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Tommy J.

Martins Licis Saxon WR

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Amy
2 hours ago, bencrush said:

You heard this peep (from 5 years ago) the very next day after Randall Strossen posted it.  The thread was closed.  Otherwise there might've been more discussion on YOUR LIFT, which I do agree was and still is a very significant poundage double overhand on the Axle. 

 

"My fellow grip (wo)men, do you remember this lift: (link to the lift...)

I ran into this after that organizer had assured me he understood the rules and would officiate according to them. Now, I'm not saying that this one video is the final word on what this lift actually looked like and I certainly would never point the finger at a lifter when a dubious lift is passed, but I'd say no matter how funky a one-video review can be, this one makes Mike's lift look pretty sweet." -Randall Strossen 1-30-2014

 

"Getting my lift thrown under the bus by Dr. Strossen was truly a highlight of my day and made me laugh a little. At the time of my lift Ironmind wasn't recognizing women's lifts on this event. So he got to ignore or accept my lift. He chose to ignore it and wait until the lift was done under better conditions in San Jose for Ironmind to accept it. I was fine with that because the next time I did it, it was heavier and without question. I do believe the lift before my questionable one in the vid would have been a North American Grip Sport world record and maybe tied Elizabeth's record at that time. i cannot remember if hers was on an IM axle." -Amy 1-31-2014

I am honored that you're taking time to investigate and try to do whatever it is you are attempting. That's commitment. Thank you! I completely forgot some of the history and appreciate the refresher course. That's solid information that is truly part of the evolution of how the women Ironmind records came to be. I forgot how much back and forth between different ends of grip there was to establish what exactly the record was with whom at the time. It was quite fragmented if I recall correctly. 

Also, yes, thank you for quoting my comments from a year and a half after the lift when I was thrown under the bus by Randall to illustrate something I am unclear of? That I am forgetful? Dishonest? Integrity in question? What exactly?  

The one thing that's obvious is that at 46 my mind isn't as sharp as it was even at 39. Seven years ago might as well have been thirty years ago my life is so consumed with commitments and priorities aside from grip.  So, yes! YOU ARE CORRECT! CONGRATS!!! I did hear a peep that would indicate controversy from Randall and laughed it off. I went on with my day dismissing it as political riff between the branches of grip which felt pretty significant at the time crossing between promoters/organizations then went back to happily living in the middle of the quirks. 

I  must have had a private conversation with leadership to pass that info on or maybe Randall shared it directly with me but my quoted comments don't give me the impression I spoke with him directly about that lift. (Must add in new disclaimer *THAT I RECALL* in case there's a text or email or something that you've uncovered to indicate otherwise). And then I crushed all the world records and heard lotsa PEEPS about my socks and no shoes, FAR more than the grip sport lift and then went on and reset that record again and then I rolled my eyes and laughed it off and went back to happily living in the middle of the quirks while the others point fingers and argue without result.   

My point remains the same. I had no idea there was a significant issue and discussions on the boards regarding that lift. Had I known, I would have loved to respond. Not a year and a half later when I obviously missed my cue.  🙄 And my other point remains the same...private conversations go much further with problem solving a concern rather than putting volunteers on blast in a public manner. It's tacky at best. 

 

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Amy
16 hours ago, Hubgeezer said:

. Perhaps her point was there are more than a couple bad judges at contests. 

 

My point was directed at the negative comments that basically Odd and Ironmind as the only offenders of bad calls. Bad calls happen in ANY organization.

The comments about the judges really don't sit well with me. Those guys spend at least 12 hours a day volunteering their own time for the athletes and sport for each of those competitions. Us ladies felt so bad for all the work they had to do with limited help after one of the FitExpos, we all stayed after to help them load the truck and clean up. Actually, many of us have done that after quite a few strongman and grip comps because any competition is so much bigger than just one person or athlete. 

Having constructive conversations offering solutions is one thing. There will be unintended consequences from all this and it starts with volunteers and judging. There are viable solutions and issues that need to be addressed through leadership but the one thing I like about the strongman rule is it sets the tone to be respectful to the judges and to support them, in good times and bad. Without them, we all lose.

Edited by Amy
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Tommy J.

Bad judges dont get victim status just because they volunteer. I guarantee if i judged a comp for free and made bad calls, not a single person here would be saying “but he volunteered his time.. give him some slack.”

thats a sympathetic angle that should be skipped. Its no different from me saying a judge is a bad one, then somebody responds with “but he’s a nice guy...” like it somehow changes the fact that he’s a shitty judge.

so what?.. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

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Amy
21 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Are you upset that no one made a stink about your record like what happened with Mikes?

I would chalk that up as a good thing..? 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

And you should ask to have it removed if you havent already.

 

 

Nope, not upset at all.  I posted it to illustrate a point explained in a couple responses.

Of course I did, first thing this am. I hesitate even needing to point that out, especially as a woman who rejects being told what I "should" do by anyone other than my mother and I generally cringe when she tells me what to do anyway. It was replaced with my token lift from last month's competition. Those who actually even cared woulda been eye balling that list all day long waiting and wondering.

 

 

Edited by Amy
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Tommy J.
29 minutes ago, Amy said:

Nope, not upset at all.  I posted it to illustrate a point explained in a couple responses.

Of course I did, first thing this am. I hesitate even needing to point that out, especially as a woman who rejects being told what I "should" do by anyone other than my mother and I generally cringe when she tells me what to do anyway. It was replaced with my token lift from last month's competition. Those who actually even cared woulda been eye balling that list all day long waiting and wondering.

 

 

What does that have to do with it?

if i said the same, id be accused of having a patriarch mentality.

 

lets put it in writing to further illustrate.

”especially as a man, who rejects being told what to do”

uh oh.. yeah, yikes huh? 🧐

 

In a world where so many claim that there is no gender, then by that same logic, why does your gender matter?

 

same thing with the last election. I found it hilariously contradictory that so many were so adamant that gender doesnt matter. But at the same time swore up and down that we needed a woman president.

lol! If genders dont matter, then why do we need a woman president?

 

but, kudos that you did the right thing. Respects on the prompt integrity of your lift.

 

and the reason i have a hard time caring about womens records is through no fault of my own. Women have allowed men to compete with them in various sports as of late. Which is arguably unfair for only the ladies. So if I'm to look at a dudes record, then I'd prefer to do it on the same list. Mainly for streamline reaons.

but if that current trend keeps up, eventually the ladies wont even have their own recognition. It will all be one list. And good luck attaining WRs once that happens. Which i argue that at some point will encourage women to not even compete. Smh. But if i had it my way, the ladies records would indeed have more meaning, and no dudes would be able to compete with them.

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Cannon

Just a general redirect. Let’s keep it about grip strength.  Thanks all :)

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Amy
2 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Bad judges dont get victim status just because they volunteer. I guarantee if i judged a comp for free and made bad calls, not a single person here would be saying “but he volunteered his time.. give him some slack.”

thats a sympathetic angle that should be skipped. Its no different from me saying a judge is a bad one, then somebody responds with “but he’s a nice guy...” like it somehow changes the fact that he’s a shitty judge.

so what?.. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

Nobody claimed victim status. I can’t help your tendency to read and twist things into something other than what’s posted as also exemplified in your other post this evening, but I’ll explain one more time....that is in reference to the personal attacks and comments posted earlier in the thread about the judges. I didn’t defend any bad calls, rather stated there are better ways to solve problems and concerns than finger pointing and calling people out like it was handled.  Obviously we have different opinions on standards of behavior on a forum.

You should lighten up. 🤣🙄 

Edited by Amy

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Tommy J.
21 minutes ago, Amy said:

Nobody claimed victim status. I can’t help your tendency to read and twist things into something other than what’s posted as also exemplified in your other post this evening, but I’ll explain one more time....that is in reference to the personal attacks and comments posted earlier in the thread about the judges. I didn’t defend any bad calls, rather stated there are better ways to solve problems and concerns than finger pointing and calling people out like it was handled.  Obviously we have different opinions on standards of behavior on a forum.

You should lighten up. 🤣🙄 

Possibly. But i remain of the opinion that nice guys finish last.

 

i think we are somewhat on the same page then. Albeit i had some difficulties interpreting your posts initially. My apologies for that. However, the root of this issue remains to be incompetent judging. And there really is no pc way of addressing it. Not if we stay objective about it.

 

btw, i am a fan. I will be rooting for you to take the axle record back. USA!

Edited by Tommy J.
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climber511

After reading this whole thread (more than once) it appears the easiest solution might be not to have a live judge but to do nothing but judge lifts after the fact on video.  Years ago there might be a still picture of a lift in a magazine but that was all - I imagine there were as many questionable calls then as now - the difference being no video for others to critique after the fact.  The best answer is obviously perfect judges but that isn't going to happen - especially with untrained - uncertified - unpaid judges with no training - which as far as I know do not exist in either of the grip sports or Strongman.  I know Olympic lifting does have trained judges which must be used in higher level competitions - I do not know anything about Powerlifting and judges training.  

I'm only partly kidding about no live judge.  For now I would propose a three judge panel with 2 white lights needed for passage at all grip contests and there should be video for the judges to review on the spot as needed.

Edited by climber511
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KapMan
6 minutes ago, climber511 said:

After reading this whole thread (more than once) it appears the easiest solution might be not to have a live judge but to do nothing but judge lifts after the fact on video.  Years ago there might be a still picture of a lift in a magazine but that was all - I imagine there were as many questionable calls then as now - the difference being no video for others to critique after the fact.  The best answer is obviously perfect judges but that isn't going to happen - especially with untrained - uncertified - unpaid judges with no training - which as far as I know do not exist in either of the grip sports or Strongman.  I know Olympic lifting does have trained judges which must be used in higher level competitions - I do not know anything about Powerlifting and judges training.  

I'm only partly kidding about no live judge.  For now I would propose a three judge panel with 2 white lights needed for passage at all grip contests and there should be video for the judges to review on the spot as needed.

Gripstant replay. I like it. 

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Tommy J.

 

 

this scene comes to mind when i think of how to handle bad judging. 

 

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Mike Rinderle

I know at NAGS and other contests I've been to, video replay was used on extremely close calls.  Not saying that should be the norm, but there is a precedent for it.  Honestly though, I've competed in 20-30 comps and judged too.  I've never ever seen a lift even close to Amy's or Martin's get a white light.  If anything, the judging has been uber strict, which is the way it should be.

The last thing any competitor wants, is to have a lift counted that would be questioned later.  Heck, after all the sniping about the Crusher for KK2018, I asked that my 187.35 not be counted and took a zero.  Even though, in my opinion, everything was completely legit; I didn't want any number next to my name that someone would question. 

I think bad calls like the ones hilighted in this thread are pretty few and far between. 

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Amy
21 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

Possibly. But i remain of the opinion that nice guys finish last.

 

i think we are somewhat on the same page then. Albeit i had some difficulties interpreting your posts initially. My apologies for that. However, the root of this issue remains to be incompetent judging. And there really is no pc way of addressing it. Not if we stay objective about it.

 

btw, i am a fan. I will be rooting for you to take the axle record back. USA!

In my book nice guys always finish first! 

Thank you, I appreciate everything you said. Very much so. I have high hopes for my axle, just hoping my best days aren't behind me.

Group hug? 😉

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Chez

 

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Hubgeezer
10 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

 

 

this scene comes to mind when i think of how to handle bad judging. 

 

Tommy, this video is better. You have to hang in there until the last two seconds. You'll never look at the Shame Nun the same:

 

 

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Tommy J.
2 hours ago, Amy said:

In my book nice guys always finish first! 

Thank you, I appreciate everything you said. Very much so. I have high hopes for my axle, just hoping my best days aren't behind me.

Group hug? 😉

Not quite. Ive got a reputation i need to uphold. Asshole, remember? 😎

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Tommy J.

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Alawadhi
On 2/5/2019 at 5:16 PM, Tommy J. said:

Lol! Not gonna lie.. comparing Bryan to Gerome and claiming any amount of unfairness Bryan receives compared to Gerome is hilarious. Should i start by pointing out that Bryan has the advantage of being able to grab the cereal box off the top of the fridge? or the advantage of being able to nearly overlap his fingers on an axle lift? Where Gerome does not..

making points like these can be easily swatted down by simply stating physical differences that cannot be changed. For example, the size of Bryans hands compared to what Geromes are. Since thats gonna be the biggest factor with regards to grip performances between the two. What crutch will be given to smaller hands? Because, face it, Bryan has way more hand material than Gerome does to get a purchase on something.

i say “crutch”, because that is exactly what you described a crossbar lift as.. nothing more than a crutch in an attempt to create “fairness” where you (and who ever else) feel it should be had, due to physical differences between two competitors. And i argue back with- if your not gonna address a way to remedy hand size (which is arguably the biggest actual physical advantage, or lack there of between competitors in this sport) then why bother with something as frivolous as a crossbar rule?

You are correct. But to be fair to Bryan he doesn't have very strong hands because he has large hands. My handsize and his is almost the same. Width maybe a tad wider. One MM or so. Index and middle finger goes to him by few MM's. Ring and pinkie goes to me by few MM's. Thumb I'll give him an MM or two.Yes he is very tall but he is very strong because he trains hard.

On 2/3/2019 at 11:17 PM, Mateus said:

I didn't now Santa is in grip sport. It is true about the collars. This can make 10kg. loosen collars is way more easy to lift the axle. Who is controlling the collars or who does the collars make a good hold. Sorry for my english, i hope you know what i mean.

I know Paul Savage from youtube. His wife is insane strong an Paul has closed a number 4 with credit card. Paul, why is your wife not at the arnold? She was invited. she can win.

Mateus

What?!

On 2/4/2019 at 5:39 AM, Mikael Siversson said:

We tightened the collars real good during the LGC competitions and people were complaining it felt heavy lol. Kalle Lane, who btw never complains about anything while competing, pulled 190kg in a comp in California but failed with 180kg at the 2018 LGC competition where I was making sure everything was really tight. The axle is at its most difficult if you also use high quality certified steel plates (full size) as they wont spin against each other.

I really like your judging Mikael! Very strict and fair.

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Tommy J.
8 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

You are correct. But to be fair to Bryan he doesn't have very strong hands because he has large hands. My handsize and his is almost the same. Width maybe a tad wider. One MM or so. Index and middle finger goes to him by few MM's. Ring and pinkie goes to me by few MM's. Thumb I'll give him an MM or two.Yes he is very tall but he is very strong because he trains hard.

What?!

I really like your judging Mikael! Very strict and fair.

Never said that. To be clear, im saying that Gerome will never lift what Bryan does on thickbar due to the difference in hand size. Only Gerome could prove that untrue. But it will never happen. Too much hand size difference.

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climber511

What a very strange thread this is 

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Tommy J.
4 hours ago, climber511 said:

What a very strange thread this is 

Thats what happens when the original post asks what everyone “thinks”

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