MMS versus CCS versus TNS

[devinhoo]

How much of a strength drop is there from MMS to CCS, and from CCS to TNS? I was trying to dig through the GripSportInternational/NAGS records to determine out how strong people are at the different types of sets, because I know folks tend to favor one or the other. I know some folks can TNS a CoC3, but not everyone can. Hard to figure out how much of a strength gap there is because to be accurate the same person would have had to go to three different comps around the same time with different gripper sets. Fat chance.

 

Best I could figure out it looks like pretty strong folks are going form about 180-190 MMS to 150-160 CCS and then down to around 120-130 TNS.

 

Anyone back me up?

Edited January 24, 2020 by devinhoo

[wobbler]

On the lower end, my best TNS is 105, MMS 126, CCS somewhere in between but like 1/3 of the way up from TNS if I had to guess. 109 or 111 maybe, never did much CCS.

Might as well ask for choked closes while you're at it, 143 from parallel but I couldn't do that now.

[Guest]

My best TNS is 163. I have no idea for any other set because I won’t do them. I have no desire to. What I don’t understand is how someone can MMS 190 or so and only do 120-130 TNS. It boggles my mind. That’s a huge difference.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Guest

[Stephen Anderson]

My tns and ccs are pretty close! 

[devinhoo]

32 minutes ago, wobbler said:

On the lower end, my best TNS is 105, MMS 126, CCS somewhere in between but like 1/3 of the way up from TNS if I had to guess. 109 or 111 maybe, never did much CCS.

Might as well ask for choked closes while you're at it, 143 from parallel but I couldn't do that now.

That's part of the problem. People tend to like one set or the other, but not all three. 

25 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

My best TNS is 163. I have no idea for any other set because I won’t do them. I have no desire to. What I don’t understand is how someone can MMS 190 or so and only do 120-130 TNS. It boggles my mind. That’s a huge difference.

I hear you. Those weren't the same people. I was just going over the leaderboard, so I only know what folks have done in a comp. Pretty small data set and I was just looking at the top people in a few different weight classes.

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by devinhoo

[AdamTGlass]

1 hour ago, devinhoo said:

Best I could figure out it looks like pretty strong folks are going form about 180-190 MMS to 150-160 CCS and then down to around 120-130 TNS.

 

Anyone back me up?

I’ll back you up. 

My big run with grippers was in 2012. In that year I 20mm block set a 185 at US Nationals, I parallel set (mms) 191, i CSS 162, and TNS 151. I did my mash monster 4 and if I was a smarter guy I would have asked for MM5. 

There are some unusual people who may have a closer spread than you suggest, but for the most part it’s pretty good guess. I’m betting untrained people can only tns about half of their parallel set (assuming they could even set it) and trained people drop 30-40% off 

Only my opinion: for the record I don’t think training one particular style of close is better than any other one. It truly matters why you are even doing it to call anything good or better. I also don’t think it’s particularly useful outside of the sport of closing big grippers when you get past the 125-135 lb range. The possibility of injury is curved way higher than transfer benefits. If you only train CCS your tns will still be garbage. If you only train tns your mms will be garbage. 

Train one, train all, or train none. It’s the best ego lift in fitness and the least useful investment in time unless you really love closing grippers 

[Fist of Fury]

I only focus on MMS, occasionally 30-40 mm block set if I feel that I have to change things up in order to progress.

For me it's something like: CCS 25 lbs less, TNS 35 lbs less. 1.5" block set 5-10 lbs less depending on how much I have trained it.

For chokers (to parallel) I would say: Plus 20, but I only train it occasionally and have not specialized in that yet. I think there's plenty of room for improvement in that exersize.

Difference between MMS and 20 mm block is usually only a few pounds.

[king crusher]

I don't think I could TNS my 3 if I tried today but I was tns my 3 which is unrated but still stout I'd guess 150 at least and could ccs my rated 156 3. I was closing my 166 elite from a bit wider than parallel and getting my 173 mm3 replica down to about 1/8" all the same time frame.

[Hubgeezer]

13 hours ago, AdamTGlass said:

 

There are some unusual people who may have a closer spread than you suggest, but 

Hey! Stop talking about me man

[camz]

My TNS, CCS and wide set are not far apart, maybe another 4 or 6 weeks of training.

My MMS is worse than my TNS.

[Hubgeezer]

22 hours ago, AdamTGlass said:

 

There are some unusual people who may have a closer spread

MMS. Never done one in my life

TNS. Been a dozen years, probably was 130 lbs. Never practiced it, hated it.

HGS. (Hubgeezer Set, 1 5/8ths inch spread) 159 lbs

CCS. 151 lbs

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Hubgeezer said:

MMS. Never done one in my life

I’m probably being too blunt, but this was probably your biggest gripper training mistake. If you trained it, you would have certified on the coc #3 years ago 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Chez

[AdamTGlass]

26 minutes ago, Chez said:

I’m probably being too blunt, but this was probably your biggest gripper training mistake. If you trained it, you would have certified on the coc #3 years ago 

Most respectfully Mike I second Chez on that - it seems to be much faster to “own” the parallel range and work wider from there 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, AdamTGlass said:

Most respectfully Mike I second Chez on that - it seems to be much faster to “own” the parallel range and work wider from there 

Exactly. This the best way, and it works for the vast majority of us. Increasing mms strength trickles down to increased ccs strength. Those who stubbornly fight it, struggle 

[Hubgeezer]

5 minutes ago, AdamTGlass said:

Most respectfully Mike I second Chez on that - it seems to be much faster to “own” the parallel range and work wider from there 

I would probably agree with both of you on this if there were not HUGE MMS closers who cannot CCS a 3.

Then again, Nathan Holle may have used that method and he ain’t no slouch...

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

I would probably agree with both of you on this if there were not HUGE MMS closers who cannot CCS a 3.

Then again, Nathan Holle may have used that method and he ain’t no slouch...

There aren’t mike. When it comes time the smart ones just practice the technique and it’s easy. Once you get over 170 mms, 150 ccs is easy once you practice unless you have small hands 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

I would probably agree with both of you on this if there were not HUGE MMS closers who cannot CCS a 3.

Then again, Nathan Holle may have used that method and he ain’t no slouch...

I’m only saying this cause I legit care and have watched you post over the years. Your own stubbornness, has been your biggest obstacle 

[Hubgeezer]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

There aren’t mike. 

I can name two, but I won’t. People’s feelings get too easily hurt on this forum.

I am stubborn, I will give you that.

 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

I can name two, but I won’t. People’s feelings get too easily hurt on this forum.

I am stubborn, I will give you that.

 

Ill go this far, if you are even close to certing, I’ll get you there if you listen to me. I guarantee it. I have helped several improve on grippers and I do it cause I love it, I don’t don’t charge anything 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Chez

[AdamTGlass]

37 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

 

I am stubborn, I will give you that.

 

Stubborn- A delightful servant but terrible master. You get to decide how it’s applied. From one stubborn man to another

[Tommy J.]

7 hours ago, Chez said:

There aren’t mike. When it comes time the smart ones just practice the technique and it’s easy. Once you get over 170 mms, 150 ccs is easy once you practice unless you have small hands 

I remember a couple years ago pointing this out on the forum. And got so much hate over it it was amazing. If memory serves, I called it the 20# rule of thumb. You were the only one posting at the time who agreed. Everyone else (pretty much only non #3 cert folks) insisted there was no 20# rule, and instead focused on an area of debate that no big gripper closer had ever even bothered focusing on. Which was “you need a big thumb pad to close big grippers”. And blamed the reason they had not certed the #3 on having a thin thumb pad.

i am curious to see if anyone will come at you with the same non-point about the thumb pad now. If not, then it will prove that a handful were just eagerly needing to disagree with me for whatever reason.

 

for the record, Mike was not one of those people.

 

also Mike, I think you can still do the #3 cert. and I still think you should go for it! Let Chez help you get it done.

[Tommy J.]

9 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

To be fair, most people agreed on the 20# rule of thumb in that thread. Perhaps there is others. 

Myself, I dont know. It's different for everyone. When my best mms close was 166#, I still had trouble with Ccs set on a GHP 6 at 130#.

Now, when I focus on Ccs instead, it's going way better for me as the 3 cert is the goal. 

Ah, word! If I remember correct, you’re hands aren’t very big?.. if so, CCS will take a tad more practice, but you will get the #3!

 

i think in that other thread I also put a disclaimer on hand size for the #3 ccs. So I’ll say it again, and this is only a rough estimate... I would say CCS or even TNS is only ideal for hands between about 7-1/2” and 8-1/2” length. Maybe even 8-1/4” on the big side... anything outside of that hand size, in either direction, might struggle hard to get good at those sets. 

I base that off a vid I saw of Mark Felix trying the #3.. it was terrible because his hands are so huge! 

granted, this is ONLY a rough estimate on my part.. I would say that as long as you’re hands aren’t UNDER 7”, or OVER 9”, then you can do CCS and TNS with diligent practice. Just have to believe it brother!

you'll get it!

Edited January 26, 2020 by Tommy J.

[king crusher]

Guess my 8" hands are tns machines haha. Although I have thin hands and a thin thumb pad and I could have easily certed the 3 but honestly didnt care to. 

Any cert where the rules change drastically is a joke and I personally have no interest in it bit thats a whole different conversation haha

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Guess my 8" hands are tns machines haha. Although I have thin hands and a thin thumb pad and I could have easily certed the 3 but honestly didnt care to. 

Any cert where the rules change drastically is a joke and I personally have no interest in it bit thats a whole different conversation haha

I agree with this statement on rules changing all the time. That goes for anything. Whether It be for a  changing rules for a cert  or mid comp or whatever else rules are changed for. It’s hard to have legitimacy as a sport, as I am unaware of other sports changing rules to suit the needs of a few. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

If rules aren’t stuck to or at least a difference in the category for the cert with people listed under the conditions they certed for because when you change the set you totally change the feat, how can it be legitimate if one set of rules for one group was harder for another group that certs? I know everything these days is about “feel good” but come on!  I could care less about gripper certs as well, for that reason. I’m sure a few others feel the same. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Guest
Adding

[Tommy J.]

21 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Guess my 8" hands are tns machines haha. Although I have thin hands and a thin thumb pad and I could have easily certed the 3 but honestly didnt care to. 

Any cert where the rules change drastically is a joke and I personally have no interest in it bit thats a whole different conversation haha

I think you should still brother. For no other reason than this:

i watched an interesting YouTube video not long ago. The video was titled something along the lines of “life regrets” or something similar. In that video, was comprised of various different people from various walks of life of various ages. And a trend I noticed with the younger ones was stuff they regretted doing or saying. And ALL of the older folks ONLY regretted something they DIDN'T do earlier in life. It was super interesting, imo.

 

that said, I took a lesson from the older and wiser folks after watching the video. I don’t want to have regrets of stuff I maybe thought about doing in my life and didn’t do, that later turned into actual regrets for not doing.