Advanced Geezer Category for Large Contests?

[Hubgeezer]

Been a little bit of “age” discussion on the Board lately. At some point, not sure when, as the participants age, seems like adding an Age Category for 60 and over becomes appropriate.

For example, if there were 10 entrants in King Kong 60 and over, I think that would warrant another category. I think it would be downright silly to do that at this point, as 50 and Over covers things except for a few outliers. 
 

Right now, the Over 50 category is rapidly expanding, and there is a lot of talent of guys 50-55. Don’t mean to prematurely age them, but I don’t see these guys stepping down soon.

[Eric Roussin]

I agree that at some point a 60+ category may be warranted, particularly in multi-venue international contests.

Not sure if you’re aware, but contest results are tracked in the GSI database by age category, including 50-59, 60-69, 70-79, and even 80+. But results can only be entered in this manner when the competitors’ ages are known. So contest promoters out there, I encourage you to record ages, especially when you think a competitor may be over 50 years old.

[Mike Rinderle]

We're going to have more categories and classes than athletes that come to contests soon.  

[climber511]

My 70+ records are not shown as such  in the database.  It's no big deal because I think I'm the only over 70 Grip has had in contests so far.   Personally I would not want a separate class for competitions but it would be nice if my results were included on the list for future Geezers in their 70s to go for.

[Eric Roussin]

3 hours ago, WestSlope said:

I would like to see this addressed. If the records of the 60 and 70 y.o. people can't be entered separately, maybe you should consider listing them in a thread on the GB. Not that GB is certain to exist for posterity as far as I know.

I can confirm that the results can be tagged by age category in the database, however I don’t think the results by age can currently be displayed. I’m sure the functionality can be built.

[Hubgeezer]

I was never a fan of hand size categories (done in a few “GGC” contests a dozen plus years ago),  nor the push for weight classes. Never imagined that “age categories” would become popular. But the weight classes, no question, attracted more contestants than were participating earlier. Probably the best decision made to “grow the sport” as to attracting entrants.

But this year’s King Kong had 13 different categories, and 4 of them had 10 or less entrants. I suspect an Advanced Geezer category would exceed the numbers of some of those. Until it gets to 10,12,15, I would not support it regardless if there are other categories with fewer contestants. It may be people will stop competing when they get to that age. We don’t know yet. 

There is a fellow in my community that I have been lobbying to get into our local Sports Hall of Fame, who has been a competitor in Judo for 60 plus years. I think he is the biggest 90 something year old badass in the world. He owned a hardcore serious lifting gym in the 1950s and 1960s, was a competitive bodybuilder in the 1950s, and still teaches martial arts. Don’t see how it is possible for someone that age to still have muscle mass and not much fat in his 90s, about Chris Rice’s height and weighing 275 lbs.He had to retire because he outlived all of his competition!  I am hoping he gets voted in this year, and I will find out this month. Why am I talking about him on the Gripboard? I suspect he is the reason I started this thread.

And, watching Thor’s Dad lift the Inch earlier this morning making me think about “Age” issues probably had something to do with it as well... 

[Eric Roussin]

33 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

What would it take to build that functionality? Does GSI have a person to alter the database or is it you, Eric?

To be clear, I'm not pushing for more classes. I'm interested in having the  lift history archived of a few guys who didn't give up the fight. It's just a handful I know, but Rice's 2 hand pinch lift at 70 y.o., for instance, shouldn't be lost.

Aaron Corcorran developed and manages the database. I just handle data entry. I’ve already been in touch with him to ask what’s possible. In the meantime, I can confirm that the results I’ve entered are tagged to the appropriate age category (when available). This way, if and when the functionality becomes available, the data will be there.

[EricMilfeld]

23 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

I was never a fan of hand size categories (done in a few “GGC” contests a dozen plus years ago),  nor the push for weight classes. Never imagined that “age categories” would become popular. But the weight classes, no question, attracted more contestants than were participating earlier. Probably the best decision made to “grow the sport” as to attracting entrants.

But this year’s King Kong had 13 different categories, and 4 of them had 10 or less entrants. I suspect an Advanced Geezer category would exceed the numbers of some of those. Until it gets to 10,12,15, I would not support it regardless if there are other categories with fewer contestants. It may be people will stop competing when they get to that age. We don’t know yet. 

There is a fellow in my community that I have been lobbying to get into our local Sports Hall of Fame, who has been a competitor in Judo for 60 plus years. I think he is the biggest 90 something year old badass in the world. He owned a hardcore serious lifting gym in the 1950s and 1960s, was a competitive bodybuilder in the 1950s, and still teaches martial arts. Don’t see how it is possible for someone that age to still have muscle mass and not much fat in his 90s, about Chris Rice’s height and weighing 275 lbs.He had to retire because he outlived all of his competition!  I am hoping he gets voted in this year, and I will find out this month. Why am I talking about him on the Gripboard? I suspect he is the reason I started this thread.

And, watching Thor’s Dad lift the Inch earlier this morning making me think about “Age” issues probably had something to do with it as well... 

He’s in his 90s and weighs 275?!

[Mike Rinderle]

9 minutes ago, EricMilfeld said:

He’s in his 90s and weighs 275?!

Literally the strongest heart in the world.  

[Mike Rinderle]

In addition to adding more classes, we should probably get a couple more grip federations going.  The ones we have now aren't nearly enough to handle the huge number of people that we have competing worldwide.  I mean, we're around 400 - 500 contest participants world wide every year.  If we just add 3 or 4 more organizations to the mix, each with their 20 or so divisions, we can really get this thing split up enough so everyone can win every time they compete.   

 

Just a 52 yo nitwit that's never won the overall at a contest and never will (although he's shockingly got a few 1st place awards from major comps).  To show how ridiculous this is, I got two first place medals at 2018 NAGS. 1 for masters and one for 120kg champ.  I think I was 7th overall and 3 or 4 guys in lower weight classes beat me that day.  C'mon!  I should have left there with... the knowledge I finished 7th in a strong field and absolutely nothing more. 

 

If we want to track records in all these different categories, I think that's ok.  If it builds someone up to know they have a record in X category (even though 30 other people have lifted more) I'm all for making people feel good.  But at some point it starts getting silly when the average comp draws less people than the number of categories we have created.

[climber511]

Just my two cents.  I'm 71 and will be 72 in August and I do think I will compete again at some point.  

I want to compete against those in my weight class - I think that's only fair - all those in my weight class.  I think it's cool to compete against the youngsters.  I'd get more out of finishing 20th against everyone everywhere in the 93K class than first in a 70 to 79 year old 93K class where I'm the only one.

But I also think there should be a separate records list somewhere for Masters Competitors to try and encourage more older strength athletes to try the sport - or at the least show Masters  status for lifts on our Top 100 list.  I realize this is a giant pain in the ass for Aaron who already does so much - maybe I'm just being selfish want to see my name on a list.  But one of my grandsons friends was telling be how he was bragging on "my grandpa is stronger than you are" - made me feel good.  Anyway?

 

[lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, climber511 said:

Just my two cents.  I'm 71 and will be 72 in August and I do think I will compete again at some point.  

I want to compete against those in my weight class - I think that's only fair - all those in my weight class.  I think it's cool to compete against the youngsters.  I'd get more out of finishing 20th against everyone everywhere in the 93K class than first in a 70 to 79 year old 93K class where I'm the only one.

But I also think there should be a separate records list somewhere for Masters Competitors to try and encourage more older strength athletes to try the sport - or at the least show Masters  status for lifts on our Top 100 list.  I realize this is a giant pain in the ass for Aaron who already does so much - maybe I'm just being selfish want to see my name on a list.  But one of my grandsons friends was telling be how he was bragging on "my grandpa is stronger than you are" - made me feel good.  Anyway?

 

I agree with  you on this Chris speaking as a young punk of 62 yrs 

[Hubgeezer]

6 hours ago, EricMilfeld said:

He’s in his 90s and weighs 275?!

I sent you a PM that had a short video of him, interviewed at Age 82, where he said he weighed 275. I didn't put it on the Gripboard, as I am afraid he might beat me up

I will find out in a week if he gets into the local Sports Hall of Fame this year.  He attended one in 2017 because Ernie Reyes, Sr. (also originally from my community) was inducted. Reyes was father of Ernie Reyes, Jr., who did some acting (TV series "Sidekicks", a Teenage Mutant Turtle movie or two, an Indiana Jones movie, etc.) At 90, when I saw "Ferd",  he looked every bit of 275. Figure Donald Trump's height, some fat, but lots of muscle mass. Saying that, it doesn't even seem possible. Perhaps Rinderle is right on the heart... 

[Hubgeezer]

7 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

 

Just a 52 yo nitwit that's never won the overall at a contest and never will (although he's shockingly got a few 1st place awards from major comps).  To show how ridiculous this is, I got two first place medals at 2018 NAGS. 1 for masters and one for 120kg champ.  I think I was 7th overall and 3 or 4 guys in lower weight classes beat me that day.  C'mon!  I should have left there with... the knowledge I finished 7th in a strong field and absolutely nothing more. 

 

I can't agree more with what you say. In the last "King Kong", there was one woman in the "Over 50" category. One. 

The two lightest weight categories for the men did not have a lot of contestants, and the weight differential between the classes was not much. They could have been combined in my opinion. 

There is a saying: You can't manage what you don't measure. And, the way we are tracking things, we have no clue as to whether the "Over 60" is expanding or not. We absolutely positively know the "Over 50" has exploded the last several years. I "won" the over 50 in 2016, and I will never finish in the Top 5 in that category again. Is it because I am weaker? Nope. It is because there are more Over 50s in it now, and they are stronger. And that is because guys have been involved in grip for years, and apparently continue to be involved as they get older. How long does that continue? We have no idea. 

I have commented on how much strength is lost when you hit 60, and Chris Rice has said "wait until you get to your 70s". In something like "King Kong", how many over 60 are there? Three? There were three in LA alone. Is California the only place where over 60s compete? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. Does anyone want to know?  Or, in the words of Slim Farman, "Do you want to just keep flappin your gums?" 

I suspect it is "years" away before an "Over 60" category is warranted, perhaps never. But if what happened to the Over 50 category happens to the Over 60, it might not be that far off. 

Chris, I don't think an "Over 70" category will happen. There are not many Chris Rices running around the planet. But for record-keeping, yes, it should be tracked. 

I am pretty much only focused on King Kong, because there are so many categories already in place.  For other contests, as far as I am concerned, one giant category is fine by me. And, if you don't enter a contest because "It's not fair", you probably picked the wrong hobby/sport. Our biggest competitor is ourselves. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Hubgeezer

[Eric Roussin]

For those who are interested, in the 2019 contest there were 5 competitors between 60 and 69 years of age and 1 competitor who was 70+. In the 2018 contest, there were also 5 competitors 60-69 and 2 who were 70+.

[Hubgeezer]

2 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

For those who are interested, in the 2019 contest there were 5 competitors between 60 and 69 years of age and 1 competitor who was 70+. In the 2018 contest, there were also 5 competitors 60-69 and 2 who were 70+.

Wow, they ARE being tracked! 

So 3 out of 5 in one venue for over 60s.

Well, not there yet in terms of a category,  not even close. Chris Rice may be 77 or 78 before there is a 70 class at KK.

Thanks for looking that up Eric, appreciate it.

[Eric Roussin]

25 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

Wow, they ARE being tracked! 

So 3 out of 5 in one venue for over 60s.

Well, not there yet in terms of a category,  not even close. Chris Rice may be 77 or 78 before there is a 70 class at KK.

Thanks for looking that up Eric, appreciate it.

All results that are submitted with age information are being tracked. Right now, the database user interface is simply lacking display/search functionality.

By the way, in one of the grip contests held last year in Colorado (I think), a couple of 89-year-olds competed.

[Hubgeezer]

51 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

 

By the way, in one of the grip contests held last year in Colorado (I think), a couple of 89-year-olds competed.

Well, that changes everything! We need a 90 and over class in 2020!

51 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

 

 

[Shoggoth]

By the time more 70 year olds compete they’ll be vying for the Chris Rice achievement award. 

[climber511]

I've loving this - two 89 year olds competed?  These kinds of things need more recognition - 89 year olds!!! - what were their names and their results?  Who were the other 70+ year old guys who competed?  I honestly had no idea - I thought I was the only one in my age class.  this is great news to me.

Edited February 4, 2020 by climber511

[Eric Roussin]

21 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I've loving this - two 89 year olds competed?  These kinds of things need more recognition - 89 year olds!!! - what were their names and their results?  Who were the other 70+ year old guys who competed?  I honestly had no idea - I thought I was the only one in my age class.  this is great news to me.

R Sherman Lehman (89) and Lillian Lehman (88) are the two oldest competitors in the GSI database. They competed in the Sherman Tank Invitational, held in Kensington, California, last September. They did the 1.5" v-bar, the one-hand tips tester, the dub hub, and the inch pinch. 

Sherman's results: 12.25 kg v-bar; 10.14 kg tips tester; 3.61 kg dub hub; 4.54 kg inch pinch

Lillian's results: 14.14 kg v-bar; 11.39 kg tips tester; 4.75 kg dub hub; 11.79 kg (!) inch pinch

 

Gus Bush is 70 years old (maybe 71 now) and from Ontario, Canada. He's still very strong.

Jim Stefani (I think may actually be Jim Stoppani Sr.) is 75 and also has mighty hands. He managed a 37 kg one hand lift with the Flask in October 2018.

[climber511]

5 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

R Sherman Lehman (89) and Lillian Lehman (88) are the two oldest competitors in the GSI database. They competed in the Sherman Tank Invitational, held in Kensington, California, last September. They did the 1.5" v-bar, the one-hand tips tester, the dub hub, and the inch pinch. 

Sherman's results: 12.25 kg v-bar; 10.14 kg tips tester; 3.61 kg dub hub; 4.54 kg inch pinch

Lillian's results: 14.14 kg v-bar; 11.39 kg tips tester; 4.75 kg dub hub; 11.79 kg (!) inch pinch

 

Gus Bush is 70 years old (maybe 71 now) and from Ontario, Canada. He's still very strong.

Jim Stefani (I think may actually be Jim Stoppani Sr.) is 75 and also has mighty hands. He managed a 37 kg one hand lift with the Flask in October 2018.

Awesome!!!  I have met Jim several years ago at the Arnold I think ??? - nice guy and still quite strong.  Never heard of Gus Bush - I need to look him up.  Very very impressed with Sherman and Lillian - at 88-89 to even have the courage to step up on stage in a Grip Competition is outstanding!  And Lillian is one strong lady - great lifting!  Excites me to find I'm not alone out there.

[Eric Roussin]

1 minute ago, climber511 said:

Awesome!!!  I have met Jim several years ago at the Arnold I think ??? - nice guy and still quite strong.  Never heard of Gus Bush - I need to look him up.  Very very impressed with Sherman and Lillian - at 88-89 to even have the courage to step up on stage in a Grip Competition is outstanding!  And Lillian is one strong lady - great lifting!  Excites me to find I'm not alone out there.

Gus has competed in several contests over the past three years, including the Canadian Nationals, King Kong, and even the NAGS Championship in 2018. He was a competitive armwrestler for many years.

[Hubgeezer]

5 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

Gus has competed in several contests over the past three years, including the Canadian Nationals, King Kong, and even the NAGS Championship in 2018. He was a competitive armwrestler for many years.

Had no idea he was 70ish. I assumed he was 15 years younger.

Chris, check out his 2018 King Kong numbers. He beat me in all four events. His 2019 numbers were off, he must not have trained as much.

How about 75 kg on the 2.5 Crusher in 2018 at Age 69? There’s more than just you out there!

[Mike Rinderle]

6 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

Gus has competed in several contests over the past three years, including the Canadian Nationals, King Kong, and even the NAGS Championship in 2018. He was a competitive armwrestler for many years.

Gus is a beast.  I believe he beat me on the 2 3/8" Napalm's Nightmare in 2018 and got decent air under the Inch AFTER the contest!  Strongest handshake I've felt in... ever.  I would guess he weighs in around 250 and is built like a tank!  I almost fell over when they told me he was 69.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mike Rinderle