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wobbler

Changing rules

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wobbler

Well guys, I did it. After a significant amount of thought, many many seconds of effort, and to be perfectly honest, I'd have to call it more than a few taps of my finger, I made a new thread instead of hijacking an existing one that was tangentially related.

(Please clap.)

Rule changes.

For pass/fail certification, yeah whatever. It's harder now, get stronger.

But for records on loadable lifts, come on. I don't think the rule change is the main issue, it's the records. Like it or not, everyone has to comply (in theory) with the new rules. 

But there is no way someone is going to hub 95+ lbs on fresh slick paint, so people will lose interest in shooting for that, or just put on contests with their own rules. Or, use different equipment.

At the very least, make a quick dated statement detailing the changes, freeze the old record, and start a new list from the date of the rule change. That way instead of everyone just complaining, you generate excitement and have people trying to set the new record.

Just my opinion, my only real point here is to draw posts into an appropriate thread instead of grumbling about in every thread that uses the word chalk.

 

 

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Climber028

I'm not worried about it. Multiple other leader boards exist, you could always run a competition with any rules you want if that makes you happy. 

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Lucasraymond
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Also,

If a guy wins in a comp where chalking of implements is allowed, he will also beat all those same people when no chalking of the implements is allowed.

the strongest guy still wins.

 

however, i suspect that some will have larger drops in numbers than others. Specifically chalk whisperers. And in that case, was that guy really the strongest at that event?.. or was there more than met the eye?

 

we can chalk this up (pun intended 😆) as a move towards more fairness.

I see what you did there 🤣

 

As i stated in the other post my concern is more about the records bc they will never be broke with the new rules. Even if you used basic gym chalk having a base chalk on the implement would change the weights significantly vs a clean implement. Everyones friction based lifts on IM equipment will go down, esp hub and blockbuster less on LBH and minimal on axle and RT. 

Just bc I’m one of the ones discussing it and taking the shots doesn’t mean the large percentage of the community doesn’t feel the same. Bc every contest Ive been to (~25-30) optimizing chalking is done by everyone that is a ‘seasoned’ gripster. So this effects the majority not just the “chalk whisperers”. You can come on up and we can compare your lifts on chalked and unchalked items anytime. I’ll chalk items for anyone including contest day; I’m fine with other people lifting more and if they beat me on my own chalking thats fine too so the stronger man still wins.  If someone at a different venue is maximizing their chalking/texture then you are only hurting yourself by not doing the same. Alot of times more chalk isnt better; there is a right and wrong amount which is the science behind the chalking.

 

Do I follow the rules and use only chalk and my hands, YES. Do I know there are there people that use water to help the chalk stick better in different areas in the world, YES. Do I do that, NEVER even tried it, bc it isn’t allowed in the rules. But there are times with humidity and temperature changes the metal sweats and does make it easier to chalk and have better texture (my first Inch DB liftbat Paul Knights and Pickup Artists train a lot when it is rainy and super humid). Tons of variability in areas including temperature, humidity, individual hand sweatiness, etc that does create different textures with events. Try to lift an item that has condensation on it without chalking it....not happening, instead acts likeba watermelon seed, harder you squeeze the faster it comes out of your hand.

 

The cleaning of the items will be subjective and change based on locations so there will be variability there also. Nothing is perfect but to me the “laissez faire” approach is the best and keeping subjectivity out as much as possible is huge. If someone figures out a technique that is allowed as per the rules then good for them; instead of others complaining why not try to do the same. Your opinion is different on many things which is fine bc we live in the USA which we are allowed.

 

Since you’re a mechanic; I would compare the rule change to something like Nascar...everyone has to start with basically the same setup with engine size, wheelbase dimensions, car height, spoiler, etc. The teams that are best are the ones that can optimize their car the best on race day through adjustments with tire pressure, camber, spoiler angle, gearing, etc. But if they were to change the rule and say that everyone has to run the same exact settings and not allowed to do adjustments it wouldn't go over well bc the adjustments and technical savviness is what puts people on the podium not always the fastest car. 

Edited by Lucasraymond
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Lucasraymond
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

I think your misunderstanding my message here.. i DO acknowledge there is a difference between seasoned and non seasoned implements. A big one! Which is why maybe the way things have been done up to now have technically not been fair comparisons?.. not everybody can “season” equipment quite like others can. And not everybody is even using as good of quality chalk as others to DO that seasoning. This equates to a ton of variables imo. But im getting deep..

here is my point- if your already beating the guys you compete with on the seasoned LBH, its a high probability that you will still win that event on an unseasoned LBH. And if you dont beat the same guys on an unseasoned LBH in particular, then it should clearly represent that what you were doing had nothing to do with hand strength, and everything to do with how sticky you could make the implement. 

Only time will tell. But i doubt any of you will be posting lifts with unseasoned equipment so we can know for sure.

 

And nossir, Texas has the A side. Ya’ll can come down here if you have something noteworthy to show. 😁

 

Yeah i can lift 230+ on an unseason LBH...done it multiple times. 

Yeah the strongest person doesnt always win just fyi; mistakes on weight jumps on attempts can make a difference. Jedd lifts 283 on jug versus jumping from 280 to 290 he wins the KK. His moontop number was recorded in error so with that fixed he actually took second overall. We didnt do anything about it bc I realized it after the results were posted and Eric R was made aware but Jedd didnt want to change it bc it would have only changed him from 3rd to 2nd not 3rd to 1st. 

And at NAGS... most of the time Eric R and Justin major would beat me in a contest but  experience and understanding my abilites for the medley made the difference not the stronger person. 

A side? im the one holding the belt not Texas!

Edited by Lucasraymond

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Lucasraymond
Posted (edited)

NAGS 2018 Overall Belt

F7501C54-8B88-4E79-A692-2DEAF567FACF.jpeg

Edited by Lucasraymond
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Mike Rinderle
4 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Holding the belt for what? The LBH? You have the current WR? Or was it denied. 🤭

Got eeem!

He is the defending NAGS champ.  He owns the belt until someone takes it away.

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Kluv#0

I like the IM rule change for WR attempts.  No need for a chalk festival to break out trying for a WR. In regards to Luke WR LBH it looked good to me however IM has other rules, one of them  (1 sec pause) and that could/has  been debated  on his WR attempt.

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Jedd Johnson
3 minutes ago, Kluv#0 said:

I like the IM rule change for WR attempts.  No need for a chalk festival to break out trying for a WR. In regards to Luke WR LBH it looked good to me however IM has other rules, one of them  (1 sec pause) and that could/has  been debated  on his WR attempt.

Yes good points. I also debated that 1 second pause on the current world record for LBH

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Lucasraymond
2 minutes ago, Kluv#0 said:

I like the IM rule change for WR attempts.  No need for a chalk festival to break out trying for a WR. In regards to Luke WR LBH it looked good to me however IM has other rules, one of them  (1 sec pause) and that could/has  been debated  on his WR attempt.

The pause and the chalking were both questioned...which comparing the the Ukrainian guy that currently has it that beat the down call it was no different. Laines record previous record should still be the record as per the 1 sec pause rule. Judging need to be consistent (not to bring that up again)

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Mike Rinderle

We hold the old fogies belt too.  😂

Screenshot_20190309-082201_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20190309-082307_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20190309-082216_Gallery.jpg

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Mywor

I'm wondering if the towel is going to be moist, and if so will it be remoisurized (?) during the contest. The towel moisture level is going to be different betwern each clean which will lead to differences between friction on each attempt. 

Are we allowed to ask for a new cleaning of the inplement if there is moisture left on it before our lift? 

How much chalk is allowed on the impmement? Zero? What if there is very small amount of it left, because cleaner missed a little bit?

Are we allowed to touch it with our non-lifting hand if there is chalk on the hand before the lift, because that will lead some chalk getting on the implement?

Are we allowed to use chalk from our lifting hand to chalk the implement a bit before the lift OR are we only allowed to touch implement when we're going to lift it? Some lifters like to do their own ritual with the implement (tapping/slapping it etc) is this not allowed from now on? 

 

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Lucasraymond
9 minutes ago, Mywor said:

I'm wondering if the towel is going to be moist, and if so will it be remoisurized (?) during the contest. The towel moisture level is going to be different betwern each clean which will lead to differences between friction on each attempt. 

Are we allowed to ask for a new cleaning of the inplement if there is moisture left on it before our lift? 

How much chalk is allowed on the impmement? Zero? What if there is very small amount of it left, because cleaner missed a little bit?

Are we allowed to touch it with our non-lifting hand if there is chalk on the hand before the lift, because that will lead some chalk getting on the implement?

Are we allowed to use chalk from our lifting hand to chalk the implement a bit before the lift OR are we only allowed to touch implement when we're going to lift it? Some lifters like to do their own ritual with the implement (tapping/slapping it etc) is this not allowed from now on? 

 

That is is the subjective variability that is the issue...no implement is truly clean. Not to mention the difference in humidity and temperature that changes the texture of an implement that isn't even close to the same in different areas of the world. 

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Fist of Fury
29 minutes ago, Mywor said:

I'm wondering if the towel is going to be moist, and if so will it be remoisurized (?) during the contest. The towel moisture level is going to be different betwern each clean which will lead to differences between friction on each attempt. 

Are we allowed to ask for a new cleaning of the inplement if there is moisture left on it before our lift? 

How much chalk is allowed on the impmement? Zero? What if there is very small amount of it left, because cleaner missed a little bit?

Are we allowed to touch it with our non-lifting hand if there is chalk on the hand before the lift, because that will lead some chalk getting on the implement?

Are we allowed to use chalk from our lifting hand to chalk the implement a bit before the lift OR are we only allowed to touch implement when we're going to lift it? Some lifters like to do their own ritual with the implement (tapping/slapping it etc) is this not allowed from now on? 

 

Good points and this is why the rule is so stupid. Now it's going to be even more inconsistencies. The whole point with chalk is to make training consistent. It's each athletes responsibility to learn how to chalk, train, then do the same when you compete.

Sure if you want to make everything simple, just remove all implements from grip competition and use dynamometers for everything. That would be "fair" and very fun...

 

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Mike Rinderle
1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

Who all competed at 2018 NAGS?

Moot point.  It was open to anyone who qualified.

He beat everyone that showed up.  Although it was a strong field with Eric and Justin there.

That's like saying Carl Myerscoff's (hope I was close on that spelling) win doesn't mean anything because Brian Shaw didn't compete.

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KapMan

I think its stupid. People need to make up their minds and get this shit ironed out. This wont help growth and it could potentially piss people off enough to just leave all together. Pick a damn way and stick with it. 

F35FA9D2-91C1-4CFC-94A1-0B9D195502A6.jpeg

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Lucasraymond

Rogue just came out of the Rhino Horn lift which is a similar lift as the LBH...Mark Felix has a video lifting with it. 

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Joseph Sullivan

I do not care if it’s chalked or not chalked. I will show up and lift ether way. I started out doing this with never using chalk. I only use it because everyone else does and I am certainly not going to disadvantage myself in a contest. But to be honest,  I rarely use chalk or much chalk in training. Has served me well, so I don’t care either way. When I first started grip, I didn’t use chalk because I wanted to be able to lift things without having to add any external aid to lift it. I never used a suit it lift a weight and I saw chalk for grip as the same thing in my eyes as a purist. Kind of the same reason why I always full close a gripper. I see it as if I can’t close it all the way then can I really close it. This is purely my opinion as a purist. I would definitely not disadvantage myself and not use chalk in a contest and I would not fault anyone else for their tactics using chalk or closing grippers either. This is just my view.

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KapMan
6 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

I do not care if it’s chalked or not chalked. I will show up and lift ether way. I started out doing this with never using chalk. I only use it because everyone else does and I am certainly not going to disadvantage myself in a contest. But to be honest,  I rarely use chalk or much chalk in training. Has served me well, so I don’t care either way. When I first started grip, I didn’t use chalk because I wanted to be able to lift things without having to add any external aid to lift it. I never used a suit it lift a weight and I saw chalk for grip as the same thing in my eyes as a purist. Kind of the same reason why I always full close a gripper. I see it as if I can’t close it all the way then can I really close it. This is purely my opinion as a purist. I would definitely not disadvantage myself and not use chalk in a contest and I would not fault anyone else for their tactics using chalk or closing grippers either. This is just my view.

I only use chalk when needed. Kinda like advil. I try to avoid chalk. Me and you think alike joe. 

 

 

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king crusher
Posted (edited)

I've never thought to put chalk ON the thing I'm using. I just put a light amount on my hands. 

Come to think of it I dont think chalk would even stick to my RT or hub. They are slick.

Do you guys chalk gripper handles? Do you find it helping?

 

 

Edited by king crusher

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Joseph Sullivan
17 minutes ago, KapMan said:

I only use chalk when needed. Kinda like advil. I try to avoid chalk. Me and you think alike joe. 

 

 

Thanks. In real life, if I have to lift something or show off in front of someone on the street or get in a confrontation on the street , I don’t have any chalk in my pocket . That’s how me sees it!

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Mike Rinderle
5 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Thanks. In real life, if I have to lift something or show off in front of someone on the street or get in a confrontation on the street , I don’t have any chalk in my pocket . That’s how me sees it!

I carry chalk wherever I go...

 

 

Just in case.

 

 

😂

 

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KapMan
4 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Thanks. In real life, if I have to lift something or show off in front of someone on the street or get in a confrontation on the street , I don’t have any chalk in my pocket . That’s how me sees it!

So when you go to pimp slap a fool. You dont powder your paws?  Thats savage. 

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Tom Flesher

It’s like pocket sand, but finer.

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Fist of Fury
3 hours ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

I do not care if it’s chalked or not chalked. I will show up and lift ether way. I started out doing this with never using chalk. I only use it because everyone else does and I am certainly not going to disadvantage myself in a contest. But to be honest,  I rarely use chalk or much chalk in training. Has served me well, so I don’t care either way. When I first started grip, I didn’t use chalk because I wanted to be able to lift things without having to add any external aid to lift it. I never used a suit it lift a weight and I saw chalk for grip as the same thing in my eyes as a purist. Kind of the same reason why I always full close a gripper. I see it as if I can’t close it all the way then can I really close it. This is purely my opinion as a purist. I would definitely not disadvantage myself and not use chalk in a contest and I would not fault anyone else for their tactics using chalk or closing grippers either. This is just my view.

I did as well when I first started and it was the biggest mistake I've ever done to be honest. Once I started to use chalk, my training results became way more consistent and it was much easier to measure progress. I also got less blisters.

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Hubgeezer

Chalk. On the "Rolling Thunder", I 100% agree with IronMind new rules. Why? Because personally, if I am in a contest, I detest chalk on the RT. I will even go into the bathroom and rinse my hands off to get every speck of chalk from my own hands.  Alexey would carry his own rag with him to wipe off the device, to the extent that people were suspecting he had some magic stuff on the cloth (he didn't, one time Odd inspected it, and one time I did). On the other hand, Mark Felix, who has some of the biggest hands in the sport, chalks the heck out of his hands. Chalk on the handle really annoys me. If I were to guess, I suspect the votes would be 50/50  for personal chalk preferences on the RT. 

I may be the only one on the planet who can pull more on the old "slick" IM Hubs (that did not hold a lick of chalk) than the textured chalky new ones. My hands themselves are addicted to chalk on the lift, but it doesn't seem to make any difference for me on the actual device. I think that is unusual.

FBBC vertical bars, Horne's Euro Pinch, none of which are IM implements...tremendous advantage with "seasoned" chalked up bars and plates. I doubt if hardly anyone disagrees on that. 

IM LBH, Block...I really don't have enough experience on those to weigh in. I "think" those are impacted more than some and less than others from chalk.

My guess is that the only IM record that is "safe" under the new rules is the Hub. I think the potential on the other gadgets is yet to be hit. 

The huge difference in preferences on the RT just goes to show how personal some of this stuff is. 

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