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Dumbbell from hell


Lennix

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3 hours ago, Climber028 said:

Lots of weird physics going on in here. Joe is right, length matters in difficulty it just doesn't affect the torque. That's why a one handed axle lift is harder than a dumbbell lift of the same diameter and weight

Do you have any evidence to support this? One hand Axle DL records are higher than [edit: half] the two hand Axle DL records. Despite being contested far less, the awkward balance component of one hand barbell lifts isn't enough to make it harder. So again, I would say the length is irrelevant.

Edited by DAVE101
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17 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Do you have any evidence to support this? One hand Axle DL records are higher than twice the two hand Axle DL records. Despite being contested far less, the awkward balance component of one hand barbell lifts isn't enough to make it harder. So again, I would say the length is irrelevant.

Here’s my evidence... I train with a short and long handle of the same diameter with the same weight, and the longer one is always more difficult.... there ya go.....actual real world experience. I wish I never got involved with this one, 🤦‍♂️  Try it yourself with your max dumbbell lift with a standard bell, then try the same weight on a bar of the same diameter  that’s a longer  length. You tell me which is harder? I can’t understand how anyone can or would argue this..... 

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23 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Do you have any evidence to support this? One hand Axle DL records are higher than twice the two hand Axle DL records. Despite being contested far less, the awkward balance component of one hand barbell lifts isn't enough to make it harder. So again, I would say the length is irrelevant.

NAGS One hand axle DL is not a lockout lift. 

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31 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Do you have any evidence to support this? One hand Axle DL records are higher than twice the two hand Axle DL records. Despite being contested far less, the awkward balance component of one hand barbell lifts isn't enough to make it harder. So again, I would say the length is irrelevant.

Try doing one arm barbell rows vs DB Oly handle-you be humbled and enlightened.

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1 minute ago, Kluv#0 said:

Try doing one arm barbell rows vs DB Oly handle-you be humbled and enlightened.

I am shaking my head at ones that don’t get it!!! I need to walk away now.... 🤣🤣🤣

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Just now, Joseph Sullivan said:

I am shaking my head at ones that don’t get it!!! I need to walk away now.... 🤣🤣🤣

No doubt!! A lion doesn't turn around to a small wild dog.

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51 minutes ago, Kluv#0 said:

Try doing one arm barbell rows vs DB Oly handle-you be humbled and enlightened.

Exactly. You're the one that got me to start doing these and they have made a huge impact on my wrist stability. Very underrated exercise. 

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1 hour ago, DAVE101 said:

Do you have any evidence to support this? One hand Axle DL records are higher than twice the two hand Axle DL records. Despite being contested far less, the awkward balance component of one hand barbell lifts isn't enough to make it harder. So again, I would say the length is irrelevant.

I wonder if the Axle OHDL records are higher partly because it's allowed to straddle the weight and lift it between the legs.  Not everyone on the list lifted straddle style, but for me it makes a noticeable difference.  Somewhere around 10-15lbs. Not having to pull the bar around the knees makes a big difference for anyone with a sketchy back.   

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And now... for the experiment... axle used and dumbbell handle used with same weight. 

Exhibit A) 2 3/8  inch axle thumbless one hand dead lift 150 pounds x 1 only 

Exhibit B) 2 3/8 inch thumbless one hand DL 150 pounds on 20 inch bell x almost 4 reps.

Findings.... the longer the bar the harder to lift the same amount of weight is, as demonstrated in above videos. Feel free, anyone, to duplicate this study.

 

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Joe, I’ve read your anecdote 3 times, posting it more does not turn your single case into a study. You’re just one person man, your anecdotal evidence is just that. 

@Kluv#0, one hand barbell lifts are easier from a grip perspective. The longer the bar, the more the flex, the less the rolling action. Again one hand (barbell) DL numbers are notably higher than their DOH (barbell) deadlift numbers. 

Personal experience is great, but it doesn’t change physics.

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35 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Joe, I’ve read your anecdote 3 times, posting it more does not turn your single case into a study. You’re just one person man, your anecdotal evidence is just that. 

@Kluv#0, one hand barbell lifts are easier from a grip perspective. The longer the bar, the more the flex, the less the rolling action. Again one hand (barbell) DL numbers are notably higher than their DOH (barbell) deadlift numbers. 

Personal experience is great, but it doesn’t change physics.

The physics of the bar being longer makes it harder. How don’t you see that? The longer the bar the more force it takes to overcome the extra length with the one hand  in the center to prevent the tilt of either side !! The further the weight on either side away from the fulcrum or pivot point will increase the difficulty on either side to keep the bar level, no?  I can feel it when doing it at max weights! Having to fight each side from tilting. You’re so  right! Physics.... that is why it’s harder. 

Try it yourself!! Take your max one hand dumbbell lift and put it on a barbell and do a one hand lift. I think you will find it is much harder to lift and balance so that one side doesn’t tilt and fall.

Believe what you like. I just did it and felt it. Same Diameter and same weight with  only difference being length of the bar. 

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19 minutes ago, DAVE101 said:

Joe, I’ve read your anecdote 3 times, posting it more does not turn your single case into a study. You’re just one person man, your anecdotal evidence is just that. 

@Kluv#0, one hand barbell lifts are easier from a grip perspective. The longer the bar, the more the flex, the less the rolling action. Again one hand (barbell) DL numbers are notably higher than their DOH (barbell) deadlift numbers. 

Personal experience is great, but it doesn’t change physics.

You think any barbell is gonna have substantial flex with only 150lbs? That's pretty wild. Obviously for a real deadlift this comes into play but if we're talking about the Inch weight it's going to be an extremely small factor that won't make up for the added difficulty of the balance problem. You're right that length doesn't affect torque, but that's only one factor of the lifts difficulty. 

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14 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

You think any barbell is gonna have substantial flex with only 150lbs? 

ANY barbell? Absolutely, 100%. But any good weightlifting bar will flex as well, and I suspect you can 1H DL much more than 150 lbs anyway. You thinking that's wild makes me wonder if you've ever been around a bent barbell. Most of the time you don't notice it's bent until you hold it, a sign that your grip is affected long before an obvious deflection is noticeable.

14 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

You're right that length doesn't affect torque, but that's only one factor of the lifts difficulty. 

But it is the main one, no? Is that not the limiting factor for everyone here? And in the case of an Inch DB, doesn't more tilt make it easier? The StrengthShop Inch dumbbells are longer than all the others, we can ask peoples' opinions on that one.

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Maybe 1 arm barbell DL is easier than 1 arm DB:) 

 

Edited by Kluv#0
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46 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

There is torque to consider in the plane parallel to the bar as well.

Changes in the hand, arm, wrist, shoulder, etc positions introduce torque in the plane parallel to the long axis of the bar (via force couple) at the hand during the lift. This is especially easy to see in the row. If the weights at the end of the bar remains constant, to counter the introduced rotation, the force couple (torque) at the hand would have to increase as the distance from the hand increased because the angular momentum would vary linearly by the distance from the pivot point, the hand.

What do you think math nerd? I'm shooting for a C+ here.

 

You're right, what I should have said was length doesn't affect the torque along the longest axis of the dumbell but it does affect the other two. I'm trying to keep things simple and not get bogged down in vocabulary. 

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Both sides are correct here. Holding from the center is same yet harder. When you lift 100Kg. It IS 100Kg whether you like it or not. On a barbell or a dumbbell. I have seen huge pile of steel (which weighs around 80 tons) hanged from the exact center on a construction tool. It was move be two people. It's physics. But, we are human. We aren't machines. When we lift from the center, it might not be the true center. Yes even 1MM to the right or left is hard. The pinkie or the index might get tired and the bar will bend thus the leverage or a barbell will play a big part. Also on a dumbbell we can easily brace it with our forearms thus less torque. So yes technically a center lift is supposed to me same but it shouldn't for us as human.

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