Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ChimpGrip

Grip strength needed to do this?

Recommended Posts

ChimpGrip

I thought this would be interesting and kind of funny. Saw this clip recently and thought I would share this scenario on here. 

How strong should your crush grip be to do what Arnold does in this scene? Be a CoC #4 closer?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John McCarter

Gripping the hands shown in the clip would involve simple joint-locks you can learn from Jujitsu, Judo and any real self-defence instructor. It's not about crushing the hand, you are attempting to limit the person's movement so you can control the flow of combat. You could be around the strength level of a coc Trainer and do this with no problem.

Edit: You also have to think of the legal consequence if you were to physically crush an individual's hand in a combat situation. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivan Pupchenko

The Terminator franchise includes many books, comics, and films / TV shows. In which, in the aggregate, the technical features of all robots from this "universe" are described quite extensively (although sometimes contradictory). in these sources it is mentioned that T-800 engines developed a force of 200 kg per square cm ... If you don’t bother too much with calculating the area of the gripper handles under the fingers during closing (and some other moments) given their circular cross section and circular cross section of falanges, using the testimony of various dynamometers and calibrations of gripper, we can take, to a first approximation, that the average force of a person’s finger when closing CoC-4 is about 40 kg per square cm  .. Although the actual effort of the fingers is very different, the index finger and the middle will give up to 80 percent of the total result ...

Edited by Ivan Pupchenko
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fist of Fury
8 hours ago, John McCarter said:

Gripping the hands shown in the clip would involve simple joint-locks you can learn from Jujitsu, Judo and any real self-defence instructor. It's not about crushing the hand, you are attempting to limit the person's movement so you can control the flow of combat. You could be around the strength level of a coc Trainer and do this with no problem.

Edit: You also have to think of the legal consequence if you were to physically crush an individual's hand in a combat situation. 

And there's s super easy tricks you can learn so that any person can squeeze your hand as hard as they want and you won't feel anything. Doesn't matter how strong they are.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John McCarter
4 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

And there's s super easy tricks you can learn so that any person can squeeze your hand as hard as they want and you won't feel anything. Doesn't matter how strong they are.

Exactly.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hopefully
10 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

And there's s super easy tricks you can learn so that any person can squeeze your hand as hard as they want and you won't feel anything. Doesn't matter how strong they are.

I know what you mean. However it would be interesting trying to test this out with Nathan or someone of similar strength. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Callahan
On 10/12/2019 at 10:39 PM, Ivan Pupchenko said:

 If you don’t bother too much with calculating the area of the gripper handles under the fingers during closing (and some other moments) given their circular cross section and circular cross section of falanges, using the testimony of various dynamometers and calibrations of gripper, we can take, to a first approximation, that the average force of a person’s finger when closing CoC-4 is about 40 kg per square cm  .. Although the actual effort of the fingers is very different, the index finger and the middle will give up to 80 percent of the total result ...

Did you calculate all of this yourself, or do you have a source(s) I could refer to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anthony C.

I need your boots, your clothes, and your motorcycle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivan Pupchenko
10 hours ago, Bob Callahan said:

Did you calculate all of this yourself, or do you have a source(s) I could refer to?

It was a very quick attempt to evaluate the force (kg/square centimeter ) required to close the 4-th, developed by the fingers of human. This attempt does not pretend to be true, but is most likely quite close to it. I think that it is impossible to accurately calculate this parameter, because the fingers of a human develop different forces at different points of the amplitude, not only because of different levers, but also because the main load in different parts of the amplitude falls on different muscles. Hands of different sizes, with different finger lengths, different widths, different muscularities (palm topography) on the same dynamometer will show different results for people who actually close the same gripper for one rep.
For example - according to my personal experience, people showing from 85 to 100 kg of dynamometry can close the same CoC-3 from a 20mm block. At the same time, I personally closed No. 3 with 85kg dynamometry several reps, but I saw with my own eyes the athletes who have 100-105kg but did not close No. 3 by about a cm ...
Theoretically, to close 95 kg rgc No. 4 with from 20mm block, 130-140 kg of dynamometry is needed (source of this information is the dynamometry of people who close similar grippers or close to them), and 160-170 for ccs. Theoretically, I took the area of contact of one finger with a gripper handle for 1 square cm (although it is clear that this value will be different for fingers of different thicknesses). And  purely theoretically divided the required effort into four. Having received +/-40kg per square centimeter .... If we take into account the different strength of the fingers, taking all these calculations as close to the truth, then the actual forefinger will give about 55kg, middle finger - 65kg, annular finger - 30 and the little finger - 20 ...


What I definitely made a mistake is a cyborg model. In the movie "Terminator 2" cyborg is a T-850 model, not  T-800, as in "Terminator 1"))). But the difference between them is mainly only in the used batteries))) A quick source of this information is the thematic fandom-wiki....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Callahan
14 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

...the actual forefinger will give about 55kg, middle finger - 65kg, annular finger - 30 and the little finger - 20 ...

Quote

Individual digital contributions to total grip strength were approximately 25%, 35%, 26% and 15% for the index, long, ring, and small fingers respectively.

From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9607650

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Callahan
14 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

...the actual forefinger will give about 55kg, middle finger - 65kg, annular finger - 30 and the little finger - 20 ...

I also found this:

Quote

In our study, exclusion of the ulnar two digits resulted in up to a 54% decrease in grip strength. Exclusion of the little finger from a functional grip pattern decreased the overall grip strength by 33%. Exclusion of the ring finger from a functional grip pattern decreased the overall grip strength by 21%

From: https://www.pulsus.com/scholarly-articles/contribution-of-the-ulnar-digits-to-grip-strength.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivan Pupchenko
58 minutes ago, Bob Callahan said:

 

This is a matter of anatomy and physiology, not just the power of muscle contraction. It is impossible to completely squeeze only one finger or relax one without relaxing the neighboring one.

I do not agree with the numbers you quoted. try to lift the weight with your index finger and ring finger - the difference will be almost twice if the person did not use special training methods for the two lower fingers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Callahan
23 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

It is impossible to completely squeeze only one finger or relax one without relaxing the neighboring one.

Interesting. I'm a rock climber, and on difficult climbs often use a single finger as is shown by the climbers in the photos below. I joined this gripboard specifically hoping to learn new methods of training. I currently do single-finger training of each finger with yielding isometrics, a concept familiar to anyone who has done a static hold on grippers, done a farmer's walk, or used Joe Kinney's Secret Weapon.

3f5ff44fb26a3e79bc2df3a80c97691c.jpg

images.jpg

Edited by Bob Callahan
Added content

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivan Pupchenko
1 hour ago, Bob Callahan said:

 

Rumor has it that Tibetan monks know how to levitate during meditation, but even if this is true, this does not mean that these skills are the medical norm for a human as a biological species. Due to specific and focused training, your little finger can even become stronger than your index finger some day.... But this does not affect the difference in the strength of the fingers compression of other people. And it will remain your realy great personal achievement, worthy of our applause and respect!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChimpGrip
On 10/12/2019 at 8:28 PM, John McCarter said:

Gripping the hands shown in the clip would involve simple joint-locks you can learn from Jujitsu, Judo and any real self-defence instructor. It's not about crushing the hand, you are attempting to limit the person's movement so you can control the flow of combat. You could be around the strength level of a coc Trainer and do this with no problem.

Edit: You also have to think of the legal consequence if you were to physically crush an individual's hand in a combat situation. 

Right, but let’s assume you do are untrained in Judo, Juijitsu, etc., and that all you know how to do is grab squeeze as hard as you can. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John McCarter
1 hour ago, ChimpGrip said:

Right, but let’s assume you do are untrained in Judo, Juijitsu, etc., and that all you know how to do is grab squeeze as hard as you can. 

Here is what I would do if i had to fight. Start gripping their neck or balls , depending on what I can get to first and do what force is reasonable enough and get away from the fight.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChimpGrip
26 minutes ago, John McCarter said:

Here is what I would do if i had to fight. Start gripping their neck or balls , depending on what I can get to first and do what force is reasonable enough and get away from the fight.

 

If you could block set and close a heavy GHP 10, would that be enough strength to crush someone’s hand in a traditional handshake-style grip?

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John McCarter

No clue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joseph Sullivan
On 10/17/2019 at 9:05 AM, Anthony C. said:

I need your boots, your clothes, and your motorcycle.

Ta taaa take it... TAAAKKEEE ITTTT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob Callahan
9 hours ago, Ivan Pupchenko said:

And it will remain your realy great personal achievement, worthy of our applause and respect!

Thank you--but don't be too impressed. There are lots of climbers who can do this. Since the ring and little fingers are the weakest, but have the most mechanical advantage in closing grippers, I wonder if it would be useful to train them separately. Maybe using an apparatus similar to what is described in the articles linked here: https://toclimb8a.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/new-methods-for-finger-training-4/

Here's a photo of Adam Macke doing something similar:

Adam Macke n.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joseph Sullivan
13 minutes ago, Bob Callahan said:

Thank you--but don't be too impressed. There are lots of climbers who can do this. Since the ring and little fingers are the weakest, but have the most mechanical advantage in closing grippers, I wonder if it would be useful to train them separately. Maybe using an apparatus similar to what is described in the articles linked here: https://toclimb8a.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/new-methods-for-finger-training-4/

Here's a photo of Adam Macke doing something similar:

Adam Macke n.jpg

Most certainly would be a benefit to train them separately. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivan Pupchenko
55 minutes ago, Bob Callahan said:

 

 

Thanks for the link! I will read this material tomorrow .. I know that separate workouts apply. And use them for rehabilitation after tunnel syndrome. I don’t think it makes sense to conduct a “scientific debate” about whether the little finger can match the strength of index. it's like talking about whether hands can become stronger than legs. Yes, they can, if the legs are weak ... The requirements of your sport and your individual characteristics may allow you to acquire and maintain such proportions of power, but as far as grip sport, or arm wrestling, for example, focused on lower-fingers training will only allow the upper-fingers to become even stronger, in time for performing basic exercises with rolling handles, vertical bars or other things requiring their joint work .... In any case, the result will be one - the hand and its grip will become stronger, and only this is important ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy policies.