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devinhoo

Napalm's Nightmare Pinch Vs. Saxon Bar

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devinhoo
Posted (edited)

What are people's thoughts on the Napalm's Nightmare with pinch blocks versus the Saxon bar? I haven't competed using a Saxon bar and I've only gotten to lift one a few times, however I have the Napalm's Nightmare with pinch block handles (3"x4" and 2"x5"). I enjoy training with the NN 2HP because it's a smaller, inexpensive, and highly variable piece of equipment. However I know it's not the same thing as the actual Saxon bar.

I've chatted briefly with Dali Zheng and Tanner Merkel on instagram about the differences between the pieces of equipment leading up to them going to Russia, but I'm curious to what the consensus is from people who have trained both.

Edited by devinhoo
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Aleksandar Milosevic

I second your question. Since I'm in the process of making something similar to a NN.

 

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japete01

In for the same advice.

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FrankSobotka

Just ordered the 2 inch blocks for the NN. Never used a real Saxon bar but I’d love to do some curls and presses with it. Might buy one some day. 

Are the 2” blocks for the NN 2x4 or 2x5? 

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devinhoo
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, FrankSobotka said:

Just ordered the 2 inch blocks for the NN. Never used a real Saxon bar but I’d love to do some curls and presses with it. Might buy one some day. 

Are the 2” blocks for the NN 2x4 or 2x5? 

Ahh, I should have clarified. Lucas sells the 2"x4" NN pinch blocks on his website. However since I already had the 3"x4" handles, I ordered the 2"x5" ones custom to fill gaps in my training.

Edited by devinhoo
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FrankSobotka
10 minutes ago, devinhoo said:

Ahh, I should have clarified. Lucas sells the 2"x4" NN pinch blocks on his website. However since I already had the 3"x4" handles, I ordered the 2"x5" ones custom to fill gaps in my training.

Good thinking, wish I thought of that! 

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Lucasraymond

From the few people that have used both there is only a few lb difference with the same thickbess saxon bar and NN pinch blocks including myself. 

 

3”x 4” NN- 255lbs

3”x4” Saxon- 253lbs

 

2”x4” NN- 268lbs

2”x5” Saxon- 263lbs (prob would be higher with 2”x4” bc of tilt torque) 

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FrankSobotka

Where is everyone buying Saxon bars from these days? 

@Lucasraymond Do you make them? 

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lder

I have no experience with the NN products, but I recently got a Sorinex Saxon Bar for an upcoming Armlifting USA contest.  After working with it for a few weeks I would have to say that both hands pinching on one solid bar makes it much different than independent rotating handles even at the same diameter.   One hand feeds off the other, you can identify you weaknesses much better, and really dial in your hand width to find a good sweet spot that works.    Also, the Saxon Bar will always be 3-5" farther forward from your center of gravity compared to a loading pin, straddle style, lift which is much closer to the body's COG.  Very different dynamics. 

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FrankSobotka
56 minutes ago, lder said:

I have no experience with the NN products, but I recently got a Sorinex Saxon Bar for an upcoming Armlifting USA contest.  After working with it for a few weeks I would have to say that both hands pinching on one solid bar makes it much different than independent rotating handles even at the same diameter.   One hand feeds off the other, you can identify you weaknesses much better, and really dial in your hand width to find a good sweet spot that works.    Also, the Saxon Bar will always be 3-5" farther forward from your center of gravity compared to a loading pin, straddle style, lift which is much closer to the body's COG.  Very different dynamics. 

Are you saying both hands on the same bar makes it easier or harder? 

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lder
1 hour ago, FrankSobotka said:

Are you saying both hands on the same bar makes it easier or harder? 

Easier to identify weaknesses (thumb strength vs. finger strength) on each hand.  Harder because of the full ROM from the ground instead of a higher loading pin.  However,  body weight and starting grip strength aside, I would think anything sub 190-200lbs would be somewhat equal between the implements.  

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)

They may not be equal, but the stress on the hands is very similar and if you have an NN, buying the pinch block handles is much less expensive.  lifting the weight you can pinch off the floor should not be an issue for anyone that doesn't have an injured back. If it is, you could aways throw in some deadlift work to strengthen tht area, but c'mon man.  Obviously, using the implement you will be competing on in a contest is optimal, but you can get some good training in with the NN blocks if you don't have access to, or funds for, a Saxon bar.

 

By the way, Luke does have Saxon bars at very attractive prices on his site.

Edited by Mike Rinderle
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AdamTGlass

The side to side comparison discussion must include options other than a deadlift. Saxon bars are excellent to train a variety of motions with. The nn does exactly what it is stated to do - light weight affordable pinch lift. Apples to apples long term a Saxon bar can be used for a more complete program (pressing, snatches, cleans, rows, high pulls, curls, etc) 

the exact hand pressure is not the same but interestingly I see with our crew here that 3x4 nn Pinch and 3x4 Saxon pinch numbers extremely close. Tanner and I are about +20-25 comparing the nn to the Saxon. Being so high above the weight in a straddle is definitely better leverage. 

a question I would ask is why do you want the stronger hand? A sport other then grip? For grip? Just because?

if it’s for another sport and you need more thumb strength either choice certainly a solid stand in. 

If it’s for grip which league? Some leagues use the same equipment and some invent new lifts every contest. If you’re training for cross bar events use that equipment. If lockout with judge , use that equipment.It would matter where you are going to test yourself. The 3x4 Saxon is rising in the last year as the accepted size on both sides of pond. Comparing the nn to the flask as a pin loaded handle - I think nn rises as winner. 

if it’s just because than any pinch you add now is useful and look to the goals you have set for yourself to guide you. 

Purchase cost is the last consideration- either way you go the equipment will be around longer than you will be. I’ve never heard of a person breaking a NN or a Saxon. 

Your max 2 hand pinch will be key to your program if you ever want a strong hand. There’s no such thing as a strong hand with a weak pinch 🦞🦞🦞

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Joseph Sullivan

They are both great tools. But at the end of the day, if you can, get both. If you can’t? Get what you will most likely be competing on. Train how you play is the name of the game. Having both,  I prefer the actual bar to the independent handles, just because I liked that feel better, and I like the full lift from the floor, but the price point and the modular ability of the NN is awesome. You can’t go wrong with either, but at the end of the day? TRAIN HOW YOU PLAY!!👍👍👍

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Lucasraymond
Posted (edited)
On 8/7/2019 at 12:21 PM, FrankSobotka said:

Where is everyone buying Saxon bars from these days? 

@Lucasraymond Do you make them? 

Yes they are on the site...I will make whatever you want but the options on the website arE 3x4 or 2x5 but I made both jedd and I and Joe S a multi-width with both 2” and 2.5” gripping width options 

Edited by Lucasraymond
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Lucasraymond
On 8/7/2019 at 1:32 PM, lder said:

I have no experience with the NN products, but I recently got a Sorinex Saxon Bar for an upcoming Armlifting USA contest.  After working with it for a few weeks I would have to say that both hands pinching on one solid bar makes it much different than independent rotating handles even at the same diameter.   One hand feeds off the other, you can identify you weaknesses much better, and really dial in your hand width to find a good sweet spot that works.    Also, the Saxon Bar will always be 3-5" farther forward from your center of gravity compared to a loading pin, straddle style, lift which is much closer to the body's COG.  Very different dynamics. 

The COG only comes into play significantly when its your max deadlift weight. I personally am flexed forward more with my trunk to keep my shoulders in front of my hands with thoracic flexionto facilitate the lift; yes that isn't the best back posture to lift but it puts my hands in the same position as using the NN which is why my lifts are very similar. Also if you have a weak hand then move your grip towards that side slightly to add more weight to your strong hand (can do this on NN, axle, saxon, etc). 

 

Like others have said figure out why you want a saxon and if you plan on using it for other movements than a deadlift, what contests are you doing, and last of all cost. 

 

Always train as specific as you can for a contest; it usually tends to get the best results and gives you a marker to go off when picking your lifting weights. 

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acorn

I haven't tried a NN Pinch but I love my Saxon bar. I made my first one in 2009 to allow me to train not only Pinch DL but also Oly style lifts with Pinch. I am still using that bar regularly as a staple of my pinch work and training and it is one of the few items I would want to take with me if I was stuck on a desert island and needed to train.

- Aaron

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FrankSobotka
1 hour ago, acorn said:

I haven't tried a NN Pinch but I love my Saxon bar. I made my first one in 2009 to allow me to train not only Pinch DL but also Oly style lifts with Pinch. I am still using that bar regularly as a staple of my pinch work and training and it is one of the few items I would want to take with me if I was stuck on a desert island and needed to train.

- Aaron

What dimensions do you prefer? 

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acorn
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FrankSobotka said:

What dimensions do you prefer? 

2x5 is my preference. Also the only size I choose to make.

Edited by acorn
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