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Mike Rinderle

#4 (210.54 RGC) Silver Bullet

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Mike Rinderle

4th time trying a silver bullet and I don't train grippers, so plenty of room for improvement.  This is Jedd's 210.54 lb #4.  Feels like a damn brick so just happy to get any kind of hold with it.  Hopefully I can get a couple seconds with whatever #4 Ironmind sends for the contest next Saturday. 

 

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Joseph Sullivan

Wow, Mike! That’s awesome. Just setting the number 4 is something most will never do.

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Mike Rinderle
34 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Wow, Mike! That’s awesome. Just setting the number 4 is something most will never do.

Thanks Joe!  Will be interesting to see how stout the #4 is from Ironmind. 

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Joseph Sullivan
51 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Thanks Joe!  Will be interesting to see how stout the #4 is from Ironmind. 

 

51 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Thanks Joe!  Will be interesting to see how stout the #4 is from Ironmind. 

Yea man. The one I have is rated at 217. 

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Mike Rinderle
24 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

 

Yea man. The one I have is rated at 217. 

That would take some serious contest adrenaline and a set of squats to get any kind of hold on for me.  Lol

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Mike Rinderle

Anybody know what most of the new #4s are rating at these days?

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Cannon
On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 7:19 PM, Mike Rinderle said:

Anybody know what most of the new #4s are rating at these days?

The inventory I've been moving through is consistently 210 to 217.  Probably with most landing 214 to 216.  I've rated a much higher number of CoC4s in the past couple months for some reason.

 

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Mike Rinderle
1 minute ago, Cannon said:

The inventory I've been moving through is consistently 210 to 217.  Probably with most landing 214 to 216.  I've rated a much higher number of CoC4s in the past couple months for some reason.

 

Thanks Matt.  With contest adrenaline and 3 or 4 red bulls I may be able to get a second or two.  🤣

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Cannon
2 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

Thanks Matt.  With contest adrenaline and 3 or 4 red bulls I may be able to get a second or two.  🤣

I'm not actually sure this is interesting, but I just put a 215 rated #4 in my rating rig and closed it down to an actual silver bullet and that took 145lbs.  Then figure you have to add some additional force to keep the weight hanging there.... This kind of critical thinking sometimes fools me, but I would think that added pressure would only need to equal the 2.5k weight.  So let's call it 151 to be safe. 

I bet the time you can hold a coin between the handles of an average #3 would match your #4 silver bullet time pretty closely.   

Tanner should try this out with an average #3.  I bet he gets ~30 secs.  @Boulderbrew

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Cannon

The more I think about this, i'm sure it's just not the same.  The comparison to a #3 is bad, I mean. 

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Climber028
20 minutes ago, Cannon said:

I'm not actually sure this is interesting, but I just put a 215 rated #4 in my rating rig and closed it down to an actual silver bullet and that took 145lbs.  Then figure you have to add some additional force to keep the weight hanging there.... This kind of critical thinking sometimes fools me, but I would think that added pressure would only need to equal the 2.5k weight.  So let's call it 151 to be safe. 

I bet the time you can hold a coin between the handles of an average #3 would match your #4 silver bullet time pretty closely.   

Tanner should try this out with an average #3.  I bet he gets ~30 secs.  @Boulderbrew

Less than 2.5k. Since the silver bullet and the gripper handles are knurled the coefficient of friction is going to be greater than 1. It might only add 1-1.5k to the required force. Obviously some cosine error will add uncertainty to this but it's a decent ballpark figure

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Mike Rinderle
17 minutes ago, Cannon said:

The more I think about this, i'm sure it's just not the same.  The comparison to a #3 is bad, I mean. 

#4 SB certainly felt way harder than holding a #3 closed.  

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Fist of Fury
53 minutes ago, Cannon said:

I'm not actually sure this is interesting, but I just put a 215 rated #4 in my rating rig and closed it down to an actual silver bullet and that took 145lbs.  Then figure you have to add some additional force to keep the weight hanging there.... This kind of critical thinking sometimes fools me, but I would think that added pressure would only need to equal the 2.5k weight.  So let's call it 151 to be safe. 

I bet the time you can hold a coin between the handles of an average #3 would match your #4 silver bullet time pretty closely.   

Tanner should try this out with an average #3.  I bet he gets ~30 secs.  @Boulderbrew

The problem is the setting. A #4 is much harder from the start than a #3 is. That is also the reason why people with great open hand strength can be great at SB but not equally great at actually closing grippers. Because they can set the gripper much easier. I'm 100% sure I can do coin holds with pretty much any #3 and I'm also sure I can't set a #4.

Only setting a #4 is a great feat of strength, so good job Mike 💪

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Mike Rinderle
36 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Even if Matts findings are 100% applicable, and we go ahead and assume that all is required to hold a SB with a #4 actually only equals holding 150’ish lbs at parallel, it still would represent that most cannot hold 150’ish pounds around a SB like Tanner can.

so, these findings take nothing from Tanner. Which indeed make them interesting.

Yea but can he do a #4 micro hold after playing an intense game of Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots with his 3 yo?  

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Joseph Sullivan
37 minutes ago, Mike Rinderle said:

#4 SB certainly felt way harder than holding a #3 closed.  

Definitely agree with you Mike, having done a #4 SB myself . No way did it feel like the poundage  that  Matt is describing. I can shut 153 for a full close Easy. The #4 felt like a brick on that bullet 

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Climber028

Is everybody forgetting range of motion?  This is like comparing a rack pull to a deadlift.  Your hands aren't at the strongest position when the gripper is fully closed. 

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Cannon
14 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Definitely agree with you Mike, having done a #4 SB myself . No way did it feel like the poundage  that  Matt is describing. I can shut 153 for a full close Easy. The #4 felt like a brick on that bullet 

Yeah I agree with Mike too. The rating was what it was, but it’s not comparable to a #3. Too much about the movements and the grippers are different. 

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Joseph Sullivan
16 minutes ago, Cannon said:

Yeah I agree with Mike too. The rating was what it was, but it’s not comparable to a #3. Too much about the movements and the grippers are different. 

Yea. The set alone is insane. Felt like bending a piece of rebar.

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Mike Rinderle
1 hour ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

Yea. The set alone is insane. Felt like bending a piece of rebar.

Strangely enough... I've done both.  😂

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Boulderbrew
4 hours ago, Cannon said:

Tanner should try this out with an average #3.  I bet he gets ~30 secs.  @Boulderbrew

I’ll give it a try, you are probably right. One other thing to consider is that when the gripper is nearly closed, my thumb is wayyy wrapped over the first knuckle on my middle finger which gives me more power 

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Mike Rinderle
23 minutes ago, Boulderbrew said:

I’ll give it a try, you are probably right. One other thing to consider is that when the gripper is nearly closed, my thumb is wayyy wrapped over the first knuckle on my middle finger which gives me more power 

Same on the thumb.  Huge difference.   10-15 lbs more than no thumb.

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Cannon

Yeah I agree all around. The rating is what it is. That’s objective. But I think there is more at work here for the difficulty of the #4 SB hold. I was shooting from the hip on the #3 coin hold comparison and it’s probably not going to hold water. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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Lucasraymond
23 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

No. The crush is stronger the closer the fingers get to the palms.

easily tested with a baseline. The widths on a baseline are adjustable. You’ll get higher poundages when squeezing on the narrowest setting.

That is 100% incorrect...generally on a 5 position Jamar dyno the 2 spot (most of the time) or 3rd are the highest for people. There is a huge bell curve with dynamometer ratings where slot 1 and 4 are generally fairly close and 2/3 being significantly higher and the widest position being the lowest. 

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Lucasraymond

The roughly 200-300 ppl I have tested throughout my physical therapy career and all the experimentally studies Ive read with the isometric dynamometers fall under what I said above. Of the people I have tested the narrowest setting has never been the highest and I would be willing to bet that the people in gripsport that have used an isometric that the 2nd position is there strongest not the first position. There a chance that someone with really small hands would have that be the case, yes but 95% of the time it will not be the narrowest setting and that would be with people having < 7" hand length not any of the people that we are referencing that closing these heavy grippers.  All of the scientific data that I have seen and with personal experience using the "gold standard" for hand dyno position 1 if I remember correctly is almost 20% less than position 2 (on average) The numbers that are in my head from studies I remember are like position 2 (70%), position 3 (25%) and position 1 (5%) as far as highest grip strength. 

The mechanics and technique of closing torsion spring grippers are much different than an isometric grip test and the way people train is a lot different. Tanner comes from rock climbing which is much more endurance based vs closing a heavy gripper which is less than 5 seconds of force and the quality of the thumb lock will also come into play. Is that the reason, not sure on that but I can tell you if you tested 100 people with a hand dyno without telling them why you are testing; position 2 will be the highest by a long shot and if you wanted to take into account hand size, thumb length, hand thickness, etc that would also be something to add to it to determine the variables. 

The sizes are usually a 1/2" apart on a Jamar but I think doing 1/4" increments from 1.5" ( position 1), 1.75", 2" (2), 2.25", and 2.5" (3) would get you closer to an optimal width for highest grip strength rating. 

Edited by Lucasraymond
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Colin Ramsey

And to think, Tanner held on for almost 31 seconds......crazy

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