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Tommy J.

Martins Licis Saxon WR

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Tommy J.

Martins Saxon lift @27:20

 

So is this the new Saxon WR?

thoughts on the lift?

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Squeezus

I watched at quarter speed a few times. I would call downward motion before "down" call. Can't tell from this angle, but the lockout looks questionable as well. This is why competition lifts to lockout suck.

Edited by Squeezus
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Tommy J.
Just now, Squeezus said:

Lift is at 27:21. I watched at quarter speed a few times. I would call downward motion before "down" call. Can't tell from this angle, but the lockout looks questionable as well. This is why competition lifts to lockout suck.

Agreed. I wouldnt have passed it. And i would consider myself a leniant judge on grip lifts. Im okay with the implement appearing to be sliding out of the hands after a lockout as long as they can hang onto it for my down call, and to the floor. But no lockout on a lift that rules state “must be to lockout” is a no go for me.

 

i posted the time of the lift above the vid also homie.

 

and hey, on a side note, are you sending some of those pimp shirts to Adam, Tanner, and myself for besting the hub record with a freestyle grip? 😎

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Squeezus
4 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Agreed. I wouldnt have passed it. And i would consider myself a leniant judge on grip lifts. Im okay with the implement appearing to be sliding out of the hands after a lockout as long as they can hang onto it for my down call, and to the floor. But no lockout on a lift that rules state “must be to lockout” is a no go for me.

 

i posted the time of the lift above the vid also homie.

 

and hey, on a side note, are you sending some of those pimp shirts to Adam, Tanner, and myself for besting the hub record with a freestyle grip? 😎

Sorry, didn't see the time because I am illiterate.

I started that contest over a year and a half ago and thought it was pretty much settled, but I can send a shirt and the half off dub-hub coupon to whomever broke the record first.

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Tommy J.
23 minutes ago, Squeezus said:

Sorry, didn't see the time because I am illiterate.

I started that contest over a year and a half ago and thought it was pretty much settled, but I can send a shirt and the half off dub-hub coupon to whomever broke the record first.

Sorry for the late reply on the challenge.. Tanner mentioned it at practice a few weeks back then sent me the link to the thread. 

 

So in the comp i was first to hit 100, then Adam, then Tanner. Then Tanner took it up to 105.

 

but, Adam was first ever to pull over the WR the Sunday before our comp. so its Adams shirt and Dub Hub coupon, fasho

 

and since i remain overly overzealous over over and over, im gonna go ahead and push it.. 😬 i say Adam and Tanner both get shirts and coupons. Since Adam was first ever to pull more than the WR, and then Tanner took it up a notch at the comp.

 

and lastly, i think your idea to freestyle the hub is an excellent idea. And acts as a great way to reignite more interest in the hub. Im even betting Randy goes for it. And while it might be a long shot to hope, i hope he even decides to make a seperate records list for the freestyle hub.

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David_wigren

I wouldn’t have passed it. But it’s still heaps and bounds better than the current axle WR.

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acorn

Based on the video I would not have passed that.

- Aaron

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king crusher

Yeah I just watched the video. He did not fully lock out and looks like he was losing it on the way down.

 

With that said, it was 125 kilos and the current WR is 114. I'd say he has that easily.  

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Tommy J.
5 hours ago, David_wigren said:

I wouldn’t have passed it. But it’s still heaps and bounds better than the current axle WR.

Id say they are equal in terms of convincingness. Both are terrible WR lifts.

 

my opinion on video angles is, if there is a single angle that it doesnt look good from, its not good. A good lockout deadlift looks great from every angle. This one does not.

 

crushers logic has been my logic for years on the Axle WR. Yeah it was sloppy. But so far ahead of the next competitor that im not totally devastated.

 

either way, lift looked ugly.

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Chez

Strong as hell but I wouldn't have passed that either. They need stricter judging at these events. Especially for record lifts. 

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Stephen Ruby
14 hours ago, Squeezus said:

This is why competition lifts to lockout suck.

I absolutely agree with this. Its much easier to judge a lift when you have a predetermined height to hit. Martin is one of the strongest men in the world but I wouldn't be proud to be a world record holder with that lift. I would prefer to hold a record where there is no question. 

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Tommy J.

The bummer of this is, the lifter really isnt in control of questionable judging. But, imo, i think if Burke or Licis came forward and asked for the lifts to not be counted and the records to be removed, their request would be honored. And they are the only ones i think could make that call other than the promoters or judges.

Hypothetically speaking, i suspect that few people would actually protest their own bad record they got credit for tho. Even here where everyone is seemingly strict about lifts. I have no examples in grip other than Mike and Martins WR lifts tho. 

So i guess we’ll find out if it ever happens to anyone here.

i dont want to sit and act like Mike or Martins have bad integrity over this. But i whole heartedly believe that if they themself protested the call, the records would no doubt get pulled.

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Tommy J.

https://youtu.be/sL9z1wv5XeI

 

heres another angle for those that need multiple to make a decision.

as i said above, a good lift will look good from nearly any angle, and a bad one will look bad from nearly any angle that most would be filming from.

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Tommy J.
5 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

https://youtu.be/sL9z1wv5XeI

 

heres another angle for those that need multiple to make a decision.

as i said above, a good lift will look good from nearly any angle, and a bad one will look bad from nearly any angle that most would be filming from.

Covered this base so no one tries to come at me with something totally ridiculous like an angle from overhead or something that like no one would be reasonably filming a lift from.

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David_wigren
2 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

https://youtu.be/sL9z1wv5XeI

 

heres another angle for those that need multiple to make a decision.

as i said above, a good lift will look good from nearly any angle, and a bad one will look bad from nearly any angle that most would be filming from.

Sounds like it was supposed to be 120 kg on the bar and they accidentally put 125 kg. I think if they had put 120 kg as they were supposed to, the lift would’ve still been a WR and probably alot cleaner.

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Tommy J.
1 hour ago, David_wigren said:

Sounds like it was supposed to be 120 kg on the bar and they accidentally put 125 kg. I think if they had put 120 kg as they were supposed to, the lift would’ve still been a WR and probably alot cleaner.

Yes, same with Burke on the axle WR in a way. Burkes weight wasnt wrong like in Martins case, but even if Burkes bad call record was deleted, his prior record (which was clean) would still be the record. Non point.

but, that doesnt mean we should give stuff like this a pass.

Gil mentioned in another thread that the guy running his mouth beside the camera during Odds comp is what makes sports like this look like a joke and hinders growth.. and while his statement certainly has some substance, i would argue that calls like the one above are what makes these sports look like a joke. I say that bad reffing like this may be what encourages people to call us grip homos in the middle of a big comp. why would anyone take us serious?

anyone disagree? This is the 2nd time a strongmans grip record (or the judging of, rather) has been in question by our community. At what point does this begin to piss people off?

i dont like how the sport is looking right now. This whole event has me bent out of shape. Between the mouth runner off camera, and the bad judging, what the hell is going on here??? What a cluster.

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Lucasraymond

I've been in contest with Odd being a judge and seen him call multiple quick down calls for certain competitors while I lifted on the pinch block and he started a downward hand motion so I started my lowering but he re-raised his hand saying it wasn't a down call. When I lift I don't hear shit so I go based on visual downward hand motion. But as multiple people have discussed they (IM) needs to go to a lift height indicator or else this shit will continue to happen with WR lifts. 

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Tommy J.

Is a lockout really that complicated though? Im somewhat taken back at the numerous folks who have inability to interpret a lockout. It really isnt that hard to judge. 

I think more what is happening is the unwillingness to hurt someones feelings and inform them in front of everyone that “no sir. That lift was NOT good.”

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Climber028
21 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Is a lockout really that complicated though? Im somewhat taken back at the numerous folks who have inability to interpret a lockout. It really isnt that hard to judge. 

I think more what is happening is the unwillingness to hurt someones feelings and inform them in front of everyone that “no sir. That lift was NOT good.”

A lockout isn't 100% objective,  and lifting to a bar is.

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Tommy J.
31 minutes ago, Climber028 said:

A lockout isn't 100% objective,  and lifting to a bar is.

Ah, i see where this is going.

 

so is it acceptable if i max with 405 on the bench only to a lower mounted crossbar instead of full lockout? Since that would be a more objective way of determining how much i can “bench”? Vs how much i can actually lock out? Because if thats the case ill go load the bar up and bounce it a couple inches off my chest and call it mission accomplished.

oh but wait, i bet thats “different”, huh?

what about on a squat?

what about an overhead press?

what about a simple pull up?

why is it so difficult for everyone to understand standing up erect, but yet at the same time are form critique messiahs on every other movement of the body?

the truth is, it isnt that hard. I can get on youtube and skim through about 500 comments below every cheat curl vid that all call bullshit for not doing full reps.

500 more comments below short rep bench press vids, saying “not a rep was done”

and 500 more below every shallow squat vid hating on not going deep enough.

I find it very hard to believe that people are actually confused about a lockout on a deadlift.

 

a lockout is a lockout is a damn lockout. 

 

And personally i prefer a lockout. Cant stand the hunched over looking stances on crossbar lifts.

 

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Climber028

It's not going anywhere,  I don't care what people do. A crossbar is objective, it either touches or it doesn't, can be easily confirmed with single angle footage.  Lockout is subjective, people have different bodies and limb lengths which makes judging weird in some situations.  Some people can't straighten their arms,  some people have large stomachs, some people have giant quads and these can all cast doubt on a lift. 

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Tommy J.

Arms dont have to be straight on a deadlift as far as i know. Typically the arms do get straightened by the heavy weights On a DL. but hey, if someone wants to risk a bicep on a deadlift by trying to keep the arms bent, more power to them. The back has to be erect, the shoulders back, the knees locked, head straight forward, chest out, Easy peasy.

a lot of non genius's do it daily, with no problem.

imo, crossbar lifts belong only on straddle stance lifts where the implement goes between the legs. Like the Euro. Just about everything else needs to be locked out imo.

and since its the topic at hand, since when has there ever even been a Saxon lift to a crossbar in a comp???

how did this conversation attempt to go to a battle of wits about lockout vs crossbar. We are talking about a Saxon lift..

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KapMan
20 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Ah, i see where this is going.

 

so is it acceptable if i max with 405 on the bench only to a lower mounted crossbar instead of full lockout? Since that would be a more objective way of determining how much i can “bench”? Vs how much i can actually lock out? Because if thats the case ill go load the bar up and bounce it a couple inches off my chest and call it mission accomplished.

oh but wait, i bet thats “different”, huh?

what about on a squat?

what about an overhead press?

what about a simple pull up?

why is it so difficult for everyone to understand standing up erect, but yet at the same time are form critique messiahs on every other movement of the body?

the truth is, it isnt that hard. I can get on youtube and skim through about 500 comments below every cheat curl vid that all call bullshit for not doing full reps.

500 more comments below short rep bench press vids, saying “not a rep was done”

and 500 more below every shallow squat vid hating on not going deep enough.

I find it very hard to believe that people are actually confused about a lockout on a deadlift.

 

a lockout is a lockout is a damn lockout. 

 

And personally i prefer a lockout. Cant stand the hunched over looking stances on crossbar lifts.

 

Careful tommy lets not disturb the feng shui of the board with a debate that could lead into tongue in cheek commentary and potentially offend the sensitivities of certain members. 

 

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Climber028

You brought up bench press which is why I mentioned arms.  I don't think saxons should be to a crossbar that's silly. I think one handed lifts should be,  object lifts should be loaded to a platform,  and deadlift implements should be to lockout. You just need a better judge for lockout, any idiot can judge a crossbar lift.

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Tommy J.
Just now, KapMan said:

Careful tommy lets not disturb the feng shui of the board with a debate that could lead into tongue in cheek commentary and potentially offend the sensitivities of certain members. 

 

If talks of lockouts on WR Grip lifts actually has a way of offending on the Gripboard, im not sure what material might be okay to discuss these days.

 

this thread is fine.

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