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Alawadhi

Who can close a #3 Ronnie Coleman style?

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Hubgeezer
9 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

 

 

Let me ask you one question:  Do you believe the man squatted 440 x 60 every day for months on an empty stomach?  That's what was claimed.  

 

One question, sure. No. It bothered me until I heard that his tree stump squat rack rig had safety bars on them from which he was pulling on. It's a big difference between what we heard and then what it turned out to be.

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Mike Rinderle
11 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Alawadhi lumped Kinney in the "Timmy" category in the last 10 minutes.

If he did fake this, which a fair number of people believe he might have, then he makes Timmy look like a saint by comparison.  Timmy never made a dime off of selling videos.  He was just trying to pull the wool over the eyes of a few innerwebbers.  Fairly harmless compared to interstate commerce fraud.  Of course, he may have been the greatest gripper guy and squatter in the history of mankind; in which case Timmy is no longer a saint and Joe's everything he claims to be.  Which, by the way, I would love to be true.

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Alawadhi
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

Frauds are soo common in pretty much any sport or pursuit. People will lie about anything, just for the smallest piece of recognition. Now, was Kinney a fraud? No no knows for sure. I personally think he was. Heath’s encounter with Joe doesn’t prove a thing. The strength difference between what was claimed by Joe and what was seen by Heath is astronomical. I mean imagine if someone would claim to be able to bench 200 kg and then a few years later were found to have a max of 130 kg. Would you take that as proof that he was able to bench 200 kg just a few years before? 

But like I said, there’s no way of knowing. I’ve always treated Kinney as an unknown who never bothered to prove his claims. He should therefor not be respected for his claims regardless if they really happened or not.

Bro, Kinney's claim is more of doing 300+ KG (661 pounds) without enhancement and later can't even do 140KG (300 pounds). What about his squats? Or his Inch Dumbbell passing around like a toy? Heck look at here Joe Kinney also claimed to squat 650 pounds, raised by non other than timmy.

48 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

@Alawadhi and @David_wigren, I'm very sorry for doing you and everyone on the Gripboard a dis-service.  🤷‍♂️😉 

Joe ate red nails and crapped #4 springs. It's how he got his iron, which helped him make his steroids when he squatted world records every morning.  Fact. My word is bond.

Word is bond. Word is bond.

41 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

Your comments are comical. None of you has the guts to post Heath's thread. That way you can parse it any way you would like. That way you can bank on  your belief that people are too lazy to do their own research.

No, Heath's post does not prove that Joe Kinney closed a Number 4. But some of things he said contradict much of the parroting that has occurred over the years about Joe Kinney. David called him a Fraud two posts ago. Mike R called him that yesterday before he "edited" his comments. Alawadhi lumped Kinney in the "Timmy" category in the last 10 minutes.

This is truly funny stuff guys!

 

Mike. Brother, you are my elder. But I am really surprised you believe Joe Kinney claim. As for his meeting with Heath. Here it is. I didn't post it because I remember it well and I told you the facts from what I remember. I will also quote it here:-

" After talking with Joe several times, we decided to meet. It was his idea actually. My schedule wouldn't allow me to drive all the way to him, so he offered to meet me half way. I loaded up, and took off. When he arrived we shook hands, sort of looking for weaknesses I guess, and started talking. I had an assortment of grippers with me, when I dumped them out he was a kid in a candy store. Squeeze, close, talk, squeeze, close, talk. He brought his #4 for me to see. Someone made the remark about how low the handles were mounted, and about how it couldn't be that hard, bull****! It was a monster. I mean, monster. I checked the thing out, and looked to the inner handles, the knurling was somewhat worn, indicating that he had ground it. It is the same gripper in the video, and in the IM catalog. Other than that the gripper was unmarked, untampered, and hard as hell. While he was messing with my grippers, he closed my 2 so hard the handles whacked, very cool. Also, he messed with all my grippers, I asked him, "did you close my #3?" He said, "I don't know, probably not. I'm no where near what I used to be." I thought, hmmm, for a man that is supposed to be so dishonest and secretive, he was truthful about that. I really didn't know if he had or not, I was just curious. I had my picture taken with him, and while standing there shaking hands, he squeezed my hand, not hard just a pop and release of tension. Let me tell you, it hurt! We talked more and more, total time was 4hrs standing in the Toys R Us parking lot, right as we were leaving I showed him my BTR #3. I cut the handle in half all the way up to the center line, this is a pretty hard gripper, I asked him if he thought that was enough cut, etc etc... I also said, "people say this can weaken the spring." "Hmm, I wouldn't think so" and he gives it a playful squeeze, taking it down to right around 1/4", this is closed on my other #3's. He squeezed a lot of grippers, but never turned loose on anything, it was all casual. He said his wrists still give him trouble, but he is going to try and start trainng again. Joe had muscles in hs forearms that I have never seen before, right down from the wrist it looked like raised flower pedals, unreal. He has a HUGE thumb pad, large wrists, and thick fingers, but the muscles in his forearms were unbeliveable. Joe is a very nice, and straight foreward man. He is very intense, even in just casual conversation, reminding me a lot of Bob Bollenbach. I look forward to meeting with Joe again, and shooting the breeze. I had a lot of respect for him, but I gained a whole lot more after those 4hrs of talking. The man is the real deal IMO, and I have nothing but respect for the man. I would like to thank him for meeting me, and as I said I really look forward to meeting him again.

That concludes the longest post I have ever made......."

The only fact I missed was Joe Kinney best gripper close was a CoC #2. Sorry for missing that out. But this will cause more harm than good perhaps?

28 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

I would give you a proper response but my fingers are bent and I’m bleeding from my fingernails.

Lol from heavy negatives? 

23 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Yea, I thought fraud was a lil harsh.  So I deleted that right after I posted it.  

I'm not searching for a 15 yo thread. If you want it posted, post it.

Let me ask you one question:  Do you believe the man squatted 440 x 60 every day for months on an empty stomach?  That's what was claimed.  

Also, I know you keyboard warriors are tough guys, but you might want to tone it down a lil.  You've now done two things on here that would get the piss slapped out of you if you said them to me face to face.  You called me a liar first, and now a coward.  Both undeserved I believe. 

Apparently I was 100% correct that Joe didn't close the #3, Joe was a nice guy, and Heath didn't say he was sure Joe could close the #4.  If any of those are untrue, as stated above, I will apologize.  Although none of those things, if I was wrong, means Joe closed a legit #4.  Also, I have no problem with someone posting his write-up.  If I am wrong about something, I'm always the 1st to admit it.

Anyway, I would just suggest you think before you type in the future.  I'm fairly easy going, but there are some crazy guys out there that would buy a plane ticket if called a coward or liar.  In fact, I heard the spike bender once threatened to do that to Pat or someone once.  😂 

I know Joe is a hero to all the IM fanboys.  I get it.  But unless you truly believe that Joe did those squats, which no other human on earth could do, then how can you believe his #4 claim?  Saying that on video was what changed my mind on good ol Joe.

All he had to do was close it once... just once... in front of someone who was familiar with grippers.  Just once.

As far as facts. Joe never even closed a #3. Case closed.

As far as Gazza. Yes when Pat finally accepted his challenge, gazza (AKA Gary Hunt) vanished.

8 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

One question, sure. No. It bothered me until I heard that his tree stump squat rack rig had safety bars on them from which he was pulling on. It's a big difference between what we heard and then what it turned out to be.

When we love someone so much or look up to so much, he will find anything to prove his innocence.

7 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

If he did fake this, which a fair number of people believe he might have, then he makes Timmy look like a saint by comparison.  Timmy never made a dime off of selling videos.  He was just trying to pull the wool over the eyes of a few innerwebbers.  Fairly harmless compared to interstate commerce fraud.  Of course, he may have been the greatest gripper guy and squatter in the history of mankind; in which case Timmy is no longer a saint and Joe's everything he claims to be.  Which, by the way, I would love to be true.

Not true. I love to know that I am the strongest man who walked earth. Hmmm dreaming? Perhaps in Joe Kinney's dream. Finally, Joe Kinney didn't even close a CoC #3. Case closed. Back to Ronnie Coleman set.

Edited by Alawadhi
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Mike Rinderle
3 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

One question, sure. No. It bothered me until I heard that his tree stump squat rack rig had safety bars on them from which he was pulling on. It's a big difference between what we heard and then what it turned out to be.

Fair enough.  However, even with the Hatfield set up, that's still over 2.5 X bodyweight for a set of 60.  Every single day, first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach, for months, natty.  I personally know a lot of very strong squatters.  I once discussed this claimed feat with a friend of mine who was a WSM finalist.  He was definitely not natty.  His response... a chuckle.  He said it would kill him and he weighed 300 lbs.  Hatfield set up or no hatfield set up, 440 x 60 every day for months would be the greatest strength feat in the history of the world.

Now, if he misjudged the weight by a factor of 2.5 or 3 and the thing only weighed 170 or so... then maybe.  But how much energy does that leave for his intense gripper training?  The squats alone would run him into the ground.

I've never heard of anyone doing a single 60 rep set of Hatfield squats with anywhere near that weight.

Just food for thought.

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Hubgeezer
Posted (edited)

Alawahi, thank you for posting the thread, as well as quoting from Heath.

Look at these words of Heath:

more and more, total time was 4hrs standing in the Toys R Us parking lot, right as we were leaving I showed him my BTR #3. I cut the handle in half all the way up to the center line, this is a pretty hard gripper, I asked him if he thought that was enough cut, etc etc... I also said, "people say this can weaken the spring." "Hmm, I wouldn't think so" and he gives it a playful squeeze, taking it down to right around 1/4", this is closed on my other #3's. He squeezed a lot of grippers, but never turned loose on anything, it was all casual.

End Quote:

Does that prove he closed the Number 4? Absolutely not. But what he did, in a "casual" manner, years after he stopped training, with detailed descriptions by Heath, convinced me that a Number 3 was awfully easy for him. Heath calling him "the real deal" certainly are not the words you would use to describe a fraud. Heath stated that the Number 4 he had with him was the same Number 4 in the video and the IM catalog. Urban Legend has it that his video gripper was cooked. Was it uncooked when Heath saw it, which he described as a "monster, I mean monster"?

Not believing Joe Kinney's Number 4 certification is one thing. But the repetitive and hateful nature of the drek that has been slung around for years is just plain wrong.

Edited by Hubgeezer

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Mike Rinderle

Thanks for posting it Alawadhi.  That's how I remembered it.  And I'm fairly certain that I didn't misrepresent anything now that I've seen it.  Joe didn't close the #3, he was a good guy, as for him closing the #4 - Heath didn't comment.  

So Joe has never closed anything harder than a #2 in front of a knowledgeable grip guy.  Case closed.

Back to Ronnie.

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David_wigren

In addition, this level of strength was achieved within just 1-2 years of training, if I’m not mistaken. If this was the case, then Kinney was most likely not even close to his potential level of strength.

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Joseph Sullivan
3 minutes ago, David_wigren said:

In addition, this level of strength was achieved within just 1-2 years of training, if I’m not mistaken. If this was the case, then Kinney was most likely not even close to his potential level of strength.

He still be rocking them NEWBIE GAINS!

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Jedd Johnson
6 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Alawahi, thank you for posting the thread, as well as quoting from Heath.

Look at these words of Heath:

more and more, total time was 4hrs standing in the Toys R Us parking lot, right as we were leaving I showed him my BTR #3. I cut the handle in half all the way up to the center line, this is a pretty hard gripper, I asked him if he thought that was enough cut, etc etc... I also said, "people say this can weaken the spring." "Hmm, I wouldn't think so" and he gives it a playful squeeze, taking it down to right around 1/4", this is closed on my other #3's. He squeezed a lot of grippers, but never turned loose on anything, it was all casual.

End Quote:

Does that prove he closed the Number 4? Absolutely not. But what he did, in a "casual" manner, years after he stopped training, with detailed descriptions by Heath, convinced me that a Number 3 was awfully easy for him. Heath calling him "the real deal" certainly are not the words you would use to describe a fraud. Heath stated that the Number 4 he had with him was the same Number 4 in the video and the IM catalog. Urban Legend has it that his video gripper was cooked. Was it uncooked when Heath saw it, which he described as a "monster, I mean monster"?

Not believing Joe Kinney's Number 4 certification is one thing. But the repetitive and hateful nature of the drek that has been slung around for years is just plain wrong.

There is no way that Heath could have known that it was the same #4 as in the video. It could have been a Gripper that looked the same, but my bet is that Joe told Heath that it was the same gripper as in the video, and Heath repeated that. And it was probably a legit #4 gripper that Heath was shown.

There's just no way he could know for certain that it was the same Gripper. I'm sorry.

Watch the handles of the Gripper in the Kinney video. They do not move right as they come together, in my opinion, and the video fades to black before the gripper opens. Who has or used a fade-to-black effect on a personal video camera? And why wild anyone taint video proof footage of a portion of a #4 close? It doesn't make sense.

And why wasn't the dumpster spring gripper brought up in the first video.  It's plain as day it was brought up so the footage saying, "there was another too I used (paraphrased) could be included in the promo teaser video, to sell copies of the video, and as a way to sell dumpster spring grippers later on.

@Alawadhi - was the hand to hand Inch Dumbbell  statement something you added in there for color, or did Kinney actually claim that?

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Mike Rinderle
9 minutes ago, Jedd Johnson said:

There is no way that Heath could have known that it was the same #4 as in the video. It could have been a Gripper that looked the same, but my bet is that Joe told Heath that it was the same gripper as in the video, and Heath repeated that. And it was probably a legit #4 gripper that Heath was shown.

There's just no way he could know for certain that it was the same Gripper. I'm sorry.

This.  Might even have been the same handles.  Switching springs on a gripper isn't a big deal for a mechanical guy like Joe.  Whatever it was, no way to be sure.

BTW, nobody has pointed out in the pic of Joe closing the dumpster spring, he is obviously posting the long end on his thigh.  As a guy who has bent quite a bit of steel, I can tell you that would make this "feat" way easier.  It pretty much makes it a triceps exercise.

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Hubgeezer
1 hour ago, Jedd Johnson said:

 

@Alawadhi - was the hand to hand Inch Dumbbell  statement something you added in there for color, or did Kinney actually claim that?

I can answer that for you. Neither. It's long stated fake news that he was joking about. He didn't make it up and Kinney never said it.

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Bearcat 74

Jedd,

Joe told me on more than one occasion he could pass the Inch from hand to hand.  The day we met I bought an Inch DB from him.   He talked about it some and said he used to be able to pass it hand to hand.  Having fooled with an Inch some the idea of hand to hand back and forth would require excellent strength.  

 

 

I messed with it some and eventually sold it to Sean Dockery when he passed through one summer.  I showed him what I payed for it and if Doc was interested he could have it for the same price.  I think it was $250, but it has been a long time.  

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slazbob

DA30F9A7-9B3A-40CB-82BD-E0892C87C6D6.thumb.png.0fafd1ebfd5dcff5b7ffc225abdfaaaa.pngthis set up probably had him using his whole body. Even if the weight was 440lbs ...which, even I could do for 5 reps on a smith machine 5 years ago...and I’m a mere mortal- definitely took the stress off the legs more so than not pulling up. He did come back and mentioned that he would do the 60 throughout the day; which firstly he said it like he did it consecutively. 

There is a bunch of pictures of him close with the no.4 but not finishing it. in the updated video with John W., there was a couple pictures of Joe closing the no.3 with two fingers.  It’s interesting to me that if you put that much time into pulling springs out of 3’s and 4’s for pictures, and make all this equipment, and training ideas, etc...you would be that intent to pull this fraud off. 

We all know that you hit a wall with training, and the next thing you know it’s 6 months since you touched a gripper. In Joe’s case, he said he was in too much pain to train anymore...it was years before his meeting with Heath. To still bring a cut no.3 down to a 1/4” with no warmup to get things going speaks a lot to me. 

To him it seemed: I did it, and I’m done. All of us would be running around closing it for everyone! Guess he wasn’t that type...just wanted to prove Ironmind wrong, I guess. But the proof wasn’t good enough for most. 

The closing video to me ....put aside any hoax stuff, looks like he’s holding back, then ramps it closed. To most it looks like the gripper was fake. Then I looked how he was demonstrating closes with, I’m assuming a no.2 and he didn’t have the same type of motion. It didn’t have the speed of the no.4 close in my eyes. Maybe it was the crappy video. I still believe he did it. And certainly we all have an opinion, but you can’t prove he didn’t do it and that’s  much more powerful than saying he was a fraud- prove that!

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Hubgeezer
4 hours ago, Bearcat 74 said:

Jedd,

Joe told me on more than one occasion he could pass the Inch from hand to hand.  The day we met I bought an Inch DB from him.   He talked about it some and said he used to be able to pass it hand to hand.  Having fooled with an Inch some the idea of hand to hand back and forth would require excellent strength.  

 

 

I messed with it some and eventually sold it to Sean Dockery when he passed through one summer.  I showed him what I payed for it and if Doc was interested he could have it for the same price.  I think it was $250, but it has been a long time.  

I stand corrected. While I was sleeping, Heath posted this, and Joe Kinney texted me.  We exchange texts from time to time, mostly personal stuff, his encouraging me to keep pursuing No. 3 Certification. I never ask him about what he could or could not do. He has read this thread, and referred me to the 2011 IM Forum Joe Kinney is a Beast thread as to his squatting, and mentioning some Mike Rinderle posts on it. 

Other than my wife, i have never mentioned my texting with JK. I didn’t think he had ever touched an Inch. I was wrong.

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David_wigren

The fact that someone is passionate about something does not make the person less likely to be a fraud. Most frauds in any endeavor are done by people who are obsessed about the topic. And often those frauds will have well meaning friends that will back them up.

Is Joe a fraud? I personally think so but I can’t know. The truth is that no one knows. Joe unfortunately never cared to provide any proper evidence for his extraordinary claims. Therefore he should be considered an unknown. Just like many others in the strength community, like Brad Castleberry or that skinny 130 lbs fitness model who was repping out 500 lbs squats with strict form and doing wall sits with over 1000 lbs. Are they frauds as well? I personally think so, but I can’t know for sure.

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

I stand corrected. While I was sleeping, Heath posted this, and Joe Kinney texted me.  We exchange texts from time to time, mostly personal stuff, his encouraging me to keep pursuing No. 3 Certification. I never ask him about what he could or could not do. He has read this thread, and referred me to the 2011 IM Forum Joe Kinney is a Beast thread as to his squatting, and mentioning some Mike Rinderle posts on it. 

Other than my wife, i have never mentioned my texting with JK. I didn’t think he had ever touched an Inch. I was wrong.

You have done a disservice to the fine men and women on this board.  J/K 😃

At our age the memory is more like a 1960s Xerox copy than a 15 megapixel HD photo. 😉 

So Joe just happened to text you and happened to bring up my posts from 8 years ago?  Lol.  

Edited by Mike Rinderle

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Mike Rinderle

I'm with Wiggy on this.  I can't know the truth.  But I do know that exceptional claims require exceptional proof.  He has claimed 3 feats that would make him the best gripper guy in history by a factor of 2, the best endurance squatter of all time, and now the best thick handled dumbbell lifter of all time. 

If someone claimed they could high jump 5 meters or run a 3 minute mile, it's not our job to prove they can't.  It's their job to offer up some convincing proof that they could.  The easiest way would be to do it in front of someone objective.  If I worked for a world record until I bled and finally acheived it, I would make sure I documented the heck out of it and multiple people involved in that pursuit saw me do it.  But that's just me.

I've heard the rebuttal that Joe was a very private man and that's why he didn't.  Well, he wasn't too private to sell 2 different videos to the general public about the "feat."  

I personally don't believe a dark, grainy, highly edited video, or saying my word is bond, is enough to prove you were way better than anyone before or since.  If it's enough for you, then cool.  It's a great story and I would love for it to be true as well.  But I need some sort of actual proof.  

 

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Joseph Sullivan
16 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

I'm with Wiggy on this.  I can't know the truth.  But I do know that exceptional claims require exceptional proof.  He has claimed 3 feats that would make him the best gripper guy in history by a factor of 2, the best endurance squatter of all time, and now the best thick handled dumbbell lifter of all time. 

If someone claimed they could high jump 5 meters or run a 3 minute mile, it's not our job to prove they can't.  It's their job to offer up some convincing proof that they could.  The easiest way would be to do it in front of someone objective.  If I worked for a world record until I bled and finally acheived it, I would make sure I documented the heck out of it and multiple people involved in that pursuit saw me do it.  But that's just me.

I've heard the rebuttal that Joe was a very private man and that's why he didn't.  Well, he wasn't too private to sell 2 different videos to the general public about the "feat."  

I personally don't believe a dark, grainy, highly edited video, or saying my word is bond, is enough to prove you were way better than anyone before or since.  If it's enough for you, then cool.  It's a great story and I would love for it to be true as well.  But I need some sort of actual proof.  

 

You mean you don’t trust those guys in Asia that call saying they are the IRS and you owe them 10 grand or the sheriff is coming to arrest you if you don’t pay, and to pay in ITunes and wal mart gift cards? Come on Rindo. What more proof do they need then their word???

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Mike Rinderle
4 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

You mean you don’t trust those guys in Asia that call saying they are the IRS and you owe them 10 grand or the sheriff is coming to arrest you if you don’t pay, and to pay in ITunes and wal mart gift cards? Come on Rindo. What more proof do they need then their word???

Call me old fashioned. 

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Mike Rinderle
9 hours ago, slazbob said:

To him it seemed: I did it, and I’m done. All of us would be running around closing it for everyone! Guess he wasn’t that type...just wanted to prove Ironmind wrong, I guess. But the proof wasn’t good enough for most.

That explanation might work except he wasn't done.  He went on to make a bunch of money selling two different videos and, I believe, selling a grip machine (or licensing his name to a GM).   Who knows what his motivation was to do it, but I don't think you can discount the fact that the guy definitely profited off it.   

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Mike Rinderle

@Hubgeezer

As far as I have been able to find, only Adam, Tanner, Jedd, and Andrew D. have accomplished a hand to hand toss of an Inch.  There may be a few more, but those were the only ones I could find.  I don't believe anyone has ever accomplished a hand to hand and back again even once.  Do you believe that Joe was so much better at the Inch dumbbell than these 4 guys that he could just toss it back and forth from hand to hand?  That would be comparable to saying he could bench 1000 lbs raw if he was that much better than some of the best in the game.

If you believe it, cool.

If not, why would you believe any of his other claims? 

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Hubgeezer
3 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

 

So Joe just happened to text you and happened to bring up my posts from 8 years ago?  Lol.  

Yes. I don’t know why he was pointing out difference between the 2011 Rinderle versus the 2019 Rinderle. 

By the way, do you think I am making this up, or think I am lying?

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Mike Rinderle
15 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

Yes. I don’t know why he was pointing out difference between the 2011 Rinderle versus the 2019 Rinderle. 

By the way, do you think I am making this up, or think I am lying?

No.  Just a coincidence that he texted you out of the blue when this was going on.  I used to be a big believer and supporter of a certain bender too.  Then found out he was a total fraud.  

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Alawadhi
20 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Fair enough.  However, even with the Hatfield set up, that's still over 2.5 X bodyweight for a set of 60.  Every single day, first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach, for months, natty.  I personally know a lot of very strong squatters.  I once discussed this claimed feat with a friend of mine who was a WSM finalist.  He was definitely not natty.  His response... a chuckle.  He said it would kill him and he weighed 300 lbs.  Hatfield set up or no hatfield set up, 440 x 60 every day for months would be the greatest strength feat in the history of the world.

Now, if he misjudged the weight by a factor of 2.5 or 3 and the thing only weighed 170 or so... then maybe.  But how much energy does that leave for his intense gripper training?  The squats alone would run him into the ground.

I've never heard of anyone doing a single 60 rep set of Hatfield squats with anywhere near that weight.

Just food for thought.

It didn't happen! Case closed........Don't bother explaining.

20 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Alawahi, thank you for posting the thread, as well as quoting from Heath.

Look at these words of Heath:

more and more, total time was 4hrs standing in the Toys R Us parking lot, right as we were leaving I showed him my BTR #3. I cut the handle in half all the way up to the center line, this is a pretty hard gripper, I asked him if he thought that was enough cut, etc etc... I also said, "people say this can weaken the spring." "Hmm, I wouldn't think so" and he gives it a playful squeeze, taking it down to right around 1/4", this is closed on my other #3's. He squeezed a lot of grippers, but never turned loose on anything, it was all casual.

End Quote:

Does that prove he closed the Number 4? Absolutely not. But what he did, in a "casual" manner, years after he stopped training, with detailed descriptions by Heath, convinced me that a Number 3 was awfully easy for him. Heath calling him "the real deal" certainly are not the words you would use to describe a fraud. Heath stated that the Number 4 he had with him was the same Number 4 in the video and the IM catalog. Urban Legend has it that his video gripper was cooked. Was it uncooked when Heath saw it, which he described as a "monster, I mean monster"?

Not believing Joe Kinney's Number 4 certification is one thing. But the repetitive and hateful nature of the drek that has been slung around for years is just plain wrong.

You are welcome sir. This proved Mr. Kinney closed a #2 and showed Heath a #4. That's it. I can show anyone my paperweight grippers which will make a #4 shiver. Does it mean it is the same one I closed (This is an assumption only!!! I never claimed to close anything above BB Elite) is I had faked one? Of course not.

20 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Thanks for posting it Alawadhi.  That's how I remembered it.  And I'm fairly certain that I didn't misrepresent anything now that I've seen it.  Joe didn't close the #3, he was a good guy, as for him closing the #4 - Heath didn't comment.  

So Joe has never closed anything harder than a #2 in front of a knowledgeable grip guy.  Case closed.

Back to Ronnie.

Welcome! Yep. Back to Ronnie. Interestingly I remember a topic way back in 2005 where Ronnie attempted a #3 also. Got it to same near closing 3/8. I searched it and found it. It is here. It is good to be an old member you can remember things others are hiding.

19 hours ago, David_wigren said:

In addition, this level of strength was achieved within just 1-2 years of training, if I’m not mistaken. If this was the case, then Kinney was most likely not even close to his potential level of strength.

I totally over looked this. Very true!

14 hours ago, Jedd Johnson said:

@Alawadhi - was the hand to hand Inch Dumbbell  statement something you added in there for color, or did Kinney actually claim that? 

@Jedd Johnson I wish I can add in this talk just for the colors to laugh. But the dude did say that and there are many topics I remember from back then. Here is one by Joe Roark here last post on the first page. Another one by stratavarious_connection here one the last post. Heath spoke to him few times he can clarify if he said that. I didn't find the one where he claimed he did it for tens of reps. What can I add for the colors? He already said more than I can add except for running a marathon on a record scale while holding the inch in one hand and holding the #4 shut in the other hand.

12 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

I can answer that for you. Neither. It's long stated fake news that he was joking about. He didn't make it up and Kinney never said it.

No sir read what did I write to Jedd.

11 hours ago, Bearcat 74 said:

Jedd,

Joe told me on more than one occasion he could pass the Inch from hand to hand.  The day we met I bought an Inch DB from him.   He talked about it some and said he used to be able to pass it hand to hand.  Having fooled with an Inch some the idea of hand to hand back and forth would require excellent strength.  

 

 

I messed with it some and eventually sold it to Sean Dockery when he passed through one summer.  I showed him what I payed for it and if Doc was interested he could have it for the same price.  I think it was $250, but it has been a long time.  

So Joe again said this and that without doing it. Is it the Inch which came from Staver?

11 hours ago, slazbob said:

DA30F9A7-9B3A-40CB-82BD-E0892C87C6D6.thumb.png.0fafd1ebfd5dcff5b7ffc225abdfaaaa.pngthis set up probably had him using his whole body. Even if the weight was 440lbs ...which, even I could do for 5 reps on a smith machine 5 years ago...and I’m a mere mortal- definitely took the stress off the legs more so than not pulling up. He did come back and mentioned that he would do the 60 throughout the day; which firstly he said it like he did it consecutively. 

There is a bunch of pictures of him close with the no.4 but not finishing it. in the updated video with John W., there was a couple pictures of Joe closing the no.3 with two fingers.  It’s interesting to me that if you put that much time into pulling springs out of 3’s and 4’s for pictures, and make all this equipment, and training ideas, etc...you would be that intent to pull this fraud off. 

We all know that you hit a wall with training, and the next thing you know it’s 6 months since you touched a gripper. In Joe’s case, he said he was in too much pain to train anymore...it was years before his meeting with Heath. To still bring a cut no.3 down to a 1/4” with no warmup to get things going speaks a lot to me. 

To him it seemed: I did it, and I’m done. All of us would be running around closing it for everyone! Guess he wasn’t that type...just wanted to prove Ironmind wrong, I guess. But the proof wasn’t good enough for most. 

The closing video to me ....put aside any hoax stuff, looks like he’s holding back, then ramps it closed. To most it looks like the gripper was fake. Then I looked how he was demonstrating closes with, I’m assuming a no.2 and he didn’t have the same type of motion. It didn’t have the speed of the no.4 close in my eyes. Maybe it was the crappy video. I still believe he did it. And certainly we all have an opinion, but you can’t prove he didn’t do it and that’s  much more powerful than saying he was a fraud- prove that!

Dude look at his legs pleeeaaaaaase for the sake of God. Is this a leg of a man or even a body of a man who can do 200KG for 60 reps EVERYDAY before breakfast. Man I engage with world strongest men and no one is close. What are you talking about??! Oh yeah one more thing, Thomas Inch himself was a fraud and couldn't lift his Inch bell himself.

5 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

I stand corrected. While I was sleeping, Heath posted this, and Joe Kinney texted me.  We exchange texts from time to time, mostly personal stuff, his encouraging me to keep pursuing No. 3 Certification. I never ask him about what he could or could not do. He has read this thread, and referred me to the 2011 IM Forum Joe Kinney is a Beast thread as to his squatting, and mentioning some Mike Rinderle posts on it. 

Other than my wife, i have never mentioned my texting with JK. I didn’t think he had ever touched an Inch. I was wrong.

And here we go again. I don't believe the one who posts in IM forum is Joe Kinney himself. He is involved yesss. But he DOES NOT post them. From many sources here and I hope Heath @Bearcat 74 can confirm, Joe had a very bad grammar and spelling back then in his 40's. There are hand written letters by him to confirm it. What made him write like a university English professor all of a sudden? The human brains is a gift from God. We should think.

As for the Inch, how come you didn't know? It was the talk back in the days from 2001 to 2007. But anyway, yeah that is Mr, Kinney's claim.

4 hours ago, David_wigren said:

The fact that someone is passionate about something does not make the person less likely to be a fraud. Most frauds in any endeavor are done by people who are obsessed about the topic. And often those frauds will have well meaning friends that will back them up.

Is Joe a fraud? I personally think so but I can’t know. The truth is that no one knows. Joe unfortunately never cared to provide any proper evidence for his extraordinary claims. Therefore he should be considered an unknown. Just like many others in the strength community, like Brad Castleberry or that skinny 130 lbs fitness model who was repping out 500 lbs squats with strict form and doing wall sits with over 1000 lbs. Are they frauds as well? I personally think so, but I can’t know for sure.

I don't think I know. When 200KG men can't replicate half of someone less than half their size then it is fake. This goes to that bender too.

3 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

So Joe just happened to text you and happened to bring up my posts from 8 years ago?  Lol.  

Yep it weird. I don't believe Mike will lie. But that person who claims to be Joe Kinney is obviously a member here too. I once heard a tale (not kidding) that Joe Kinney is Paul Savage. Other's were saying he is timmy. Now that is far-fetched, but I understand where all of this comes from.

3 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

If I worked for a world record until I bled and finally acheived it, I would make sure I documented the heck out of it and multiple people involved in that pursuit saw me do it.  But that's just me.

Under your nails?

2 hours ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

You mean you don’t trust those guys in Asia that call saying they are the IRS and you owe them 10 grand or the sheriff is coming to arrest you if you don’t pay, and to pay in ITunes and wal mart gift cards? Come on Rindo. What more proof do they need then their word???

Word.....is......bond.....trust.....is......the.....key.

1 hour ago, Mike Rinderle said:

@Hubgeezer

As far as I have been able to find, only Adam, Tanner, Jedd, and Andrew D. have accomplished a hand to hand toss of an Inch.  There may be a few more, but those were the only ones I could find.  I don't believe anyone has ever accomplished a hand to hand and back again even once.  Do you believe that Joe was so much better at the Inch dumbbell than these 4 guys that he could just toss it back and forth from hand to hand?  That would be comparable to saying he could bench 1000 lbs raw if he was that much better than some of the best in the game.

If you believe it, cool.

If not, why would you believe any of his other claims? 

Good question.

20 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

No.  Just a coincidence that he texted you out of the blue when this was going on.  I used to be a big believer and supporter of a certain bender too.  Then found out he was a total fraud.  

I was in that boat too. But we all think and try to know the truth.

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the link on the Joe Roark post.  Another interesting post from him in that thread.  So the #4 Joe "certed" on was lost before October of 2001?  He wouldn't get it calibrated? How did he show it to Heath?

Btw, @Roark is the man!

Roark     38

 

"This is an appeal to Joe Kinney, who in fact may be less concerned with his place in the gripper scheme of history than are the rest of us, certainly less than I.

Now that the IGC has been formed, and will be keeping specific records, those records which remain vague will of necessity be grouped together with an asterisk: all uncalibrated grippers, known only by number type, MUSTyield to known quantities. So, whoever closes the first calibrated #4 gripper must top the list, and whoever has closed an uncalibrated gripper must be ranked lower,and remain lower until the proper ranking can be assigned by calibration. Perhaps Mr. Kinney will rise to the top when his #4 is calibrated. Perhaps he will not. We must forever assign him a lower place for his lost #4 which was never calibrated, and will forever remain an unknown specific.

Mr. Kinney deserves notation for being the first person to close a #4, calibrated or not. He will top that list forever, just as Mr. Sorin will on the #3 list, and these comments are in no way intended to disparage Mr.Kinney- in fact the very opposite. I am urging him toclaim his rightful place in this listing. Frankly, since PDA is willing to calibrate the gripper for free, I am puzzled that the matter has not been handled by now.

So, those of you personally acquainted with Mr. Kinney, please chat with him about this, and report back to the board what you discover. If he simply has no interest in the matter, then the asterisk must remain on what will eventually be a lenthening list of calibrated #4 closures.

If that is the case, and the uncertainty remains, then let's hear no moans of justice thwarted. Choices have consequences."

Edited by Mike Rinderle
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