out of stock” on the test completely. yeah.. every one of those has happened to me in this 7 months. Again, All that is also something that wouldn’t, and apparently doesn’t even cross the mind of a non user. Hell, it didn’t even cross mine until it happened! There is GONNA be some undesirable gaps between your doses. Be prepared for that stress.

 

“so what’s the important takeaway on that, Tommy?”

the important takeaway is on those occasions you’ll notice that while you may indeed be stressing over it, know that overall performance takes little to no hit within those time frames I mentioned above. I don’t care what a doctor or scientist says about it being out of the system at “xyz” days!.. because the strength never dropped! Which is a factor that will ultimately make you question how much of the meds should even be getting the credit.

when the 22 day gap happened, the ONLY significant changes I saw were in appetite, sleep, bench speed*, and energy. By saying this, I’m not at all trying to imply the meds do nothing for actual strength. Because they do! There is no doubt about that!
just pointing out that if it did work the way they say, then that strength should theoretically have dropped off fast along with the other changes...But it didn’t! So they are either wrong about how fast they work, or how much they benefit, or for how long they benefit, or all 3. OR... all the scientific evidence on half-lives of the drugs is false. 🤷🏼‍♂️Which could then mean all scientific findings on it are false... oh boy.. confusing rabbit hole, huh?! Which is yet another factor that will make you want slap the haters in the mouth when they recite whatever “medical” info they found online they are trying to cram down you’re throat as gospel about it.

 

btw, test cyp is touted as having a half-life of 8 days. This is what makes it the preferred choice for prescription over Enanthate. Which has only an approximate half-life of 4.5 days. I.E. less injections with the cyp. I went almost 3 times the half-life of cyp (which is what my script is for) on my 22 day stint of not having any due not being able to get in to the dr. So that was far beyond it being 100% out of my system. And zero measurable strength loss happened. So is it really out of my system? even though the test level surely dropped, and the minimal detectable amount (via the half life running out) has definitely left my system?... you decide. Because I sort of don’t care. To me those are non important details. But still, details I feel i should pass none the less.

 

any of the professionals care to explain the bold tho? Because I think I can. And you’re not gonna like the answer.. the answer is it doesn’t work even remotely like, or as much as you “say” it does. Once again, proof in numbers in previous posts.

But!... Pay attention here!... this is still good news to the people I’m beating up right now.. Because this means you now have MY first hand knowledge that can support your argument for calling out possible lairs competing in natural and tested orgs. Specifically ones that are actually on frequently, that hide it, and then just stop taking it days or weeks before the tested meet or competition they will be showing up to cheat in. Leave the “how much it helps them” crap out of the debate. It’s a non point anyways in that case. It doesn’t matter by how much they are cheating you. It just matters weather they are or aren’t. And I’m telling you that it CAN be easily done. So if some guy ever hits you with “I passed a drug test” in response to your accusation, tell them “that drug test doesn’t mean shit anyways if you stopped taking it 10 days or so before the meet.”

btw that bit was learned by accident... I never had ANY intentions to miss any doses! I chose to be on it, and by golly I want as much as I can get out of it! So I suppose the above findings were maybe more of a bittersweet surprise? Or a silver lining if you will? Regardless, there it is.

 

guys give some kind of feedback?.. if this interests you, I’ll continue. If not, I won’t.

and if some of you don’t start posting some benches, I’m going to go drink a pot of coffee and return in turbo troll mode. 😬

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As soon as the shed of tears warms up, I'll be back on the bench and posting.  Although I'm down to 242 and dropping.  Hoping to be around 220-225 by Spring.  So I don't have any illusions of a 375 bench.  

I find the stuff your posting interesting.  

 

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7 hours ago, WestSlope said:

I'm looking forward to a 3mo, 6mo, or whatever you feel like update interval. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

If you are interested in knowing, I am one of the twatwaffles that has zero experience with the therapy. I am truly only interested in your experience. No ulterior motives.

Ah that’s a pretty good idea on the periodic updates!

but nossir! You are NOT one of those! IMO you are in the genuine curiosity category. Which, again, is refreshing! And I thank you.

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Random update on BW. Today I got on the scale at 244! That’s a 7lb loss in BW in under 2 weeks.

couple of factors that may be responsible for that..

1. It’s been a stressful week with the power outages, and now the city water supply cut off here. Been trying to conserve what foot we do have at home since stores are picked thin.

2. Haven’t taken vitamin D3 for about 6-7 days. I normally do that daily. No idea if that’s a contribution to the loss

3. haven’t lifted in about 10 days.

 

no other changes I can think of.

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4 plates 3 reps Maddog Slingshot tonight.

 


 

Had hope for 4 reps on this tonight. No bueno. felt really wobbly in the slingshot. I guess I need to be benching in it more.

exact weight is 407. Listed as 405 on the video so the simpletons on YouTube don’t attack.

Edited by Tommy J.
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