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Joseph Sullivan

Chalk vs slight knurling

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Joseph Sullivan

Just throwing something out there. Don’t get too excited, everyone, but wouldn’t we get around this chalk on the implement thing if the devices had a slight texture knurling or paint? This would get around the “getting the ideal surface” chalk and see who reall has the best grip, as sweaty palms and friction based variables would be eliminated! Would not have to worry about devices being seasoned or not nor it would not matter what part of the world you are in. You either lift more than the other guy, or you don’t! Plain and simple. The knurling would knock out the factor COMPLETELY. It should be about grip and not who can get the most chalk or not or who has hyperhydrosis (excess sweating) in the palms preventing them the best lift possible. Totally eliminates those variables. This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while and resparked my thought on it when Nathan Holle mentioned it on Jedds you tube video on the iron mind chalk fiasco.

your thoughts? I’m sure there are many!

Joe

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Mywor

Knurling doesn't really eliminate the need or the help you get from chalk. You would still lift more and your hands would be safer even if the implement had knurling. 

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Joseph Sullivan
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Mywor said:

Knurling doesn't really eliminate the need or the help you get from chalk. You would still lift more and your hands would be safer even if the implement had knurling. 

It eliminates the slippage due to sweat and eliminates the worry of seasoning on implements that is so wide spread throughout our kingdom. All one would need is chalk on the hand to dry them and then go to it. The fact that these implements are smooth makes it too variable from implement to implement and location to location. For example, if I can deadlift 600 on an oly bar, I most likely can do this on any other of the same bars out there. Why? Knurling. No need to worry about seasoning for texture, because it’s the same All around 

Smooth axle? Nope. Depends on the seasoning. So it’s a crap shoot. That’s just one example out of the gate. 

Another example is @Alawadhi and his location. Due to his climate, people can’t lift nearly as much there as they can at other locations according to those who have been there. Knurling or texture paint would also eliminate that variable. 

 

 

Edited by Joseph Sullivan

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king crusher
56 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

While it might seem like im in full support of the no chalking of implements, i admit that i am again chaotic neutral mostly. I prefer chalk, and do not see it as cheating the feat. However, i do acknowledge that if i am to choose between no chalking of implements, or facing the many variables that come with others chalking, how well they chalk, or how good the quality of their chalk is, its a no brainer for me that the chalking opens the doors up to more variables than everyone is comfortable with admitting. And no chalk on the implements represents less variables (than the many styles of chalking) imo.

so for me, its the lesser of two evils approach.

 

btw, if anyone wants to know the most efficient and consistant way to keep implements equally clean, Brake Clean is your friend. No doubt about it... if you spray that sucker off with brake clean, i guarantee it will remove ANY hand oils that implement might have even thought about having. And will dry quickly afterward to boot! Try it and you might see that its the single most best advice youll ever run into for keeping implements oil free and consistant, without giving any added friction advantage other than consistancy. 

That stuff is designed to do the exact same thing with brake pads on rotors. Keep things consistant.

I prefer to spray my implements down with white lithium grease.  Works wayyyy better than brake parts cleaner bro!!

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Aleksandar Milosevic

My opinion is that all of the grip implements should have the biggest possible friction, almost like sandpaper. We're not competing or testing in who seasons the implement the best, or applies chalk just the right way, we're measuring grip strength. 

I'm saying this because I've built my own Wrist wrench from aluminum, and every workout my biggest problem is getting my hands and the implement itself prepared so it doesn't feel like I'm gripping glass. And the difference is as it follows: when it's slippery, it's impossible to hold on to, when it's right as it should be, I get 10 reps with the same weight, so it's a 1000% difference, and that's just stupid. So what I did is that I've put a layer of regular bandage tape around it and it didn't help my performance weight wise, just eliminated the frustration and time wasting of getting the surface right. To me, Rolling thunder is the worst rotating handle, because of the idiotic material used for the handle, and I'm planning to wrap that up too, because it's stupid to have a difference between 5 and 15 reps because of the surface preparation. I want consistency. Every legitimate sport has consistency. 

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Joseph Sullivan
1 minute ago, Aleksandar Milosevic said:

My opinion is that all of the grip implements should have the biggest possible friction, almost like sandpaper. We're not competing or testing in who seasons the implement the best, or applies chalk just the right way, we're measuring grip strength. 

I'm saying this because I've built my own Wrist wrench from aluminum, and every workout my biggest problem is getting my hands and the implement itself prepared so it doesn't feel like I'm gripping glass. And the difference is as it follows: when it's slippery, it's impossible to hold on to, when it's right as it should be, I get 10 reps with the same weight, so it's a 1000% difference, and that's just stupid. So what I did is that I've put a layer of regular bandage tape around it and it didn't help my performance weight wise, just eliminated the frustration and time wasting of getting the surface right. To me, Rolling thunder is the worst rotating handle, because of the idiotic material used for the handle, and I'm planning to wrap that up too, because it's stupid to have a difference between 5 and 15 reps because of the surface preparation. I want consistency. Every legitimate sport has consistency. 

I 110% agree with this statement. Shouldn’t be about to lift 200 on one implement and 250 on the same device due to conditions 

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Aleksandar Milosevic
15 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

I 110% agree with this statement. Shouldn’t be about to lift 200 on one implement and 250 on the same device due to conditions 

Of course, that's just absurd. Imagine weightlifters having a 15 kg oscillation on their lifts, because of equipment issues. If the objective is to make grip sport or armlifting a legitimate sport, the key word is consistency. 

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Alawadhi
21 hours ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

It eliminates the slippage due to sweat and eliminates the worry of seasoning on implements that is so wide spread throughout our kingdom. All one would need is chalk on the hand to dry them and then go to it. The fact that these implements are smooth makes it too variable from implement to implement and location to location. For example, if I can deadlift 600 on an oly bar, I most likely can do this on any other of the same bars out there. Why? Knurling. No need to worry about seasoning for texture, because it’s the same All around 

Smooth axle? Nope. Depends on the seasoning. So it’s a crap shoot. That’s just one example out of the gate. 

Another example is @Alawadhi and his location. Due to his climate, people can’t lift nearly as much there as they can at other locations according to those who have been there. Knurling or texture paint would also eliminate that variable. 

 

 

True. But knurled or not knurled with my sweaty hands it's so hard to pick things really. So so hard That I cab do 10% of my chalked max if my hands are sweaty. My hands are sometimes dry too but if I think about it it'll get sweat.

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Mikael Siversson

Temperature and humidity are easier to control in eg garage style comps than skin texture etc. Chalk makes an even playing field. Can't remember his name but we had an Aussie bloke her on the GB arguing about his squeaky clean pinch implements. This was maybe a decade ago.

 

Why do you people worry so much about IM rules?

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Joseph Sullivan
3 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Temperature and humidity are easier to control in eg garage style comps than skin texture etc. Chalk makes an even playing field. Can't remember his name but we had an Aussie bloke her on the GB arguing about his squeaky clean pinch implements. This was maybe a decade ago.

 

Why do you people worry so much about IM rules?

I don’t worry at all. Whatever the rules are, I will do. Doesn’t matter to me .

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Climber028
12 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Temperature and humidity are easier to control in eg garage style comps than skin texture etc. Chalk makes an even playing field. Can't remember his name but we had an Aussie bloke her on the GB arguing about his squeaky clean pinch implements. This was maybe a decade ago.

 

Why do you people worry so much about IM rules?

I think the criticism is just of the constant change. If they had this rule from day one it wouldn't be as big of a deal. I think it's silly but ultimately I'm with Joe, do whatever rules you want and I'll happily ablige during competition. 

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wobbler

Don't use brake clean on anything painted. A good wipe down with rubbing alcohol works for me and won't eat paint, I use acetone on bare steel. Brake clean would be faster and probably get you a pretty good buzz in an enclosed space.

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Mike Rinderle
Posted (edited)

Their equipment.  Their rules.  They can do whatever they want.  It's what makes America great.

This is par for the course with IM.  Every cert they have, has people on it that certified under easier conditions.  They have been very consistent.  They will consistently make the implements and certs harder, but leave the old school guys on the list without an asterix.  Even though the current cert may not even resemble what the original people achieved.

If this is the new standard, they should freeze the records and start new ones, but they won't.  Like I said, their ball... their rules.

However, nobody has to pay any attention to their rules when contesting an event with an IM product in a gripsport contest.  I'm sure IM will be happy to sell you an implement for twice the price you can get it elsewhere, whether you decide to chalk it or not.  You just can't attain an IM World Record.  

Chalk, and the chalking of implements, has been a part of this sport for two decades.  Just because IM makes some pronouncement from on high about what will and what won't qualify as a world record for them, means nothing to a contest promoter.  Do what you want.  It will mainly hurt the guys that want to get their name on an IM record.  Those that have been working toward a record only to have the rules change mid-stream are the ones that get really hurt by this crap.   They are the ones I feel bad for. 

So if you want to run a no chalk contest, do it.  If you want to use chalk, do it.  Who cares what IM decides?  Not me. 

 

As for using all new knurled equipment: I'm not a fan.  Mainly because you suddenly freeze every record and leaderboard out there that people have worked to get on.  It's a whole new lift now.  Plus, everybody would have to go out and buy a ton of new stuff.  That seems overly burdensome to contest promoters and trainees in my opinion.  I'm of the opinion that the current system of chalk use and implements has worked really well in grip for about 20 years.  Why fix something that isn't broke.

For the record, I'm not a fan of overly chalked implements.  I like a light base on an implement and just enough on my hands to stop the sweat and oil from ruining a lift.  So I guess that puts me in the in-between crowd.  I do think that those that have put in the time to figure out exactly what chalk to use and how to use it to maximise their lifts within the rules sould be applauded, not attacked.  They obviously care enough about doing well that they have put in the time to find the secret sauce to maximise their performance.  @climber511 has been a master of this over the years.   No different than somebody who spends hours and hours getting good at setting a gripper to give themselves an advantage over other people who don't take the time to get good at it.  Or a QB like Tom Brady that spent twice as much time as anyone else studying film so he could outperform those who are way more physically gifted.  Everybody should be trying everything possible to maximise their performance inside the rules.  That's just smart.

Edited by Mike Rinderle
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climber511
Posted (edited)

A little history - none of this is new to the GB.  In the past quite a few different ideas have been floated as to “seasoning” - “chromed” – Chalked vs no chalk – textured or knurled and everything in between etc here on the Gripboard.  About everything (except maybe the brake cleaner) has been discussed before.  At one point someone made a chrome like pinch device with that shiny chrome like on an old school car bumper – with the idea of using a perfectly clean surface and hands – no anything else allowed. It was quite a failure as I remember.  But don’t discount “chrome” exactly yet.  My garage only has heat for a couple hours a day – which means every steel surface gets condensation and then rusts badly when the heat comes on.  So I had what a friend called an “industrial” chrome surface put on my Euro.  It’s very smooth to the touch but not glassy.  It will hold a dusting of chalk but you can’t get a build up on it and it hasn’t developed any “pitting” at all with over a decade of use. And it doesn’t rust which solved my particular problem.  IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED IN A CONTEST except as the warm up device.  But in my training it lifts just a few pounds less than any other Euro I have lifted on and I set my personal training PR on it.  Other than its appearance it looks like any other fairly new Euro except it has a slightly golden color to it.  It was the warmup device for the Last Gripmas.  When I developed my Climber Pinch I had a similar problem with rust – which I solved with Rusoleum  textured paint.  These were only used in my Medleys so I didn’t figure it mattered what the surface was.  Textured paint (at least what I use) isn’t a good answer as the texture degrades fairly quickly (it does hold chalk well) – something harder might be OK.  Knurling seems ridiculous to me – you may think differently.

 

Maybe it’s just me but there seems to me there is an undercurrent of thought that I somehow cheated by actually studying all aspects of the Euro – with chalking – preparing of both hands and surface as best I could.  If you think that - I’m fine with it – all this tells me is you didn’t take the lift nearly as serious as I did.  I also experimented with every way I could think of with hand placement and pressure – and freely taught anyone who came to me what little I had learned – including Kody who added around 40# to his Euro in a couple hours with my help.  Perhaps the problem isn’t what I did but what you didn’t do to maximize your performance?  I have probably written about chalk and my preparation for the lifts a half dozen times here in the past – so it wasn’t like I was hiding some big secret. 

 

As for IronMind – I’m not even up to date on what changes have been made.  If I decide to try a Cert for them or do a contest that features them – I will use their latest rules but I will experiment within those rules to get the best results I can.

Edited by climber511
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Joseph Sullivan
22 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Nope, not at all. I would fully expect a climber to be privy to what chalks do what. As a climbers life could very well depend on making the right chalk decision. And naturally, being that you also do grip, i would also fully expect you to apply that same knowledge to anything hand hold related on sort of a 2nd nature basis.

the idea i dont like though is people who compete in grip who are not climbers making every effort they can to stick to an impement the best they can where their life doesnt depend on it. At that point i feel we have gone way beyond the argument that we are simply “eliminating variables” and instead aimimg to gain an edge.

 

this board has quite the fascinating hypocrisy as of late. In 1 hand, debates carried on and on for pages about what is and is not in the “spirit” of grip. Even Making claims that 2 hand lifts are more posterior chain test than grip tests, etc. or claiming that in the “spirit” of grip we shouldnt need to lock out, etc.

while at the same time attempting to sell the idea that every edge they can gain with chalk game is innocently “maximizing performance”. How is gaining every edge we can in “spirit” of grip strength? Shouldnt your grip strength alone be whats tested??? And not your ability to spider man enhance your hand stickiness? Where is the grip strenth “spirit” stance now?

some double double double 007 stuff going on around here. 🤣

I love 2 hands lifts and I don’t know why anyone would think they weren’t a grip lift. Totally grip with fat bars and pinch bars. And and added bonus of full body power/strength increase. Win win. There is no 2 hands grip lift that my posterior chain won’t handle that my grip can. Grip will give out long before the posterior chain. Unless you’re @Boulderbrew

2 hands grip lifts equals more bang for your buck and less time in the gym. Win win IMO

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Mike Rinderle
31 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Nope, not at all. I would fully expect a climber to be privy to what chalks do what. As a climbers life could very well depend on making the right chalk decision. And naturally, being that you also do grip, i would also fully expect you to apply that same knowledge to anything hand hold related on sort of a 2nd nature basis.

the idea i dont like though is people who compete in grip who are not climbers making every effort they can to stick to an impement the best they can where their life doesnt depend on it. At that point i feel we have gone way beyond the argument that we are simply “eliminating variables” and instead aimimg to gain an edge.

 

this board has quite the fascinating hypocrisy as of late. In 1 hand, debates carried on and on for pages about what is and is not in the “spirit” of grip. Even Making claims that 2 hand lifts are more posterior chain test than grip tests, etc. or claiming that in the “spirit” of grip we shouldnt need to lock out, etc.

while at the same time attempting to sell the idea that every edge they can gain with chalk game is innocently “maximizing performance”. How is gaining every edge we can in “spirit” of grip strength? Shouldnt your grip strength alone be whats tested??? And not your ability to spider man enhance your hand stickiness? Where is the grip strenth “spirit” stance now?

some double double double 007 stuff going on around here. 🤣

I suck at chalking stuff.  Half the time I make things worse not better.  But are you saying only people that climb should be allowed to maximize their lifts with the best chalk and implement preparation?  Maybe I'm missing something but that doesn't make sense to me.  

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Eric Roussin
33 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Nope, not at all. I would fully expect a climber to be privy to what chalks do what. As a climbers life could very well depend on making the right chalk decision. And naturally, being that you also do grip, i would also fully expect you to apply that same knowledge to anything hand hold related on sort of a 2nd nature basis.

the idea i dont like though is people who compete in grip who are not climbers making every effort they can to stick to an impement the best they can where their life doesnt depend on it. At that point i feel we have gone way beyond the argument that we are simply “eliminating variables” and instead aimimg to gain an edge.

 

this board has quite the fascinating hypocrisy as of late. In 1 hand, debates carried on and on for pages about what is and is not in the “spirit” of grip. Even Making claims that 2 hand lifts are more posterior chain test than grip tests, etc. or claiming that in the “spirit” of grip we shouldnt need to lock out, etc.

while at the same time attempting to sell the idea that every edge they can gain with chalk game is innocently “maximizing performance”. How is gaining every edge we can in “spirit” of grip strength? Shouldnt your grip strength alone be whats tested??? And not your ability to spider man enhance your hand stickiness? Where is the grip strenth “spirit” stance now?

some double double double 007 stuff going on around here. 🤣

I don't think expert chalkers are looking for their hands to stick -- they're looking for their hands not to slip. To me, these are two different things.

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Adam Juncker
3 hours ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Plus, everybody would have to go out and buy a ton of new stuff.

Yes, no kidding.  Has anyone ever priced having a machine shop surface knurl anything?  I have and it ain't cheap.  

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Eric Roussin

To me, sticking means something that assists the lift even if no force is applied. For example, if I applied Stickum to my hand, placed it flat on a sheet of paper, and then lifted it, the sheet of paper would come up. The same would not happen if chalk was applied to my hand instead. This is the difference I'm trying to point out between sticking and not slipping.

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Wannagrip

I thought the IPF world record was a matter of the weights used and proper seated judging. Not the venue itself??

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Mike Rinderle
20 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

I thought the IPF world record was a matter of the weights used and proper seated judging. Not the venue itself??

It has to be an international competition for it to count as a world record.

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Adam Juncker

Chalking is a skill.  Just because some of us have spent the time and effort to find out what works for us doesn't mean we should be penalized for others that can't figure it out.  Chalk may not even help if you don't take care of your skin.  If your skin is too dry, not elastic enough, or too elastic, the benefits of chalk can be diminished.   

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