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Changing rules

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Joseph Sullivan
8 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

Chalk. On the "Rolling Thunder", I 100% agree with IronMind new rules. Why? Because personally, if I am in a contest, I detest chalk on the RT. I will even go into the bathroom and rinse my hands off to get every speck of chalk from my own hands.  Alexey would carry his own rag with him to wipe off the device, to the extent that people were suspecting he had some magic stuff on the cloth (he didn't, one time Odd inspected it, and one time I did). On the other hand, Mark Felix, who has some of the biggest hands in the sport, chalks the heck out of his hands. Chalk on the handle really annoys me. If I were to guess, I suspect the votes would be 50/50  for personal chalk preferences on the RT. 

I may be the only one on the planet who can pull more on the old "slick" IM Hubs (that did not hold a lick of chalk) than the textured chalky new ones. My hands themselves are addicted to chalk on the lift, but it doesn't seem to make any difference for me on the actual device. I think that is unusual.

FBBC vertical bars, Horne's Euro Pinch, none of which are IM implements...tremendous advantage with "seasoned" chalked up bars and plates. I doubt if hardly anyone disagrees on that. 

IM LBH, Block...I really don't have enough experience on those to weigh in. I "think" those are impacted more than some and less than others from chalk.

My guess is that the only IM record that is "safe" under the new rules is the Hub. I think the potential on the other gadgets is yet to be hit. 

The huge difference in preferences on the RT just goes to show how personal some of this stuff is. 

I also don’t use chalk on RT. Makes it worse

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Hubgeezer
Just now, Joseph Sullivan said:

I also don’t use chalk on RT. Makes it worse

"Worse" is an understatement for me. 

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Jedd Johnson
On 3/9/2019 at 11:00 AM, Joseph Sullivan said:

Thanks. In real life, if I have to lift something or show off in front of someone on the street or get in a confrontation on the street , I don’t have any chalk in my pocket . That’s how me sees it!

This isn't real life though.  It's a sport where chalk helps in most events.  That's like saying someone isn't going to use tacky on strongman stones, because if they have to fight someone in an altercation, they won't have their tub of tacky on them.  All you're doing by not chalking or not using tacky is handicapping your performance.  If you're ok with that, that's fine, but that's really all you're doing.

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Joseph Sullivan
1 minute ago, Jedd Johnson said:

This isn't real life though.  It's a sport where chalk helps in most events.  That's like saying someone isn't going to use tacky on strongman stones, because if they have to fight someone in an altercation, they won't have their tub of tacky on them.  All you're doing by not chalking or not using tacky is handicapping your performance.  If you're ok with that, that's fine, but that's really all you're doing.

Funny that you answered this. You are the one that convinced me to use Chalk at all , if you recall. Training without chalk hasn’t handicapped me at all. When it comes time to use chalk, I can lift way more. I actually think training with  little to none helps me a lot. I have my reasons for why I do the things like I do. I like being able to lift things and do strong things without any external additives. Just my way. And that the bottom liiiinnnnee brrothherrrrrrr. 🤡

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Jedd Johnson
2 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Funny that you answered this. You are the one that convinced me to use Chalk at all , if you recall. Training without chalk hasn’t handicapped me at all. When it comes time to use chalk, I can lift way more. I actually think training with  little to none helps me a lot. I have my reasons for why I do the things like I do. I like being able to lift things and do strong things without any external additives. Just my way. And that the bottom liiiinnnnee brrothherrrrrrr. 🤡

If it works for you, roll with it.

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Lucasraymond
8 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

Chalk. On the "Rolling Thunder", I 100% agree with IronMind new rules. Why? Because personally, if I am in a contest, I detest chalk on the RT. I will even go into the bathroom and rinse my hands off to get every speck of chalk from my own hands.  Alexey would carry his own rag with him to wipe off the device, to the extent that people were suspecting he had some magic stuff on the cloth (he didn't, one time Odd inspected it, and one time I did). On the other hand, Mark Felix, who has some of the biggest hands in the sport, chalks the heck out of his hands. Chalk on the handle really annoys me. If I were to guess, I suspect the votes would be 50/50  for personal chalk preferences on the RT. 

I may be the only one on the planet who can pull more on the old "slick" IM Hubs (that did not hold a lick of chalk) than the textured chalky new ones. My hands themselves are addicted to chalk on the lift, but it doesn't seem to make any difference for me on the actual device. I think that is unusual.

FBBC vertical bars, Horne's Euro Pinch, none of which are IM implements...tremendous advantage with "seasoned" chalked up bars and plates. I doubt if hardly anyone disagrees on that. 

IM LBH, Block...I really don't have enough experience on those to weigh in. I "think" those are impacted more than some and less than others from chalk.

My guess is that the only IM record that is "safe" under the new rules is the Hub. I think the potential on the other gadgets is yet to be hit. 

The huge difference in preferences on the RT just goes to show how personal some of this stuff is. 

I took a new RT (5 days old) and was able to cover the whole rolling part in about 20 secs with chalk and I promise everyone would lift more on that than without chalk. But I’m a weak chalk whisperer for being able to chalk it..not actually strong.

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wobbler

"The hub must be wiped clean before each attempt."

Sure no probem. Start the clock, get to chalking during your 60 second time limit, and let's see who the best speed chalker is?

Luke if you got it down to 20 seconds then I'd say you're good to go, 40 seconds left for the lift.

 

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Mywor
4 hours ago, wobbler said:

"The hub must be wiped clean before each attempt."

Sure no probem. Start the clock, get to chalking during your 60 second time limit, and let's see who the best speed chalker is?

Luke if you got it down to 20 seconds then I'd say you're good to go, 40 seconds left for the lift.

 

I doubt you can chalk the implement on your own turn, but if you can I can't wait to see some speed chalking videos F1 tire changing style. 

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Fist of Fury
7 hours ago, Lucasraymond said:

I took a new RT (5 days old) and was able to cover the whole rolling part in about 20 secs with chalk and I promise everyone would lift more on that than without chalk. But I’m a weak chalk whisperer for being able to chalk it..not actually strong.

I can't believe how people can lift more without chalk on the RT. Chalk gives me several kg's more.

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Hubgeezer
41 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

I can't believe how people can lift more without chalk on the RT. Chalk gives me several kg's more.

June 30, 2013. In his American debut, Alexey beat Mike Burke on the Rolling Thunder in San Jose, Ca. That is the date the current World Record was set. Alexey wiped the handle clean on every one of his attempts. You might not believe it, but I saw it with my own eyes. 

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Mike Rinderle
5 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Just did my first atlas stone lift today. With no tacky. 

Although i now understand why tacky is used on stones.. did just 1 lift and it was enough to slide some skin off my arms due to little traction. I could see lifting the same stone 5 or 6 times would skin you up bad. Tacky would be the best way to prevent slipping/skin tearing if you prefer to have that skin for other events.

Stone Rash... the one true mark of a real man!  😁😎

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Fist of Fury
15 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

June 30, 2013. In his American debut, Alexey beat Mike Burke on the Rolling Thunder in San Jose, Ca. That is the date the current World Record was set. Alexey wiped the handle clean on every one of his attempts. You might not believe it, but I saw it with my own eyes. 

Oh yes I believe it. What I don't believe is how people get a better grip without chalk. Unless they wet their hands of course.

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Lucasraymond
43 minutes ago, Hubgeezer said:

June 30, 2013. In his American debut, Alexey beat Mike Burke on the Rolling Thunder in San Jose, Ca. That is the date the current World Record was set. Alexey wiped the handle clean on every one of his attempts. You might not believe it, but I saw it with my own eyes. 

 

6 hours ago, wobbler said:

"The hub must be wiped clean before each attempt."

Sure no probem. Start the clock, get to chalking during your 60 second time limit, and let's see who the best speed chalker is?

Luke if you got it down to 20 seconds then I'd say you're good to go, 40 seconds left for the lift.

 

My understanding from the Arnold is that you aren't allowed to actually "chalk" the implement during your turn but watching lifts from Dubai it looked that you are so the rules just need to be clarified if that is allowed or not. Starting with a cleaned implement and then letting the competitor use their 60 sec time to chalk as they please and get their lift in would be fine as no extra time would be wasted during the event. 

 

6 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Just did my first atlas stone lift today. With no tacky. 

Although i now understand why tacky is used on stones.. did just 1 lift and it was enough to slide some skin off my arms due to little traction. I could see lifting the same stone 5 or 6 times would skin you up bad. Tacky would be the best way to prevent slipping/skin tearing if you prefer to have that skin for other events.

Yeah made that mistake the first time I did an atlas stone also...the clean up with tacky is probably a pain in the ass. Never used tacky it but have had a bottle of liquid pine tar come open in my bag when playing baseball and I ended up just buying a new bag so assuming it would be similar. 

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BigRedDoc
9 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Just did my first atlas stone lift today. With no tacky. 

Although i now understand why tacky is used on stones.. did just 1 lift and it was enough to slide some skin off my arms due to little traction. I could see lifting the same stone 5 or 6 times would skin you up bad. Tacky would be the best way to prevent slipping/skin tearing if you prefer to have that skin for other events.

Duct tape or vet wrap on the forearms will help with the stone rash. Tacky is more for keeping your hands on the stone where you place them so the stone doesn't roll away as you try to lift.

 

3 hours ago, Lucasraymond said:

Yeah made that mistake the first time I did an atlas stone also...the clean up with tacky is probably a pain in the ass. Never used tacky it but have had a bottle of liquid pine tar come open in my bag when playing baseball and I ended up just buying a new bag so assuming it would be similar. 

Yea tacky is pretty damn messy. Some goo gone or wd40 gets it off pretty good though. Tacky towels are great, they don't leave a mess on what you're lifting and it's much easier to clean your hands.

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Randall Strossen

Hey guys,

First, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that I have not read all the posts on this thread, but I quickly got the sense that something had gone astray.

Other than the Rolling Thunder, chalk can be applied to the implement, and as I had explained to Jedd a couple of weeks ago, "We had a brief flirtation with trying no-chalk-on-the-implement but its lifespan was almost zero and after much, much, much discussion, decided it was ok if someone wanted to chalk an implement. Instead, the right thing was to start clean on each attempt, so everyone is on equal footing. Anything you can do to help broadcast this standard through the grip community would be very much appreciated."

Looks like what we got instead of an accurate description of the situation, a couple of people have chosen to claim something that is patently false.

Jedd wrote back and persisted in not understanding that chalking the implement was ok, so I tried again: "Not sure we’re talking about the same thing—the implement must be wiped clean before each successive attempt . . . from there the lifter can put chalk on his hands, the implement or even on his forehead if he’d like to."

The reason why the Rolling Thunder is the exception to chalking the implement is because that can make it easier to interfere with the rotation.

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Joseph Sullivan
18 minutes ago, Randall Strossen said:

Hey guys,

First, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that I have not read all the posts on this thread, but I quickly got the sense that something had gone astray.

Other than the Rolling Thunder, chalk can be applied to the implement, and as I had explained to Jedd a couple of weeks ago, "We had a brief flirtation with trying no-chalk-on-the-implement but its lifespan was almost zero and after much, much, much discussion, decided it was ok if someone wanted to chalk an implement. Instead, the right thing was to start clean on each attempt, so everyone is on equal footing. Anything you can do to help broadcast this standard through the grip community would be very much appreciated."

Looks like what we got instead of an accurate description of the situation, a couple of people have chosen to claim something that is patently false.

Jedd wrote back and persisted in not understanding that chalking the implement was ok, so I tried again: "Not sure we’re talking about the same thing—the implement must be wiped clean before each successive attempt . . . from there the lifter can put chalk on his hands, the implement or even on his forehead if he’d like to."

The reason why the Rolling Thunder is the exception to chalking the implement is because that can make it easier to interfere with the rotation.

Randall,

Definitely sounds reasonable to wipe the chalk off in between attempts if others want it clean, but still have the option to apply before their attempt begins, and also being able to apply chalk to the hands. I know I don’t like a lot of chalk on some of the implements, particularly vertical bar and no chalk at all on RT. Coming straight from the maker of the rule will  definitely clear up any confusion. Thanks for replying. Seems ok to me. Everyone’s preference for chalk build up is different, I suppose .

Joe  

 

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Jedd Johnson
20 minutes ago, Randall Strossen said:

Hey guys,

First, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that I have not read all the posts on this thread, but I quickly got the sense that something had gone astray.

Other than the Rolling Thunder, chalk can be applied to the implement, and as I had explained to Jedd a couple of weeks ago, "We had a brief flirtation with trying no-chalk-on-the-implement but its lifespan was almost zero and after much, much, much discussion, decided it was ok if someone wanted to chalk an implement. Instead, the right thing was to start clean on each attempt, so everyone is on equal footing. Anything you can do to help broadcast this standard through the grip community would be very much appreciated."

Looks like what we got instead of an accurate description of the situation, a couple of people have chosen to claim something that is patently false.

Jedd wrote back and persisted in not understanding that chalking the implement was ok, so I tried again: "Not sure we’re talking about the same thing—the implement must be wiped clean before each successive attempt . . . from there the lifter can put chalk on his hands, the implement or even on his forehead if he’d like to."

The reason why the Rolling Thunder is the exception to chalking the implement is because that can make it easier to interfere with the rotation.

Are you saying I claimed something that is patently false?

If I did, I'm sorry, but please let me know what it was.  I haven't looked back on that conversation we had since the week we exchanged emails. 

Anywhere that I have stated that "chalking the implement is not allowed" came from the rules I went over at the contest, which said just that.   I have reviewed the rules and the phrasing regarding "no chalk may be applied directly to the implement" seems to have been taken off completely.

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Randall Strossen
31 minutes ago, Jedd Johnson said:

Are you saying I claimed something that is patently false?

If I did, I'm sorry, but please let me know what it was.  I haven't looked back on that conversation we had since the week we exchanged emails. 

Anywhere that I have stated that "chalking the implement is not allowed" came from the rules I went over at the contest, which said just that.   I have reviewed the rules and the phrasing regarding "no chalk may be applied directly to the implement" seems to have been taken off completely.

Yes—I explained you at least twice that chalk could be applied to the implement, but you have been saying that it cannot be. Please read the rules, carefully, and you will see that what I said is the case.

On the other hand (ha ha), not to worry, because I can understand how the confusion might have come about, but the important thing is to get this cleared up immediately and let's move forward now, please.

 

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Randall Strossen
27 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

No worries, im possibly one that did this as well. I also understood that no chalk was to be applied directly to implements, along with promoters wiping residue clean after each attempt as per the rules. And i relayed that info how it was written.

but im not taking Randy’s sentiments here as an insult. He did say that was indeed the case briefly, but after much discussion that has changed to only the RT is not to be chalked directly. And is still all implements must be cleaned after or before each attempt.

So no harm no foul.

 

Tommy -

It was that momentary flirtation with no chalk on the implement that opened the door to confusion, but Jedd was subsequently told multiple times that chalking the implement was ok.

In case anyone is interested, after a huge amount of discussion with a review panel IronMind decided it was fine to let people chalk the implement (along with their hands and even their foreheads) if they wanted to and that was because I tend to look at well-developed sports for guiding principles on rules: Given that Highland Games guys sometimes chalk stones before putting them, and because shot putters are allowed to put chalk directly on the shot, it seemed reasonable to follow the same principle on these grip events.

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Boulderbrew

Sorry to be redundant (I’m a bit of a slow learner). If I’m understanding correctly, prior to the start of a contest all IM products must be free of chalk entirely (bare and wiped clean). On a lifters attempt they may chalk the implement prior to lifting it (Excluding rolling thunder). Once that lifters attempt is complete, the implement must be wiped clean again prior to the next lifter approaching the platform. 

I agree with what Jesse alluded to. This could get ridiculous...some guys chalking with F1 tire changing speed. 

@Randall Strossen I don’t mind the new rule for rolling thunder, as @Hubgeezer said Alexey lifted the WR using a bare implement. I’m cool with that. On the other hand, friction based lifts like LBH, hub and blockbuster really do need a new records list now. It’s remarkably harder to lift with a bare implement, certainly everyone is on the same page with that. 

Lastly, if the goal is consistentsy, I don’t think this gets us any closer to our goal. I think a well chalked hub for example here in Texas is comparable to a well chalked hub in Finland (or wherever). An implement can only get so seasoned.

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climber511

I've been gone for a few days playing with my grandson (he's2) so I'm behind .  I posted this on the other thread as well.  A little history.  In the past quite a few different ideas have been floated as to “seasoning” - “chromed” – Chalked vs no chalk – textured or knurled and everything in between etc here on the Gripboard.  About everything (except maybe the brake cleaner) has been discussed before.  At one point someone made a chrome like pinch device with that shiny chrome like on an old school car bumper – with the idea of using a perfectly clean surface and hands – no anything else allowed. It was quite a failure as I remember.  But don’t discount “chrome” exactly yet.  My garage only has heat for a couple hours a day – which means every steel surface gets condensation and then rusts badly when the heat comes on.  So I had what a friend called an “industrial” chrome surface put on my Euro.  It’s very smooth to the touch but not glassy.  It will hold a dusting of chalk but you can’t get a build up on it and it hasn’t developed any “pitting” at all with over a decade of use. And it doesn’t rust which solved my particular problem.  IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED IN A CONTEST except as the warm up device.  But in my training it lifts within a few pounds of any other Euro I have lifted on and I set my personal training PR on it.  Other than its appearance it looks like any other fairly new Euro except it has a slightly golden color to it.  It was the warmup device for the Last Gripmas.  When I developed my Climber Pinch I had a similar problem with rust – which I solved with Rusoleum  textured paint.  These were only used in my Medleys so I didn’t figure it mattered what the surface was.  Textured paint (at least what I use) isn’t a good answer as the texture degrades fairly quickly (it does hold chalk well but too much hurts rather than helps) – something harder might be OK.  Knurling seems ridiculous to me – you may think differently.

 

Maybe it’s just me but there seems to me there is an undercurrent of thought that I somehow cheated by actually studying all aspects of the Euro – with chalking – preparing of both hands and surface as best I could.  If you think that - I’m fine with it – all this tells me is you didn’t take the lift nearly as serious as I did.  I also experimented with every way I could think of with hand placement and pressure – and freely taught anyone who came to me what little I had learned – including Kody who added around 40# to his Euro in a couple hours with my help.  Perhaps the problem isn’t what I did but what you didn’t do to maximize your performance?  I have probably written about chalk and my preparation for the lifts a half dozen times in the past – so it wasn’t like I was hiding some big secret. 

 

As for IronMind – I just read what changes have been made.  If I decide to try a Cert for them or do a contest that features them – I will use their latest rules but I will experiment as much as I can within those rules to get the best results I can.

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Jedd Johnson
1 hour ago, Randall Strossen said:

Yes—I explained you at least twice that chalk could be applied to the implement, but you have been saying that it cannot be. Please read the rules, carefully, and you will see that what I said is the case.

On the other hand (ha ha), not to worry, because I can understand how the confusion might have come about, but the important thing is to get this cleared up immediately and let's move forward now, please.

 

I want to publicly apologize for forgetting that part of our conversation, and later saying applying chalk directly to the implement was not allowed. 

In my defense, that was DEFINITELY in the official rules for some of the implements at one time though. 

Also, Clay and Riccardo, the Armlifting Chairmen, were both under the impression we could no apply chalk directly to the implements at the Arnold Armlifting, so I'm not alone in the matter.

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Lucasraymond
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Randall Strossen said:

Hey guys,

First, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that I have not read all the posts on this thread, but I quickly got the sense that something had gone astray.

Other than the Rolling Thunder, chalk can be applied to the implement, and as I had explained to Jedd a couple of weeks ago, "We had a brief flirtation with trying no-chalk-on-the-implement but its lifespan was almost zero and after much, much, much discussion, decided it was ok if someone wanted to chalk an implement. Instead, the right thing was to start clean on each attempt, so everyone is on equal footing. Anything you can do to help broadcast this standard through the grip community would be very much appreciated."

Looks like what we got instead of an accurate description of the situation, a couple of people have chosen to claim something that is patently false.

Jedd wrote back and persisted in not understanding that chalking the implement was ok, so I tried again: "Not sure we’re talking about the same thing—the implement must be wiped clean before each successive attempt . . . from there the lifter can put chalk on his hands, the implement or even on his forehead if he’d like to."

The reason why the Rolling Thunder is the exception to chalking the implement is because that can make it easier to interfere with the rotation.

Thank you for the explanation Randall! Does the competitor lifting have to be the one chalking it or can it be anyone chalking prior to someone lifting? 

Edited by Lucasraymond
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Kluv#0

I think not just IM WR attempts but GSI sanctioned events -  Only the athlete whose turn it is allowed to chalk the implement!!

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Randall Strossen
24 minutes ago, Jedd Johnson said:

I want to publicly apologize for forgetting that part of our conversation, and later saying applying chalk directly to the implement was not allowed. 

In my defense, that was DEFINITELY in the official rules for some of the implements at one time though. 

Also, Clay and Riccardo, the Armlifting Chairmen, were both under the impression we could no apply chalk directly to the implements at the Arnold Armlifting, so I'm not alone in the matter.

Jedd -

Thanks much and no big deal—the important thing is that we all move forward and focus on getting stronger.

Also, there's a good thing that came out of this because everyone should have this straight now, and anyone who is still confused is going to hear, What part of Yes don't you understand?

Thanks again.

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