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Brachioradialis destruction! Recovery...


Goran Paulinič

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I have destroyed brachioradialis muscle on left hand. Too much wide grip pullups and hammer curls! Now it ails me at least for one mounth. I feel sharp pain when loading it and it hurts if I massage it. Luckily it isn't involved in gripper training and in pinch grip which surprised me. I can do chinups but not pullups. What should I do beside waiting and not loading it?

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1 hour ago, Goran Paulinič said:

I have destroyed brachioradialis muscle on left hand. Too much wide grip pullups and hammer curls! Now it ails me at least for one mounth. I feel sharp pain when loading it and it hurts if I massage it. Luckily it isn't involved in gripper training and in pinch grip which surprised me. I can do chinups but not pullups. What should I do beside waiting and not loading it?

 Foam Roll out your triceps, may release the tension. You may be very surprised with the results. Also, roll the BR as well.

Note: this is not medical advice and Jan intended for educational purposes only.

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24 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

 Foam Roll out your triceps, may release the tension. You may be very surprised with the results. Also, roll the BR as well.

Thank you. I extended the arm as much as I could to flex triceps to maximum and what happen was pain in brachioradialis. So there is proof for your holy words!!

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28 minutes ago, Goran Paulinič said:

Thank you. I extended the arm as much as I could to flex triceps to maximum and what happen was pain in brachioradialis. So there is proof for your holy words!!

Hope it works out!

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1 hour ago, Goran Paulinič said:

I have destroyed brachioradialis muscle on left hand. Too much wide grip pullups and hammer curls! Now it ails me at least for one mounth. I feel sharp pain when loading it and it hurts if I massage it. Luckily it isn't involved in gripper training and in pinch grip which surprised me. I can do chinups but not pullups. What should I do beside waiting and not loading it?

First of all, you need to cure your hand, and then think about training. You need to see a doctor. A good sports traumatologist is a rarity. But even a doctor of ordinary profile can, according to the results of an ultrasound survey, say if there is a rupture of a muscle, its fascia or tendon ... The brachioradialis works on almost all movements in the elbow, so if you can do at least some exercises, then most likely you have myositis developed due to overload and constant microstretching, not rupture. first aid in this situation is prescribed muscle relaxants that do not have a sedative effect (Mydocalm - tolperisone hydrochloryd) 150 mg two to three times a day and intramuscular injections of anti-inflammatory - Meloxicamum 1 ampoule for five days (then 5-10 days off and, if necessary, a second course) .. .

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12 minutes ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

First of all, you need to cure your hand, and then think about training. You need to see a doctor. A good sports traumatologist is a rarity. But even a doctor of ordinary profile can, according to the results of an ultrasound survey, say if there is a rupture of a muscle, its fascia or tendon ... The brachioradialis works on almost all movements in the elbow, so if you can do at least some exercises, then most likely you have myositis developed due to overload and constant microstretching, not rupture. first aid in this situation is prescribed muscle relaxants that do not have a sedative effect (Mydocalm - tolperisone hydrochloryd) 150 mg two to three times a day and intramuscular injections of anti-inflammatory - Meloxicamum 1 ampoule for five days (then 5-10 days off and, if necessary, a second course) .. .

I had the same symptoms he had and from the same kind of training and it was just from triceps restriction. Once the knots were released, normal function to my BR returned.  It was nearly instantaneous. Before recommending medications he should try this as It is most likely not something so serious. If he tries the soft tissue work and it doesn’t help, then maybe it is something else. A lot of pain is not because of the specific muscle affected but actually an antagonist or one that is in the kinematic chain that has some restrictions. 

Note: this is for educational purposes only and is not intended to be medical advice of any kind.

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I think that it is not very serious though it is nagging and I must pick exercises carefully. Muscle is strained, overtrained, damaged, not "destroyed" (that was for dramatic effect! :) ). I will try triceps release and BR massage as mentioned. I have experience with much more serious damage to muscles which eventualy healed (pectoralis, calves) and are now 100 %.

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54 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

 

Joseph, talking about any treatment without a diagnosis is generally not very correct.

 

If you are interested, read about what is etiotropic, pathogenetic and symptomatic therapy. this is too big a topic and I do not speak english so well to retell in my own words the contents of medical textbooks. What you offer is a pathogenetic therapy that works with a narrow range of possible diagnoses. What I propose is etiotropic and pathogenetic at the same time. and effective for most possible diagnoses (given the description of the problem). Accordingly, if "our patient" does not hit the target with one treatment option, then he will miss the time and muscle tissue will begin to break down due to inflammation and nerve conduction will be broken... In the second option, subject to the rules of injections, the worst case is a hematoma when piercing vessels ...

 

In any case - FIRST - this is a consultation with a doctor. But for example, in Ukraine, with a population of 30-40 million people, really good sports doctors, a couple of dozen in large cities and the cost of their services starts with my monthly salary for the initial consultation, without the cost of diagnosis and the like ... I think if the person had the opportunity to turn to a good doctor, he would not have written on the forum now .. My advice does not claim to be true, but is based on my sports experience and the sad experience of my personal injuries in arm wrestling (including injuries to the brachioradial received and similar circumstances), 18 years of coachin experience and having a certain relation to education in medicine ...

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30 minutes ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

Joseph, talking about any treatment without a diagnosis is generally not very correct.

 

If you are interested, read about what is etiotropic, pathogenetic and symptomatic therapy. this is too big a topic and I do not speak english so well to retell in my own words the contents of medical textbooks. What you offer is a pathogenetic therapy that works with a narrow range of possible diagnoses. What I propose is etiotropic and pathogenetic at the same time. and effective for most possible diagnoses (given the description of the problem). Accordingly, if "our patient" does not hit the target with one treatment option, then he will miss the time and muscle tissue will begin to break down due to inflammation and nerve conduction will be broken... In the second option, subject to the rules of injections, the worst case is a hematoma when piercing vessels ...

 

In any case - FIRST - this is a consultation with a doctor. But for example, in Ukraine, with a population of 30-40 million people, really good sports doctors, a couple of dozen in large cities and the cost of their services starts with my monthly salary for the initial consultation, without the cost of diagnosis and the like ... I think if the person had the opportunity to turn to a good doctor, he would not have written on the forum now .. My advice does not claim to be true, but is based on my sports experience and the sad experience of my personal injuries in arm wrestling (including injuries to the brachioradial received and similar circumstances), 18 years of coachin experience and having a certain relation to education in medicine ...

You are over thinking it, Ivan. Most muscular issues come from tissue restrictions or a difference between the agonist antagonist strength differences in my experience in outpatient physical therapy. He is not going to hurt himself foam rolling muscle groups. Start small, then move on. “Most” injuries such as this  are a result of what i mentioned in my previous post.

I am done here, now, Goran. Good luck with your rehabbing.

 

note: this is NOT medical advice and is to be treated as educational purposes only. I assume no liability 

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4 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

Rest and massage it sounds like. Also foam rolling. Agonist training. Looking at your rom for various muscles, maybe you are too restricted somewhere and need to work on mobility. Usually it doesn't have to be that complicated as Joe says. Each time I have been to a doctor for advice/diagnosis for stuff like this I have been better of on my own in the end. If it is so serious that a doctor is needed I think you'd be able to tell yourself pretty easily. 

Most doctors know jack shizzy about musculoskeletal injury unless they are an osteopath. It’s scary the things that they tell my patients before they come to PT.

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Wow, you started a fire with that post @Goran Paulinič. Ivan took it literally and Joe just gave you some common sense advise for the average person complaining of pain in that area.

My Brachs complex took a bit of a beating on the way to my first one arm chinup (at 47). It was a real balancing act between doing enough to make progress and doing a little bit too much and getting tendonitis. So in the early stages I'd push into tendonitis and have to back right off  and recover only to do it again a few weeks later. In the end I just had reschedule my goal for the OAC a few months later and tried to avoid ever pushing that far in training until I finally got one.

When it happened I'd just rest until it stopped hurting and eased back into training a be sure not to push too hard until I knew I was ready, normally never more than 2 or 3 weeks. Tissue work made a big difference for me though, Like Joe said you need to try to release any tension in your arms, biceps, triceps.

I have a liniment I made years ago based on a dit da jow with bucket load of Arnica montana & comfrey added to it and it's a better analgesic and anti inflammatory than any non injectable anti inflammatory or steroid I'd ever tried without the negative effects. So if I get a strain that and rest are my go to treatments. I think the tissue work and tension I release in the time when I'm rubbing the jow in is as useful or maybe even more useful than the liniment is itself.

Be careful digging in too deep for a tendon attachment point massage though, (where your brachioradialis inserts into your humerus) you don't want to try to manipulate that like you would for a muscle release, you just want to get a bit bit of warmth into it and stimulate a bit of bloodflow in there, so don't dig into that while it's sore, use a flat palm.

The Brach's can get sore fairly quick but they heal fairly quick too.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Raymond said:

Wow, you started a fire with that post @Goran Paulinič. Ivan took it literally and Joe just gave you some common sense advise for the average person complaining of pain in that area.

My Brachs complex took a bit of a beating on the way to my first one arm chinup (at 47). It was a real balancing act between doing enough to make progress and doing a little bit too much and getting tendonitis. So in the early stages I'd push into tendonitis and have to back right off  and recover only to do it again a few weeks later. In the end I just had reschedule my goal for the OAC a few months later and tried to avoid ever pushing that far in training until I finally got one.

When it happened I'd just rest until it stopped hurting and eased back into training a be sure not to push too hard until I knew I was ready, normally never more than 2 or 3 weeks. Tissue work made a big difference for me though, Like Joe said you need to try to release any tension in your arms, biceps, triceps.

I have a liniment I made years ago based on a dit da jow with bucket load of Arnica montana & comfrey added to it and it's a better analgesic and anti inflammatory than any non injectable anti inflammatory or steroid I'd ever tried without the negative effects. So if I get a strain that and rest are my go to treatments. I think the tissue work and tension I release in the time when I'm rubbing the jow in is as useful or maybe even more useful than the liniment is itself.

Be careful digging in too deep for a tendon attachment point massage though, (where your brachioradialis inserts into your humerus) you don't want to try to manipulate that like you would for a muscle release, you just want to get a bit bit of warmth into it and stimulate a bit of bloodflow in there, so don't dig into that while it's sore, use a flat palm.

The Brach's can get sore fairly quick but they heal fairly quick too.

 

 

 

I wouldn’t give @Ivan Pupchenko too much of a hard time about it. English is not his first language and he saw the statement that “his brachioradialis was destroyed” and didn’t recognize the exaggeration/sarcasm that Americans do. His heart was in the right place and took it literally. Many people that don’t have English as their first language have this difficulty distinguishing the subtle embellishments . I can tell you I am impressed though, because I couldn’t even begin to even imagine how to communicate in their languages. 

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1 minute ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

I wouldn’t give @Ivan Pupchenko too much of a hard time about it. English is not his first language and he saw the statement that “his brachioradialis was destroyed” and didn’t recognize the exaggeration/sarcasm that Americans do. His heart was in the right place and took it literally. Many people that don’t have English as their first language have this difficulty distinguishing the subtle embellishments . I can tell you I am impressed though, because I couldn’t even begin to even imagine how to communicate in their languages. 

That was my take too, Ivan gave him better advice than some doctors would if it was destroyed. It was a leading title for a post and Ivan had a treatment plan worked out for him based on the details he saw. It was good advice though.

 

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2 minutes ago, Raymond said:

That was my take too, Ivan gave him better advice than some doctors would if it was destroyed. It was a leading title for a post and Ivan had a treatment plan worked out for him based on the details he saw. It was good advice though.

 

Yes. Very advanced advice beyond soft tissue dysfunction. 

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4 hours ago, Raymond said:

Wow, you started a fire with that post @Goran Paulinič. Ivan took it literally and Joe just gave you some common sense advise for the average person complaining of pain in that area.

My Brachs complex took a bit of a beating on the way to my first one arm chinup (at 47). It was a real balancing act between doing enough to make progress and doing a little bit too much and getting tendonitis. So in the early stages I'd push into tendonitis and have to back right off  and recover only to do it again a few weeks later. In the end I just had reschedule my goal for the OAC a few months later and tried to avoid ever pushing that far in training until I finally got one.

When it happened I'd just rest until it stopped hurting and eased back into training a be sure not to push too hard until I knew I was ready, normally never more than 2 or 3 weeks. Tissue work made a big difference for me though, Like Joe said you need to try to release any tension in your arms, biceps, triceps.

I have a liniment I made years ago based on a dit da jow with bucket load of Arnica montana & comfrey added to it and it's a better analgesic and anti inflammatory than any non injectable anti inflammatory or steroid I'd ever tried without the negative effects. So if I get a strain that and rest are my go to treatments. I think the tissue work and tension I release in the time when I'm rubbing the jow in is as useful or maybe even more useful than the liniment is itself.

Be careful digging in too deep for a tendon attachment point massage though, (where your brachioradialis inserts into your humerus) you don't want to try to manipulate that like you would for a muscle release, you just want to get a bit bit of warmth into it and stimulate a bit of bloodflow in there, so don't dig into that while it's sore, use a flat palm.

The Brach's can get sore fairly quick but they heal fairly quick too.

 

 

 

I am very interested in the specifics of your liniment.  Would you mind detailing it more specifically, like proportions of each ingredient and how you mix it up and apply it?  Thanks.

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Guys, no "fire" from me! If I was experiencing any kind of negative, it was only in relation to my knowledge of the language and the inability to correctly convey my thoughts!

I agree with Joe that most doctors are more likely to amputate your arm than try to cure it ... That's why I tried to say that is needed a consultation with a skilled sports traumatologist ... who understands the importance of training and speedy recovery for the patient. And dont  give one advice for all injuries - leave the sport, lifting things harder than 10 kg will kill you! ...

I can explain the meaning of my words about the use drugs indicated by me .. Joe's advice is a pathogenetic therapy that is used with a limited number of possible diagnoses (based on the description) .... And it rarely gives a quick effect. And with such injuries, lost time can lead to more serious illnesses than the damage itself. Prolonged inflammation destroys tissues, muscles, bones, connective tissue. Pain syndrome with spasm or inflammation can disrupt the conduction of impulses along nerve fibers for a long time and sometimes forever ... Therefore, this method of physiotherapy is used as the main one only with an ACCURATE diagnosis, not burdened by inflammation and pain, or as an auxiliary method...
In choosing treatment methods, doctor should use all types of therapy - etiotropic, pathogenetic, sanogenic and symptomatic. Etiotropic is a therapy aimed at the cause of the disease. And this is the basis of treatment. The next most important - pathogenetic (aimed at blocking the mechanism of the disease) and symptomatic - aimed at eliminating the symptoms ... Since there was an injury to the muscle or connective tissue (tendon) by excessive loads, the body did not have time to repair microstrains of microstretching, with a probability of more than 90 % developed inflammation and spasm due to it. Micro-bursts themselves are not cured by anything, you can only help the body grow them - this is protein-rich food, relaxation, normalization of the hormonal background after hard training. (although there are drugs based on enzymes and polypeptide complexes that can speed up the healing process of such injuries at times) .. But now inflammation and spasm are independent processes.
In this case, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug is an etiotropic, pathogenetic and symptomatic drug in one. It interrupts the chemical processes of inflammation in the tissues, blocks the formation and accumulation of substances that will lead to the degradation of neighboring tissues and relieves pain. Meloxicamum is one of the safest on the list of such. But it also has its limitations, so it is rarely used in dosages of more than an ampoule per day and longer than 5 days in a row ... If the patient does not have individual intolerance, then this is one of the best options ... Perhaps Nimesulidum is safer, but it injection forms are rare and very expensive, and oral ones require an increase in dosages and load the liver ... Meloxicam ampoule costs from 0.75 to 3 dollars in Ukraine, depending on the manufacturer's company ...
Mydokalm is an antispasmodic. Its action is aimed at interrupting the foci of generating nerve impulses in the spinal cord, which cause constant muscle contraction and provoke and increase inflammation, cause severe pain and impaired mobility .... This is one of the few antispasmodics that do not have a sedative effect and do not disturb metabolic processes in the body. You can drive a car, use weapons and live a normal life with him. Highly trained athletes take it at the stages of high loads to remove muscle hypertonicity that interferes with normal recovery ... This drug costs about $ 3-4 for 10 tablets of 150 mg ... In this case, this drug is a pathogenetic and symptomatic therapy ..

Sanogenic therapy - is aimed at activating general and local mechanisms of compensation, regeneration, protection, restoration and repair of injuries and changes in tissues and cells caused by a phlogogenic agent, as well as the consequences of its influence. With such an injury, this is nutrition, massage, relaxation, light workouts aimed at restoring blood circulation and preventing the formation of scar tissue and reducing mobility ...
 

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On 10/19/2019 at 5:33 AM, jchapman said:

I am very interested in the specifics of your liniment.  Would you mind detailing it more specifically, like proportions of each ingredient and how you mix it up and apply it?  Thanks.

Sorry for the slow reply, I've been away from home for the last few days.

I made the liniment about 6 years ago, so the full details are a bit hard to remember. I started with a traditional dit da jow recipe that I found on a Kung Fu website and sourced as many herbs as I could locally and just winged it for the proportions of each. From memory the ingredients which went into it were.

Red Peony, white Peony, Safflower, Rhubarb, Corydalis, Ginseng, Dragons blood (resin), Chinese angelica, Frankincense, Myrrh, cloves, cinnamon,  camphor.

I put it all into a 5 liter demijohn and covered it with 70% alcohol and let it steep for a few weeks . Then I tested it by creating bruises with a vacuum cupping device and comparing bruises that were being treated with the liniment to bruises allowed to heal naturally and bruises rubbed with 70% alcohol (this was just to see if rubbing alone was responsible for the healing). I proved quite conclusively that the liniment was healing the bruises faster than not treating them or just rubbing alcohol into them. So I'd proved it works at least on a superficial level.

So that worked better than I expected it would & I decided to do some experiments with western herbs and made another liniment with Oregano, thyme, rosemary, cayenne pepper, cloves, ginger root, Turmeric root & pepper corns. I ran a few tests on bruises that I made with the cupping device and it worked almost as well as the Dit da Jow at healing the bruise but it didn't have as much of an analgesic effect.

Then I made a batch using arnica flowers and comfrey root with nothing else except 70% alcohol and it worked quite well too.

So now it goes through three stages, the dit da jow first, then I strain it and put the liquid into the Oregano & Thyme mix and then tip that into the bottle with the Arnica and Comfrey. So I cycle it through and just use the liniment when it's been through all 3 stages and top up the first bottle with clean spirits to keep it all going. So now that I've made that sound overly complicated, it really doesn't have to be, you could just buy a dit da jow herb mix from ebay and soak it in vodka for a few weeks and it would work well from what I've seen. It seems to get better with age though, it works better now than it did when I first made it.

To use it for a general massage I just get a cap full from the wine bottle I keep the finished liniment in and massage it it in.For an injury I soak a paper towel with liniment and wrap the area with plastic food wrap. If it's a chronic injury that hasn't happened that day I'll use a heat pack on the area at the same time but for recent injuries you want to avoid too much heat in the early stages.

So for hijacking your thread @Goran Paulinič

 

 

 

 

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I was foam rolling tricep muscle. It was a gateway to the domain of pain! After it I felt strong release in the affected arm and slight tingeling below elbow to the fingers. Tricep-brachiradialis, agonist-antagonist relation- there must be a catch. And acute overload with trainning ofcourse.

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1 hour ago, Goran Paulinič said:

I was foam rolling tricep muscle. It was a gateway to the domain of pain! After it I felt strong release in the affected arm and slight tingeling below elbow to the fingers. Tricep-brachiradialis, agonist-antagonist relation- there must be a catch. And acute overload with trainning ofcourse.

You are definitely on the right track, my man! That’s a key sign!  Keep it up and do some very low load, high rep work after to increase the therapeutic release to get some active movement and blood flow! The tingle of the elbow and fingers was the restoring of the nerve function the was blocked due to the restrictions of the muscle knots. EXCELLENT!

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