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Jaydo12345

Who had a stronger grip? Tommy heslep or joe Kinney?

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Jaydo12345
6 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

What was the purpose of this question?

Curiosity... I was curious to see what other people thought about it.

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jchapman

You are new to grip but know about Heslep and Kinney?

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Jaydo12345
4 minutes ago, jchapman said:

You are new to grip but know about Heslep and Kinney?

Yes... let me explain how I got into grip. My mom and I were cleaning out our attic when I found one of my dads old grippers that was rated at 200 lbs and I thought to myself “Can someone really close this with one hand?” I then looked up 200 lb gripper or something like that and came across Captains Of Crush and the saw the #4 that was rated at 365 and I looked up if anybody had ever closed it and I saw a list of names. Is it really that hard to believe?

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jchapman
7 minutes ago, Jaydo12345 said:

Yes... let me explain how I got into grip. My mom and I were cleaning out our attic when I found one of my dads old grippers that was rated at 200 lbs and I thought to myself “Can someone really close this with one hand?” I then looked up 200 lb gripper or something like that and came across Captains Of Crush and the saw the #4 that was rated at 365 and I looked up if anybody had ever closed it and I saw a list of names. Is it really that hard to believe?

yep

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Jaydo12345
50 minutes ago, jchapman said:

yep

Lol ok

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climber511

There's a fairy typical sequence of events when new people get on the GripBoard - and the questions are fairly typical also.  Joe Kinney is almost always one of them - and you need to understand that his #4 close has been discussed to death and is considered highly suspect by many here on the GripBoard.  Complex questions are not easily handled by the search function either so new people end up looking like trolls weather they are or not.  Don't get all excited - but explain where you are coming from and tell people how new you are.  Old timers like helping but some topics really get people fired up.

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FrankSobotka
14 hours ago, Jaydo12345 said:

I’ve never met you in my life

My comment only applied if you were the guy people suspected you were. If not, carry on. 

And you’re right, we have never met. Nor did I say we did.  

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Jaydo12345
4 minutes ago, FrankSobotka said:

My comment only applied if you were the guy people suspected you were. If not, carry on. 

And you’re right, we have never met. Nor did I say we did.  

Ok that clears things up

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slazbob

I still don’t know why the Kinney close has to be considered “suspect.” I guess the old 45’s Brian Shaw pinched with ease is suspect? I know we all know who that man is! But, it is funny when someone gets better than most (or, all in this situation), in a small world ...they can’t possibly imagine someone much higher than them?and all the hard work they put in they can’t be that far behind- must be a cheater. 🙄

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KapMan
39 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I still don’t know why the Kinney close has to be considered “suspect.” I guess the old 45’s Brian Shaw pinched with ease is suspect? I know we all know who that man is! But, it is funny when someone gets better than most (or, all in this situation), in a small world ...they can’t possibly imagine someone much higher than them?and all the hard work they put in they can’t be that far behind- must be a cheater. 🙄

Do a board search. This topic is a vigorously beaten dead horse. 

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Shal9097
14 hours ago, John McCarter said:

They are not the same person. They are from different parts of the world.

Good point. It would be nearly impossible for an internet troll to put a different city in the info page when creating their profile 

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Jaydo12345

I’m seriously not a troll I’m just new and idk much about grip. I didn’t really know that this was a sore subject.

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, slazbob said:

I still don’t know why the Kinney close has to be considered “suspect.” I guess the old 45’s Brian Shaw pinched with ease is suspect? I know we all know who that man is! But, it is funny when someone gets better than most (or, all in this situation), in a small world ...they can’t possibly imagine someone much higher than them?and all the hard work they put in they can’t be that far behind- must be a cheater. 🙄

One man has done amazing grip feats live in front of dozens of people and now in front of a million or two on tv.  He's also won the WSM 4 times.

The only strength feat the other person has done in front of anyone outside his immediate family is to close a #2.  

Oh and Jesus = MC^2 on tren

That should end this.

😀

Edited by Mike Rinderle
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Climber028
47 minutes ago, Jaydo12345 said:

I’m seriously not a troll I’m just new and idk much about grip. I didn’t really know that this was a sore subject.

It's not directed at you, this is just a sore subject. You're story isn't unbelievable it's just very uncommon for new people to know about the grip guys who long ago left the sport. 

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John McCarter
11 hours ago, Shal9097 said:

Good point. It would be nearly impossible for an internet troll to put a different city in the info page when creating their profile 

Another thing that helps is tracking the I.P. address to find where they are located and that's the reason I know they are not the same individual. 

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Jedd Johnson

If you go by the claims the people made, Joe Kinney had a stronger grip.  But Tommy Heslep actually put up videos, came to competitions, and proved himself in public, so lots more respect for him.

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Alawadhi
On 7/19/2019 at 12:33 AM, slazbob said:

I still don’t know why the Kinney close has to be considered “suspect.” I guess the old 45’s Brian Shaw pinched with ease is suspect? I know we all know who that man is! But, it is funny when someone gets better than most (or, all in this situation), in a small world ...they can’t possibly imagine someone much higher than them?and all the hard work they put in they can’t be that far behind- must be a cheater. 🙄

Because the stronger people in general see him as fake. The not so strong see him as a hero. So Chris took the suspect thing here. Like what @Mike Rinderle said, Kinney only closed a #2 and is claiming to be world strongest man by all his claims. 100 pounds TTK, 200KG squats for 60 reps, close a #4 like closing a #1 from a actual #4 closer. The list is endless. Brian Shaw on the other hand is 4 times World Strongest Man. Trains grip. The only one in the world to lift half of 150 pounds york blob. Lifted the blobzilla from the more round part. The list is endless. Oh yeah, my friend Razaq tested some one his grip last year in Dubai. No video's though. But this year I'll make sure to as him to take video's. Al this Brian has done in front of Millions, TV, clips, et cetera.

On 7/19/2019 at 2:28 AM, Mike Rinderle said:

One man has done amazing grip feats live in front of dozens of people and now in front of a million or two on tv.  He's also won the WSM 4 times.

The only strength feat the other person has done in front of anyone outside his immediate family is to close a #2.  

Oh and Jesus = MC^2 on tren

That should end this.

😀

THIS^

On 7/19/2019 at 1:33 PM, John McCarter said:

Another thing that helps is tracking the I.P. address to find where they are located and that's the reason I know they are not the same individual. 

I am sure it can be masked. VPN or any other application. Not saying our guy here is doing it, but in general can't it be masked?

On 7/19/2019 at 6:58 PM, Jedd Johnson said:

If you go by the claims the people made, Joe Kinney had a stronger grip.  But Tommy Heslep actually put up videos, came to competitions, and proved himself in public, so lots more respect for him.

Claims means nothing. Jedd hit it on the spot. Heslep actually put up real videos, competed and won few. Went to people and proved himself.

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slazbob

I was just wondering...because JK is officially certified by Iron Mind. For a new person to grip,  who comes on here and seeing a few obscure members officially marking Joe’s close as fake is idiotic. 

Having an opinion is one thing, but Joe did it right by Iron Mind. 

The standard of proof is different now, I get that...But it’s a little overboard around here for a select few. 

It reminds me of the movie Tommy Boy; some around here just have to stick their head up the cows ass to make sure they’re getting a real T-bone steak; I’d rather take the butchers word for it. 

 

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Alawadhi
31 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I was just wondering...because JK is officially certified by Iron Mind. For a new person to grip,  who comes on here and seeing a few obscure members officially marking Joe’s close as fake is idiotic. 

Having an opinion is one thing, but Joe did it right by Iron Mind. 

The standard of proof is different now, I get that...But it’s a little overboard around here for a select few. 

It reminds me of the movie Tommy Boy; some around here just have to stick their head up the cows ass to make sure they’re getting a real T-bone steak; I’d rather take the butchers word for it. 

 

Yep exactly. You are taking a word of someone who only closed a CoC #2 over world strongest men. Case closed.

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, slazbob said:

I was just wondering...because JK is officially certified by Iron Mind. For a new person to grip,  who comes on here and seeing a few obscure members officially marking Joe’s close as fake is idiotic. 

Having an opinion is one thing, but Joe did it right by Iron Mind. 

The standard of proof is different now, I get that...But it’s a little overboard around here for a select few. 

It reminds me of the movie Tommy Boy; some around here just have to stick their head up the cows ass to make sure they’re getting a real T-bone steak; I’d rather take the butchers word for it. 

 

Not sure you have the whole story.  Maybe @Roark would be willing to fill in the details since he was involved.

There was a concerted effort at the time to get Joe K to do it in front of someone but he wouldn't / couldn't.  Then Joe R and Ironmind tried everything to get him to have it rated.  Suddenly he had "lost" the gripper.

So yes, he certed by the loose rules of the time, but there has been a shadow over it from day 1.  It's the main reason why the cert rules were created.  They couldn't  deny Joe, because he didn't break the rules, but they did everything possible to keep it from happening again.  Everybody suspected it was squirrely from day 1.  This isn't something that happened later on.

Edited by Mike Rinderle
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Climber028
1 hour ago, slazbob said:

I was just wondering...because JK is officially certified by Iron Mind. For a new person to grip,  who comes on here and seeing a few obscure members officially marking Joe’s close as fake is idiotic. 

Having an opinion is one thing, but Joe did it right by Iron Mind. 

The standard of proof is different now, I get that...But it’s a little overboard around here for a select few. 

It reminds me of the movie Tommy Boy; some around here just have to stick their head up the cows ass to make sure they’re getting a real T-bone steak; I’d rather take the butchers word for it. 

 

The standard of proof is higher because what he did is miles ahead of anybody else. If somebody tells me they close a 3 I don't need a video because enough people can do it that I don't need to perform an investigation. Just like if someone says they finally benched 2 plates. Sure it's possible to lie but unlikely for average feats. Tell me you did something that no human has ever done, then yea I'm gonna need a video, and some expert witnesses, and reasonable certainty that no funny business is happening. I think some people are too nice and honest to spend time thinking about how to cheat events, but there are many many ways to cheat closing grippers, and a lot would not be visible in a video. 

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slazbob

You have to look at proof on both sides at some point. If Joe wanted to fool everyone with a fake, he went through a lot ; training ideas; building equipment, etc. 

the other side, has 0 proof of a hoax; just because Joe didn’t want to meet up with someone means nothing to me...I wouldn’t want to either. 

How far do you want someone to go to prove something to the critics? Do you have private investigators follow your gal making sure she’s faithful? Or do you take her word for it because of the work she has put into the relationship? 

I think this place just has something up its arse about Joe no matter what. Which is sad because Joe’s story is much more exciting than anything I’ve seen in grip(27years). You had one or two jealous guys back then that poisoned your mind’s on this subject; and they did it with conjecture ...not one piece of proof of a hoax; only “he can’t be that strong” which doesn’t say much for those that feel this way...easily controlled. 

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Climber028
50 minutes ago, slazbob said:

You have to look at proof on both sides at some point. If Joe wanted to fool everyone with a fake, he went through a lot ; training ideas; building equipment, etc. 

the other side, has 0 proof of a hoax; just because Joe didn’t want to meet up with someone means nothing to me...I wouldn’t want to either. 

How far do you want someone to go to prove something to the critics? Do you have private investigators follow your gal making sure she’s faithful? Or do you take her word for it because of the work she has put into the relationship? 

I think this place just has something up its arse about Joe no matter what. Which is sad because Joe’s story is much more exciting than anything I’ve seen in grip(27years). You had one or two jealous guys back then that poisoned your mind’s on this subject; and they did it with conjecture ...not one piece of proof of a hoax; only “he can’t be that strong” which doesn’t say much for those that feel this way...easily controlled. 

You can't prove a negative, so no you don't need both sides. I can say that I have a unicorn and you can't provide evidence that I do not. I don't even claim that he did cheat, just that it is possible and something to be considered since the existing evidence is shady at best. I'm completely agnostic on Joe's feat unless further evidence comes forward, or if in the coming years we have anybody that can recreate them, at least that would indicate its definitely possible.

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slazbob
29 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

You can't prove a negative, so no you don't need both sides. I can say that I have a unicorn and you can't provide evidence that I do not. I don't even claim that he did cheat, just that it is possible and something to be considered since the existing evidence is shady at best. I'm completely agnostic on Joe's feat unless further evidence comes forward, or if in the coming years we have anybody that can recreate them, at least that would indicate its definitely possible.

Yes I can , they don’t exist. 

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FrankSobotka
3 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Yes I can , they don’t exist. 

We would all agree with you but that isn’t proof. 

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