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Stephen Anderson

DOH Axle Dead Sumo or Conventional? Why?

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Stephen Anderson

Someone please explain in their opinion which is better and why

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devinhoo

I would LOVE to know why. I usually pull conventional for regular deadlifts, but I see a lot of folks pull sumo on an axle. Maybe it's because of the decreased ROM so you have less time to hold on to the bar?

I found that for Saxon bar I had a better time with narrow grip and sumo because that's more similar to the napalm's nightmare that I train with (because I don't have a Saxon bar of my own). Not sure that applies to others though.

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Climber028

Sumo allows a narrower grip. Narrower grip means you can get a little more ulnar deviation which let's the pinky engage more. If you try to get this narrow conventional your arms usually hit your torso during lockout and you wouldn't be able to complete the lift. 

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Stephen Anderson
15 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

Sumo allows a narrower grip. Narrower grip means you can get a little more ulnar deviation which let's the pinky engage more. If you try to get this narrow conventional your arms usually hit your torso during lockout and you wouldn't be able to complete the lift. 

Thanks for the response!

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Stephen Anderson
1 hour ago, devinhoo said:

I would LOVE to know why. I usually pull conventional for regular deadlifts, but I see a lot of folks pull sumo on an axle. Maybe it's because of the decreased ROM so you have less time to hold on to the bar?

I found that for Saxon bar I had a better time with narrow grip and sumo because that's more similar to the napalm's nightmare that I train with (because I don't have a Saxon bar of my own). Not sure that applies to others though.

Thanks for the response!

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AdamTGlass

The World record holders in axle often conventional pullers but makes me wonder if they would get more sumo??? 

Just a personal belief- side by side the same weight lifted convention more impressive than sumo. For competitions sumo offers for many of us advantages in grip. The more internal rotation plus elbow flexion you have in a two hand grip lift the better - see Alexey lift. 

 

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Stephen Anderson
18 minutes ago, AdamTGlass said:

The World record holders in axle often conventional pullers but makes me wonder if they would get more sumo??? 

Just a personal belief- side by side the same weight lifted convention more impressive than sumo. For competitions sumo offers for many of us advantages in grip. The more internal rotation plus elbow flexion you have in a two hand grip lift the better - see Alexey lift. 

 

As always thank you for you input!!  🙏 

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king crusher

I've used both and with conventional it feels like when the bar locks out it pushes your hands off the bar a bit, that doesn't seem to happen with sumo. And I'm 100% a conventional deadlifter with a regular bar.

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Squeezus

Sumo because I had back surgery last year and it doesn't put as much pressure on my low back. Also, shorter ROM.

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Chez

Sumo even though I pull conventional normally. Shorter range of motion and with sumo your hands come down straight on the bar allowing for a better grip and your knees aren’t pushing against your arms.

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Fist of Fury

For thick bar sumo is definitely better. Way easier to grip with a narrow grip and you don't have to lift as high either.

I never do sumo for regular DL's tho. Sumo is not cool in my opinion but it's okay for grip sport since we're not testing full body strength.

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SarahChappelow
16 hours ago, Climber028 said:

Sumo allows a narrower grip. Narrower grip means you can get a little more ulnar deviation which let's the pinky engage more. 

Well how 'bout that. I've only tried conventional for DOH axle, but this makes me want to give sumo a whirl. 

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Vinnie

For me it has to be sumo.  I am short and also have a short torso even proportional to my height, and on top of that, my grip is relatively stronger than my full body strength -- so much so that my max DOH axle is the same as my max deadlift with any grip on a regular olympic bar.  Conventional feels very awkward as I cannot bend far enough over the weight, so my arms are not really much in front of my legs, and the bar hits my knees on the way up if I can get it off the ground at all.  Sumo feels much better mechanically (and I know I still could use some work on the mechanics of even that).

Edited by Vinnie
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Andrew Dube
19 hours ago, Climber028 said:

Sumo allows a narrower grip. Narrower grip means you can get a little more ulnar deviation which let's the pinky engage more. If you try to get this narrow conventional your arms usually hit your torso during lockout and you wouldn't be able to complete the lift. 

This is the correct answer in my anecdotal experience. Even on a regular diameter barbell I can hold much more DO sumo over conventional. Just move your hands further and further out and see how much you lose the engagement of the pinky and ring fingers. This is why snatch grip axle is so hard and why weightlifters almost exclusively utilize a hook grip on snatches. I notice some people who pull axle conventional still take a narrower than normal grip creating a weird semi sumo lift that I assume forces the weight further out in front of them increasing the demands of the back/ posterior chain. 

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Climber028
18 minutes ago, Andrew Dube said:

This is the correct answer in my anecdotal experience. Even on a regular diameter barbell I can hold much more DO sumo over conventional. Just move your hands further and further out and see how much you lose the engagement of the pinky and ring fingers. This is why snatch grip axle is so hard and why weightlifters almost exclusively utilize a hook grip on snatches. I notice some people who pull axle conventional still take a narrower than normal grip creating a weird semi sumo lift that I assume forces the weight further out in front of them increasing the demands of the back/ posterior chain. 

That's actually what I do, a weird half straddle semi sumo. My normal deadlift is high enough that my back isn't working hard on the axle so I can sacrifice power and still be fine. I just get wide enough to make clearance for my arms. 

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Andrew Dube

As a side note @Vinnie with your proportions you are probably better suited for conventional. That being said on the axle you should probably still pull sumo or semi sumo for the reason already discussed. If you wanted to make the investment in learning either style of deadlift it wouldn't take long to surpass what your hands can hold on an axle. I'd recommend starting with the bar elevated and working down to the floor over time as you learn to brace and hinge. But it is a process and may not match your goals. 

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Boulderbrew
21 hours ago, AdamTGlass said:

The World record holders in axle often conventional pullers but makes me wonder if they would get more sumo??? 

Totally agree. For a lot of guys I think they get so caught up with sumo not being "cool" that they forget this is a grip strength sport. Grab the thing lift the thing. This sport is a bit eccentric and nerdy (and I love it so much for that). We contest the stub for god's sake.

I'll reiterate what others have said. For thick bar sumo is superior. I feel more on top of the bar, I can keep my arms slightly bent (more engaged leads to a stronger grip for me, watch how Carl pulls) and lock the pinkies in better. I am still a bit new to axle training, but this is what I have noticed.  

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AdamTGlass
2 hours ago, Boulderbrew said:

Totally agree. For a lot of guys I think they get so caught up with sumo not being "cool" that they forget this is a grip strength sport. Grab the thing lift the thing. This sport is a bit eccentric and nerdy (and I love it so much for that). We contest the stub for god's sake.

I'll reiterate what others have said. For thick bar sumo is superior. I feel more on top of the bar, I can keep my arms slightly bent (more engaged leads to a stronger grip for me, watch how Carl pulls) and lock the pinkies in better. I am still a bit new to axle training, but this is what I have noticed.  

Tanner we didn’t choose the stub life, the stub life chooses us

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Stephen Anderson
3 hours ago, Boulderbrew said:

Totally agree. For a lot of guys I think they get so caught up with sumo not being "cool" that they forget this is a grip strength sport. Grab the thing lift the thing. This sport is a bit eccentric and nerdy (and I love it so much for that). We contest the stub for god's sake.

I'll reiterate what others have said. For thick bar sumo is superior. I feel more on top of the bar, I can keep my arms slightly bent (more engaged leads to a stronger grip for me, watch how Carl pulls) and lock the pinkies in better. I am still a bit new to axle training, but this is what I have noticed.  

Thanks for the input!! Hopefully we can get some good numbers next weekend!!

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