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Mike Rinderle

#4 (210.54 RGC) Silver Bullet

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Joseph Sullivan
47 minutes ago, Colin Ramsey said:

And to think, Tanner held on for almost 31 seconds......crazy

Mutants from the marvel universe have special powers! Just look how fast Peter Parker dismantled Macho Man Randy Savage!!😜

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Cannon
1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

 

Guarantee the strongest gripper guys all squeeze more poundage on the narrowest setting.

 

I have a Jamar that I take to powerlifting meets for the CPW booths. I can’t say the setting choices are the same as Luke’s (having never seen his) but on mine the 2nd setting is the best. The 1st setting is too tight. The 3rd and 4th settings are too wide. 

If the same person pulls on all 4 settings, I would expect them to land 2-3-1-4. 

Edit: To be clear, some guys that try it have a very strong grip. Two have essentially buried the needle. Guys like Matt Brouse have pulled on it. 2nd setting is always the best.  Also, again, I’m only relaying what I’ve personally seen on my dyno.  The narrowest setting on Lucas’s could be the same as the 2nd setting on mine. I would say the 2nd setting on mine is roughly what you would call “parallel” for a TSG gripper. 

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Hubgeezer
1 hour ago, Tommy J. said:

Guarantee the strongest gripper guys all squeeze more poundage on the narrowest setting.

 

There is a fellow on this forum, doubt if he has posted in years, Dale Harder. Dale is in his 80s, is a retired math teacher, has written a number of books, and published a "Strength and Speed" newsletter for 20 years. He is a statistical nut, his entire life is dedicated to oddball stats. He probably has measured more and a variety of strength athletes on his "Baseline" dynamometer than anyone any of us will ever know. Ask Clay Edgin about Dale, as he used to be pretty close with him. No doubt Clay's grip was measured more than once by Harder.

I was at his house once and my son, who had just started lifting weights, was around 24 years old, and gave a paltry squeeze on the Dyno. Seems like the preferred setting was the second closest. My kid was bummed, because his girlfriend had a great squeeze and was only about 10 kg less than his. Dale said "20%" did better on the most narrow setting. My kid then squeezed about 10 kgs. more on the lowest setting. Everyone was happy.

Sorry Tommy, I take Dale's opinion on the matter as Gospel in matters of the Baseline Dyno. 

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Cannon
9 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Sounds like this is on par with what im saying. Excellent, thank you!

As long as it was clear that I don’t know anything about Lucas’s. 

Overall my point was that the narrowest setting is NOT the best on mine even for gripper guys. 

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Mike Rinderle

Due to anotomical shortcomings, I've become really strong over the years on a more narrow setting.  😥

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Lucasraymond
10 hours ago, Cannon said:

I have a Jamar that I take to powerlifting meets for the CPW booths. I can’t say the setting choices are the same as Luke’s (having never seen his) but on mine the 2nd setting is the best. The 1st setting is too tight. The 3rd and 4th settings are too wide. 

If the same person pulls on all 4 settings, I would expect them to land 2-3-1-4. 

Edit: To be clear, some guys that try it have a very strong grip. Two have essentially buried the needle. Guys like Matt Brouse have pulled on it. 2nd setting is always the best.  Also, again, I’m only relaying what I’ve personally seen on my dyno.  The narrowest setting on Lucas’s could be the same as the 2nd setting on mine. I would say the 2nd setting on mine is roughly what you would call “parallel” for a TSG gripper. 

Jamar's are the gold standard for grip strength tests and most are all pretty standard with the narrowest setting being 1 3/8" or 1 1/2" and then going up 1/2" increments from there (found both widths online), the one we had at work and school were both the 1 1/2" width (I had them measure for me).  So the second setting is around 2" width in the center of the handles.  If you take a torsion spring gripper and close the handles together the average distance from top finger and distance between bottom fingers is going to be somewhere around that. Just because the bottom of the handles are ~1.5" wide the strongest fingers are going to be around probably in the 1 3/4" width and top top of the index finger will be around 2" (these are estimates as hand width with play a role in this). Which is why I say the strongest position is probably half way between position 1 and position 2.

At a narrow setting for average hand size (7.5") when you make a full fist some active insufficiency occurs (mild) which is why you can't close grippers worth shit when you try to flex your wrist and optimal is about 10-15 deg of wrist extension. Just like all muscles, there is an optimal length-tension relationship for maximal actin-myosin cross-bridging to occur to give you your angle of maximal strength. 

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Lucasraymond
22 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

So you have not tested anyone in gripsport? Or who trains any kind of grip?

 

also, with the people you are testing, who do not train grip, in what order of slots are you testing? If your testing the narrowest first, then moving to other slots afterward, its a high probability that the first squeeze, regardless of slot placement, will be the weakest squeeze

Yes I have tested myself...not with any sort of experimental method but mostly random. The dynamometer we had was only 200lbs which I generally was in the 190-200+ range RH and 170-180 LH (better silver bullet hand by a lot) at position 2. My best ever squeeze at position 1 was around 150 RH and position 3 was ~180RH. So havent tested a lot of gripsters, no but I have tested myself. 

Edited by Lucasraymond

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Hubgeezer
10 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Also, thanks to the mods for allowing me to argue my point.

so far all of my posts in this thread have been approved.

 

thank you!

Did someone hack Tommy's account? 👽

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Joseph Sullivan
39 minutes ago, Lucasraymond said:

Jamar's are the gold standard for grip strength tests and most are all pretty standard with the narrowest setting being 1 3/8" or 1 1/2" and then going up 1/2" increments from there (found both widths online), the one we had at work and school were both the 1 1/2" width (I had them measure for me).  So the second setting is around 2" width in the center of the handles.  If you take a torsion spring gripper and close the handles together the average distance from top finger and distance between bottom fingers is going to be somewhere around that. Just because the bottom of the handles are ~1.5" wide the strongest fingers are going to be around probably in the 1 3/4" width and top top of the index finger will be around 2" (these are estimates as hand width with play a role in this). Which is why I say the strongest position is probably half way between position 1 and position 2.

At a narrow setting for average hand size (7.5") when you make a full fist some active insufficiency occurs (mild) which is why you can't close grippers worth shit when you try to flex your wrist and optimal is about 10-15 deg of wrist extension. Just like all muscles, there is an optimal length-tension relationship for maximal actin-myosin cross-bridging to occur to give you your angle of maximal strength. 

This is word!

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Joseph Sullivan
3 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

C’mon guys. Lets be real here.. if what your saying is true, and the hand is stronger at a more open position, then why is setting grippers even a thing?

shouldn’t the strength you describe represent that all of us should technically be the bomb diggity of wide set closes?

I’ve had the same results as Luke has had, testing my patients with the Jamar. To the letter. It is like the mechanics of it are different because it’s not a nutcracker style close. It distributes the force differently. At least that is how it seems.

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bdckr
9 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

C’mon guys. Lets be real here.. if what your saying is true, and the hand is stronger at a more open position, then why is setting grippers even a thing?

shouldn’t the strength you describe represent that all of us should technically be the bomb diggity of wide set closes?

It sounds like they're saying that grip strength increases as the fingers get closer to the palm but only to a point.  Then strength decreases.

@Lucasraymond is saying that that point is very close to the distance of a closed gripper, which corresponds to the 2nd  setting of a Jamar.

Edited by bdckr

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Eric Roussin

I haven’t tested hundreds of people, but the experienced grip guys who have tried my Jamar dynamometer (e.g. me, Dan Fleming, Justin Major) all do better at the second setting.

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Climber028
28 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

C’mon guys. Lets be real here.. if what your saying is true, and the hand is stronger at a more open position, then why is setting grippers even a thing?

shouldn’t the strength you describe represent that all of us should technically be the bomb diggity of wide set closes?

It's not linear. It follows a bell curve. There's a point of maximum strength where the hand is almost closed and then strength decreases in both directions. You can't squeeze a 5 inch block very hard, and you can't squeeze a pencil very hard.

Edited by Climber028
Typo
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Cannon
18 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

C’mon guys. Lets be real here.. if what your saying is true, and the hand is stronger at a more open position, then why is setting grippers even a thing?

shouldn’t the strength you describe represent that all of us should technically be the bomb diggity of wide set closes?

The hand is reasonably “not closed tight” when you’re crushing a gripper.  That’s why I think people register higher on the dyno in the “2” position.  For most people, your fingers don’t come around enough to even touch the palm. 

For example, I think I could hold on to a 1-1/2” rope better than a 1/2” rope”  

And I am being real.  I’m just relaying what really happens on a real dyno with hundreds of real people.  The narrowest setting is not the best. 

 

 

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Climber028

Man, that's a real unfortunate typo

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king crusher

I would guess a small hand may do better on the closer setting and a larger hand would do better on the 2nd setting. And because most people in grip have a bit bigger hand,  more people do better on the second setting.  

 

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Joseph Sullivan
27 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

It's not linear. It follows a bell curve. There's a point of maximum strength where the hand is almost closed and then strength decreases in both directions. You can't squeeze a 5 inch block very hard, and you can't squeeze a pencil very hard.

Could not have said it better. The mechanical advantage gets hindered at the Extreme end of the spectrum 

Edited by Joseph Sullivan

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wobbler

I can do a few lbs more at the narrowest setting than the 2nd, after messing around with how it's positioned in my hand. A "deep set gripper position" with the palm side handle further up towards your fingers won't necessarily get you a better number than with it closer to your thumb in more of a TNS gripper position. And if you really crank down with your thumb that helps.

It's hard not to treat a dyno like a gripper, but since it doesn't move you really don't need to.

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Mike Rinderle
40 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

It's not linear. It follows a bell curve. There's a point of maximum strength where the hand is almost closed and then strength decreases in both directions. You can't squeeze a 5 inch block very hard, and you can't squeeze a pencil very hard.

I can squeeze a 5" block pretty damn hard.  Just sayin.  

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Mike Rinderle

On another note, has anyone born before November 17, 1967 (a day which will live in infamy) ever done a #4 SB hold before?

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Joseph Sullivan
5 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

On another note, has anyone born before November 17, 1967 (a day which will live in infamy) ever done a #4 SB hold before?

That’s a good quess chee own!

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Mike Rinderle

I'm guessing Odd has.  Never mind.  😂

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WestSlope
7 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

I'm guessing Odd has.  Never mind.  😂

Odd doesn't participate in the SB part of his comps. Maybe he used to?

I bet Mike Thomas has or could given a lighter #4. I wonder if Steve Gardener (#4 closer I think) has tried.

Anyway. One second is pretty good but, cmon, get at least 3 at the comp. A bunch of oldsters are rooting for you...

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Joseph Sullivan
9 minutes ago, WestSlope said:

Odd doesn't participate in the SB part of his comps. Maybe he used to?

I bet Mike Thomas has or could given a lighter #4. I wonder if Steve Gardener (#4 closer I think) has tried.

Anyway. One second is pretty good but, cmon, get at least 3 at the comp. A bunch of oldsters are rooting for you...

Odd has not clamped on a #4 silver bullet, to the best of my knowledge. I think he uses a #3 for it. I also agree that @Kluv#0 is capable of clamping the bullet on a light #4, no doubt. Mike is as strong as me on most thick bar items , and I have clamped a #4 for a few seconds on the bullet . I think he can too.

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Mike Rinderle
2 hours ago, WestSlope said:

Odd doesn't participate in the SB part of his comps. Maybe he used to?

I bet Mike Thomas has or could given a lighter #4. I wonder if Steve Gardener (#4 closer I think) has tried.

Anyway. One second is pretty good but, cmon, get at least 3 at the comp. A bunch of oldsters are rooting for you...

Haha 3 is overkill.  Same points for 1-5 seconds.  No need to wear myself out for the rest of the comp.  Once I hit one, if I can get 1, that bullet is on it's way to the floor.  Because I ain't getting 6.  😂

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