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Nathan Holle


Wannagrip

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Wannagrip

I did a little research. I know a few others have (Oldguy for example). Let's take a look. Starting with this:

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album01/abu

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album01/abt

A Super Elite close and an Invanko in the 10-12 settings.

Note the thickness of the hand on the hand "base side" in this one:

http://www.cyberpump.com/gallery/album01/abq

Now, these posts from July 4, 2002:

Hi all,

  Hope everyone in the U.S is having a great July 4th. I think this forum is a great place for all of us interested in grip,  as it has so many knowledgeable people exchanging tips. From what i've read my training differs from what most seem to be doing, but it seems to be working well for us. My training mainly is trying the grippers 6-10 times (always with chalk) spread through the day, everyday. I only have days off if I tear my skin or have any other injury.

  I don't own the SuperGripper but when I can get a go of it,  I like it a lot. It's handles are easier on the skin (sometimes you can use it even when blistered), when closing it unsupported I find it best to close it in the finger tips until the last 10 mm,then curl the fingers around to close it.  My Super Elite is 70 mm wide (measured from the points that touch at the close) .Thankyou all for the kind comments.

I agree 70mm is a good size, yes I go for the heavier gripper straight away. I don't do a warm-up, just grab the gripper and squeeze. Strongerthanarne - I do not mind at all, I'm working on the 4.

Thanks again

In (edited to save space) Nathan says his training is 4 days per week and he does a warmup with a 3 (ONE SINGLE) and then 4-6 singles with the 4 and then one overcrush with the 3. Now, since I am always analyzing this stuff....

He used to work grippers 6-10 times per DAY with no warmup. Does that mean one single or 10 for 6-10 workouts? We don't know. Now that would rip skin and make huge callouses for sure (note his mention of skin tears in the above post and Chris Jame's recent quote on "skin grooves" in Nathan's hand)

That's changed now. Since he can 2-finger the 3 (see MILO) and talks about him repping the 3 like nothing it sure doesn't make much sense to me to do one single with the 3 and end with a single with the 3. We know he has harder grippers (see the gallery) than a 3 but not harder than a 4.

In two different threads, I always cut to the chase and ask for more details like after the post he posted above:

How far do you get it down on each attempt? And, what method of progression are you then using?

He never responded. Note how I mention progression since that seems to be a missing element. He's been elusive multiple times when I asked these direct questions.

My opinion: Don't believe everything you read in magazines. I don't believe we really know how he trained nor do we know his training history (injury could be the reason he now does a light warmup). We do know he was on his way to the 4 though over a year ago based on some of the pictures that were submitted.

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RJ Strossen, apparently decided that "grip nut" stuff wasnt that interesting for the average MILO reader. Why would he even mention if the gripper was sent in for authentification? How funny is that t

Wannagrip
I begin to understand now why RJ Strossen acts/responds the way he does when it comes to the Gripboard  :mellow

Why do you say this? Nothing like interpreting a post as NEGATIVE when it was not intended as such.

What Nathan tells Randy and how he trains has nothing to do with MILO. It's not Randy's issue at all. He prints what he's told. I would just like to know how his training has changed/progressed in the last year.

I personally continually search for new ways to train and push the limits. I hunger for new info on training. This is what spawned the post. I am curious to know his training history, etc. to look for correlations to what I have experienced. For example, myself and Terminator recently thought of a new idea for training grippers. Most of us are not genetically gifted. Guys like Rick Walker are "thinkers" who continually use their brain matter and use themselves as lab rats.

Joe Roark gets pinged by some people with respect to some of his writings and History. Why? Because he's a THINKER. He analyzes. He gathers all the info. He questions inconsistencies. He asks questions. He asks questions. He asks questions. He re-analyzes. He trys to use logic rather than rhetoric and emotion. If that's my rep too, so be it.

The reason Kinney reached such a level is he not only was gifted genetically but he was a THINKER!

If anything, I am also demonstrating Nathan's strength was super crush levels over a year ago so it should not be a suprise to anyone he closed the 4!

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Wannagrip

Part of the reason for my post was to point out Nathan's strength level over a year ago. :)

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Patrick B,

How does Randy respond to the grip board? How does he act toward it?

This is not sarcastic- I really am not aware- unless you mean he ignores it?

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"That's changed now. Since he can 2-finger the 3 (see MILO) and talks about him repping the 3 like nothing it sure doesn't make much sense to me to do one single with the 3 and end with a single with the 3. We know he has harder grippers (see the gallery) than a 3 but not harder than a 4."

Please elaborate why does it not make sense to you? Why exactly should he end his workout with anything even near his "1RM" ? Hell, after those 4-6 singles on a # 4 I'm not sure what you expect him to do. It wouldn't be very surprising to me if he couldn't close anything harder than a # 3 after those singles. Then again, I'm not sure why do you even think it is necessary for him to end his workout with a harder gripper.

"He's been elusive multiple times when I asked these direct questions."

I remember when he used to write on this board...

The problem with his "elusiveness" may just be that he didn't have access to a

computer very often.

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Wannagrip
Please elaborate why does it not make sense to you? Why exactly should he end his workout with anything even near his "1RM" ? Hell, after those 4-6 singles on a # 4 I'm not sure what you expect him to do.

If he can close a 4 for 10 seconds as Chris has reported, 4-5 singles even for multiple second closes is not going to totally smoke the guy. I would be surprised if it did based on what we know.

Follow that with a 3 close? If he is just doing positive closes, it makes it even more worthless given he was on rep 12 and smiling according to MILO and it alluded to his ability to do the thing for MANY more.

His strength level dictates the 3 would child's play even after doing 4 closes. Especially if he is doing grippers multiple times per week -- which he is.

I am basing this on plenty of practical experience of not only myself, but many others.

I tend to analyze all info including others experience, my experience, past history, past information, etc. before making these statements.

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Wannagrip

Oh, I continue to be a "nag" as John Szimanski calls it because I am VERY interested in grip training theory and practical application. Call it research "curious" or whatever. Which is why there were actual guys used as "lab rats" for KTA (for more than 9 months) before the program was released.

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"If he can close a 4 for 10 seconds as Chris has reported, 4-5 singles even for multiple second closes is not going to totally smoke the guy. I would be surprised if it did based on what we know."

Yes, but that is where I think you're assuming too much. Why do you think his training should "totally smoke him out" ? I see absolutely no need for that.

The whole issue seems to be about you thinking that Nathan needs to train very close to his "1RM" all the time, which, if we can draw from experiences of, say for example, powerlifters and weightlifters,can actually be detrimental for strength gains.

"Follow that with a 3 close? If he is just doing positive closes, it makes it even more worthless given he was on rep 12 and smiling according to MILO and it alluded to his ability to do the thing for MANY more."

Again, I think you are assuming that his training needs to be really close to failure.

So what if the # 3 is easy for him even after those singles with the # 4?

You need to tell me why do you think he (Nathan Holle) needs to end his workout with a gripper that is anywhere near his max?

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Wannagrip
Yes, but that is where I think you're assuming too much. Why do you think his training should "totally smoke him out" ? I see absolutely no need for that.

Are you reading my posts? That's what I am saying. Assuming it does NOT smoke him out then doing a 3 close is about absolutely worthless at that strength level. It doesn't make sense so that's why I asked the question in the first place. I am curious as to the "why". Also, again, I am curious as to why he does a warmup now and didn't before. Did he injure himself? Why cut back on the grippers? Was he not recovering? Did he go down in strength? Isn't anyone curious about some of this stuff? I guess I am the only one? :)

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mobsterone

Aatu, I've stayed out of this post because I would like to be in Nathan's shows at some point - having you guys argue over my training methods.

I disagree with and it has to be said it works for many, many here the basic premise of working every day as recommended by the KTA (I know I've over simplified it) but I do agree that in order to even just be a CoC with a 3 and perhaps later a 4 you need to 'fry' the hands.

While I enjoy some natural talent - thank goodness - I also had to work hard for the 3 and know I will have to work harder still for the four.

Many would-be CoC's miss the simple facts that 1) a small degree of obssession is required 2) you need to squeeze the damn gripper like it was the neck of killer of a parent - squeeze it like a mutha! 3) don't be afraid of blood, blisters or dents in the hand.

Re the 1rm etc. I have said elsewhere and this is why the KTA does work for some that most kinds, inc gripper, of grip strength exercises do NOT stress the CNS (central nervous system) like some exercises do and that's why you can ghet away with what would otherwise be way too much.

Do not make the mistake, CNS/Over-training wise, of thinking that a so-called all out assault of the hand and its grip strength is the same as doing 6-7 1rm squats. Two days if that and you'd need to see a doctor.

As part of my assualt on the 4 I'm doing my usual Tuesday full body and Saturday upper body training. However, I'm also doing 2-3 gripper sessions and one of those(thursday) is all round grip work.

My gripper w/o only last about 20 minutes. Nice bit of hard rock on the stereo, coffee just drunk and attitude adjustment and I'm away holding a RB 300ip or 330ip gripper at the finish and doing holds with the damn thing 1/4 of an inch short of closure for 20 seconds or thereabouts.

You can bet good money I'll have squeezed it so hard that they'll be 'dents' and 'white patches' on my hands. These go in five minutes.

I'd say that the vast majority of CoC's here have trained to or during their training at their 1rm each and every time on the way to becoming a CoC. That's also part of the KTA.

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mobsterone
Yes, but that is where I think you're assuming too much. Why do you think his training should "totally smoke him out" ? I see absolutely no need for that.

Are you reading my posts? That's what I am saying. Assuming it does NOT smoke him out then doing a 3 close is about absolutely worthless at that strength level. It doesn't make sense so that's why I asked the question in the first place. I am curious as to the "why". Also, again, I am curious as to why he does a warmup now and didn't before. Did he injure himself? Why cut back on the grippers? Was he not recovering? Did he go down in strength? Isn't anyone curious about some of this stuff? I guess I am the only one? :)

I warm up.

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I guess that we do not know for sure how Nathan trains. I had assumed from his posts of last year, that he just grabbed the gripper he was trying to close several times throughout the day and did a few singles. As Nathan no longer posts here, and may not be able to, perhaps Chris James could she some light on Nathan's training leading up to his certification. Are there even any pics of the #4 close in Milo? I am not doubting anything, or being negative, but it would be nice to have pics and training info and so on about this recent monumental achievment. Somehow I don't think we are going to get anymore details we have already.

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Yes old guy there is one lose up of the close. BTW where do you live again? West Coast or East?

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Wannagrip

I outlined his training per MILO in this post and one or two others. Most do warmup. Some don't. He did not at first. One could only guess he got injured and then now warms up. Or, he found he did better with a small warmup? More conjecture on my part.

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"Are you reading my posts? That's what I am saying. Assuming it does NOT smoke him out then doing a 3 close is about absolutely worthless at that strength level. It doesn't make sense so that's why I asked the question in the first place. "

Again, I seriously doubt one needs to work near one's "1RM" all the time for gains in

strength. Perhaps that submaximal training is the key to Nathan and his brothers' success with the grippers & other grip work. It is all pure speculation; we do not know.

And saying it is "worthless" is a tad too rich without having a clue why he does it in the first place. Hell, maybe he wants to finish his workout by working on his gripper technique with a gripper that is near his max. Maybe he just wants to finish his workout by doing an all out overcrush on a gripper that is somewhat near his max. Maybe... you see where this is going?

"I am curious as to the "why". Also, again, I am curious as to why he does a warmup now and didn't before. Did he injure himself? Why cut back on the grippers? Was he not recovering? Did he go down in strength? Isn't anyone curious about some of this stuff? I guess I am the only one?"

Sure I'm interested in his training methods. Then again I'm interested in everyone's training methods; no matter how long they've been training. Probably mostly because I like to come up with my own routines and am always interested in what other people come up with.

As to the warm ups.... perhaps over time he just realized that warming up was a smart thing to do. Perhaps he got injured, perhaps he was starting to get pain in his knuckles or his elbow, or perhaps he just noticed improved performance or perhaps........

For mobster:

I'm not sure what you disagree with since you didn't quote anything.

Assuming you got the image that I'm against working out everyday, I have to tell you that you got the wrong image. I'm most certainly not against it. I've been doing it with the grippers for almost a year now (ever since I got them) and for certain lifts (not grip related) as long as I've had a barbell & plates (= about three years)

As for the CNS thing, I never said daily gripper training (as in training close to one's "1RM") would be too much for ones CNS. What I tried to get across is that I don't believe it is *necessary* to do it all the time and, perhaps, it can be detrimental.

As for the 6-7 1RM front squats, I think I heard about a funny study of some olympic WL team that did something very close to this. I believe their purpose was to prove that said training was too much. The funny result was that their guys actually got stronger.

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simonevincenzi

My personal experience says you have always to work near your 1RM with gripper to obtain improvements, only with strapholds you can work at for example 80% of your 1RM but I think it's not so true due to grippers nature.

I think a bit of warm-up in every activity is essential, just to increase blood circulation in thee area and to wake your CNS up.

Bulgarian weightlifting team works every day near 1RM but it woul be quite dangerous doing blood analysis on these athletes.

Anyone knows for sure why the Holle brothers are no more on the GripBoard? I'm very curious.

Simone

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mobsterone

I'm gonna write to Nathan today/tomorrow. I have no guarantee he'll reply of course but would like suggestions as to questions us grip nuts can put before him.

....

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Wannagrip
I'm gonna write to Nathan today/tomorrow. I have no guarantee he'll reply of course but would like suggestions as to questions us grip nuts can put before him.

....

What method of progression did he use?

Or did he just start at parallel handles on the 4 or some distance and it just got reduced by 1/64 of an inch EVERY day. :laugh

How did he really train?

Why no warmups before and now a warmup?

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Matt Van Weele

Whats wrong with the way he trained? Is anyone Nathan? Then how would anyone know what works for him. People can't seem to get it that different things work for different people. Why doesn't someone call him and ask what he did. I trained the same way he did #3 only not as consistent or structured. I used no form of progression and one day the last 1/4 went down.

Edited by mattvanweele
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Wannagrip
That's why I'm I'm writing (cos I don't have his number) and even if it only works for him we can still learn.

Exactly.

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