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Gripper advice


Aleksandar Milosevic

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5 minutes ago, Paul Savage said:

Im not sure if your trolling or just a negative person but id weight trained for a couple years bare handed no mixed grip on deads etc before I tried grippers, I couldn't finish #1 right hand and my left was a good bit weaker, took me 5 months to close #2 both hands, 2 years to close an easy #3 right hand etc I'd also been an angler to national level prior to weight training and started at about 5 and there's s fair bit of hand strength required for that. I nor Becca said programming is impeccable or my knowledge is bottomless, there's always things to work on and I'm always learning but this doesn't make a person better than someone else. I'm certainly useless at a lot of things but this is something I've spent countless hours on over many years (the word obsession comes to mind).

Nathon Holle is a beast!

Think it was a compliment.

 

Down the rabbit hole we further decend

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2 minutes ago, KapMan said:

Think it was a compliment.

 

Down the rabbit hole we further decend

No he was saying I have good genetics and that's where my strength comes from not from programming and knowledge etc was basically mocking me

Yeah, I'll leave this thread be now, not interested in the negativity Internet arguing isn't my fortay these days, just wanted to help someone.

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2 minutes ago, Paul Savage said:

No he was saying I have good genetics and that's where my strength comes from not from programming and knowledge etc was basically mocking me

Yeah, I'll leave this thread be now, not interested in the negativity Internet arguing isn't my fortay these days, just wanted to help someone.

Fair enough. Adios 

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7 hours ago, Tommy J. said:

So Laine took the time to break down a training regime for you, and you did it less than a week before quitting? Wtf?

on your behalf, i will apologize to Laine for you for wasting his time.

also, you started a thread here that literally solicited our advice with the title, and have done nothing but swat all the advice down that has been offered.

bang up job. Good luck coach.

You didn't read everything I wrote, you just write what you want to write. Program was followed to the letter and done completely. 

With regards to the advice, you're correct in a way, but some of the advice was getting CoC grippers, which I did, and I learned a fair bit about other grippers.

Thank you for the good luck wishes.

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7 hours ago, BeccaRoberts said:

I would like to say, that as a "strength and conditioning coach" with a degree this type of attitide towards female sport is really disappointing.

Its attitudes like yours that holds the female sport back.

That's like saying people that don't care about sports in general are holding all sports back. A lot of the top coaches in sports don't care about other sports or think about them. 

I really don't wanna go into politics and male-female dynamics in today's society, but I'll just say that being a female gives you way more opportunity in everything that you choose.

I will now stop responding in this thread, thank you all again.

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1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

You do. 

And of course you still have trained hard for it. I'm not disputing that. However, there are many guys who have also trained hard in the pursuit of great gripper strength. Many with the #4 as a goal. Training hard and smart really isn't that big of a deal. Aside from the obviously very gifted ones few have gotten to a #4 mms close (if anyone). Even Teemu ilvesniemi who arguably was somewhat gifted tried his all to accomplish it but still ultimately failed to do it. Morgan here who some even seem to regard as one of the strongest crush guys ever can just about close a #4 on the easy side. 

You have made it pretty clear before that you don't consider a #4 mms close a big deal and that it is achieveable by just about anyone given the right training and dedication for it. Well, that simply is not the reality. That is mocking the many people who have trained for it and given it their all but havent been able to do it. 

Saying you dont have a knack for it and you just wanted it bad enough is pretty arrogant in my opinion. I recall wade gillingham giving the same point of view in a discussion with you somewhere. He trained hard for years but never closed the #4 as far as I know. 

Honestly this is all just a cop out, its so easy for someone to just play the genetics card and to be honest that is what is pretty arrogant in my opinion.

Unless you have done what it takes to close #4's and be at that high a level you don't know what it takes to do it, simple as that. You also don't know Paul, train with Paul, or live with Paul like i do. He trains very hard and he has done thousands of hours of grip intensive manual labour along with it, as well as taking daily icebaths for years straight at times. It's not what everybody does, sorry. 

As for his knowledge, it's not normal either, again your talking thousands of hours of research and a lot of very specific trial and error. It's not something you can just get from a degree. He is always watching videos, reading up on things and keeping up to date with training of athletes in many different sports. (It does get annoying when i want a cuddle 😂)

I don't have the knowledge Paul has, i try to learn what i can but i know for a fact not all the top athletes know everything. Yes some will know things Paul doesn't, he would be the first to admit that but it can be surprising what gets overlooked. Even well seasoned worlds strongest man athletes make big mistakes in technique and training, there's loads of things Paul picks up on all the time and these things add up.

Ive personally seen how Paul tries to take in any advice that is given, no matter who by. Just recently we were with David Horne and Jerome Bloom and he shut up and listened, he doesnt ever think 'oh i know more than him' or 'im stronger than him' so i wont listen to what hes saying. He is always, always willing to learn and thats what makes him different. 

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46 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

The genetics card is not arrogant, it is realistic. You hold several world records, no wonder you don't understand the genetics card.

You have trained hard, had good coaching, you have probably made training a priority in your life and sacrificed lots of things to get where you want to be right? Trained for hours a day all week? You have earned those records. You weren't simply gifted them by natural talent alone. Well, you arent the only one who tries that hard. You succeeded because you fought for it yes, but without your genetics you wouldn’t have made it. Simple as that. 

In every sport there are tons of people who trains their ass off to succeed and be the best, many have big dreams and make sacrifices to get where they wanna be. Some make it some do not. Those that then do succeed, what separates them from the others? Were they willing to sacrifice more? Did they have the mental toughness to push themselves further? Did they believe in themselves so hard that through belief they made their Dreams possible? Did they take lce baths every night before bed? 

No, they had talent, more talent than the rest. They were better made for it. 

Paul is not the only one who has a passion for training. I have been around long enough to know what's up. I have seen my fair share of gifted people and the other end of the spectrum too. Some things at the pinnacle or near it in every sport is not for everyone who simply wants it and fight for it. 

The #4 is such a thing that is not for everyone. Thinking you can achieve anything through working hard is naive. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try though if closing it is a goal. And insinuating that others simply do not work as hard and therefore do not succeed is insulting. 

And I'm sure Paul's a nice guy. 

We both get your train of thought and understand where you are coming from and agree with you 100% in one sense, but there's things your not thinking of. Firstly, nobody that has freaky amazing genetics has put 10+ years into training that's completely focused on grippers, doing thousand of hours of training, research and competing with some of the best etc With other sports that are more established the reality is the bar would be much higher because of those genetics. There's been people that have closed #3 straight away, i met a guy that had never touched a gripper or done any specific grip training and he took my #3 down to 1/8" without the best position and no chalk after a heavy set of reverse curls (90kg!) so pre exhausted. That's a genetic freak. These kind of guys have closed #3.5's without much effort or specific training, the reason they havent gone on to warm up on #4's is not because they can't physically get there, it's because they don't care to and don't want to focus on it / don't have the passion for it. Sorry but i don't have anything close to these kind of genetics, again i couldn't close a #1 even after years of bare handed weight training and being a competitive angler since very young which requires a fair amount of grip and forearm strength. My progress has also reflected this, again it took years of being obsessed with grippers to even get an easy #3 closed strong hand. My recovery is slow and i get injured for doing the slightest thing wrong and even doing nothing at all wrong and everything right sometimes (ask becca!), i also get sore as all hell from training always. I've trained a bunch of normal people with more natural strength that have no big accomplishments, recover quicker and never get injured when they never even try to hydrate or prepare at all for training, and almost never get sore etc With Becca she definitely has good genetics, big frame, a lot of height which helps long term if you work hard, big hands, doesn't get much lactic acid build up in her muscles which helps with high reps etc but she also has naturally poor coordination, her recovery is ok but not fast, she naturally holds too much body fat despite eating well etc and most importantly shes not naturally strong, as said, she struggled with 60kg deadlifts when i first started training her, had almost no shoulder strength etc Keeping in mind she was 170kg thats really not that good. Terry hollands for examply could deadlift 270kg when he first deadlifted and it's a similar story with a lot of the other top guys. With people like that things come easier than most too, ive seen it loads of times in person and they have a big advantage when injured as they stay a lot stronger which adds up over time. There are women that are naturally strong but there isnt really the genetic freaks at this point like there is in the mens. This is why becca has climbed up the ranks so quickly, again the bar isn't as high as other sports, it's not because she has those freak genetics. 

Of course the #4 is not for everyone but what % of people will dedicate there entire lives to it for many years? 0.something. Fact is most don't care to spend hours a night researching, 5 hour training sessions, contrast baths with ice and kettle boiled water etc I only got to that level because for whatever reason i cared so much, an honestly i couldn't tell you what that reason is / was, i guess im just a bit nuts.

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1 hour ago, Paul Savage said:

We both get your train of thought and understand where you are coming from and agree with you 100% in one sense, but there's things your not thinking of. Firstly, nobody that has freaky amazing genetics has put 10+ years into training that's completely focused on grippers, doing thousand of hours of training, research and competing with some of the best etc With other sports that are more established the reality is the bar would be much higher because of those genetics. There's been people that have closed #3 straight away, i met a guy that had never touched a gripper or done any specific grip training and he took my #3 down to 1/8" without the best position and no chalk after a heavy set of reverse curls (90kg!) so pre exhausted. That's a genetic freak. These kind of guys have closed #3.5's without much effort or specific training, the reason they havent gone on to warm up on #4's is not because they can't physically get there, it's because they don't care to and don't want to focus on it / don't have the passion for it. Sorry but i don't have anything close to these kind of genetics, again i couldn't close a #1 even after years of bare handed weight training and being a competitive angler since very young which requires a fair amount of grip and forearm strength. My progress has also reflected this, again it took years of being obsessed with grippers to even get an easy #3 closed strong hand. My recovery is slow and i get injured for doing the slightest thing wrong and even doing nothing at all wrong and everything right sometimes (ask becca!), i also get sore as all hell from training always. I've trained a bunch of normal people with more natural strength that have no big accomplishments, recover quicker and never get injured when they never even try to hydrate or prepare at all for training, and almost never get sore etc With Becca she definitely has good genetics, big frame, a lot of height which helps long term if you work hard, big hands, doesn't get much lactic acid build up in her muscles which helps with high reps etc but she also has naturally poor coordination, her recovery is ok but not fast, she naturally holds too much body fat despite eating well etc and most importantly shes not naturally strong, as said, she struggled with 60kg deadlifts when i first started training her, had almost no shoulder strength etc Keeping in mind she was 170kg thats really not that good. Terry hollands for examply could deadlift 270kg when he first deadlifted and it's a similar story with a lot of the other top guys. With people like that things come easier than most too, ive seen it loads of times in person and they have a big advantage when injured as they stay a lot stronger which adds up over time. There are women that are naturally strong but there isnt really the genetic freaks at this point like there is in the mens. This is why becca has climbed up the ranks so quickly, again the bar isn't as high as other sports, it's not because she has those freak genetics. 

Of course the #4 is not for everyone but what % of people will dedicate there entire lives to it for many years? 0.something. Fact is most don't care to spend hours a night researching, 5 hour training sessions, contrast baths with ice and kettle boiled water etc I only got to that level because for whatever reason i cared so much, an honestly i couldn't tell you what that reason is / was, i guess im just a bit nuts.

Who are the guys who have closed #3.5s without much effort?

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1 hour ago, Paul Savage said:

We both get your train of thought and understand where you are coming from and agree with you 100% in one sense, but there's things your not thinking of. Firstly, nobody that has freaky amazing genetics has put 10+ years into training that's completely focused on grippers, doing thousand of hours of training, research and competing with some of the best etc With other sports that are more established the reality is the bar would be much higher because of those genetics. There's been people that have closed #3 straight away, i met a guy that had never touched a gripper or done any specific grip training and he took my #3 down to 1/8" without the best position and no chalk after a heavy set of reverse curls (90kg!) so pre exhausted. That's a genetic freak. These kind of guys have closed #3.5's without much effort or specific training, the reason they havent gone on to warm up on #4's is not because they can't physically get there, it's because they don't care to and don't want to focus on it / don't have the passion for it. Sorry but i don't have anything close to these kind of genetics, again i couldn't close a #1 even after years of bare handed weight training and being a competitive angler since very young which requires a fair amount of grip and forearm strength. My progress has also reflected this, again it took years of being obsessed with grippers to even get an easy #3 closed strong hand. My recovery is slow and i get injured for doing the slightest thing wrong and even doing nothing at all wrong and everything right sometimes (ask becca!), i also get sore as all hell from training always. I've trained a bunch of normal people with more natural strength that have no big accomplishments, recover quicker and never get injured when they never even try to hydrate or prepare at all for training, and almost never get sore etc With Becca she definitely has good genetics, big frame, a lot of height which helps long term if you work hard, big hands, doesn't get much lactic acid build up in her muscles which helps with high reps etc but she also has naturally poor coordination, her recovery is ok but not fast, she naturally holds too much body fat despite eating well etc and most importantly shes not naturally strong, as said, she struggled with 60kg deadlifts when i first started training her, had almost no shoulder strength etc Keeping in mind she was 170kg thats really not that good. Terry hollands for examply could deadlift 270kg when he first deadlifted and it's a similar story with a lot of the other top guys. With people like that things come easier than most too, ive seen it loads of times in person and they have a big advantage when injured as they stay a lot stronger which adds up over time. There are women that are naturally strong but there isnt really the genetic freaks at this point like there is in the mens. This is why becca has climbed up the ranks so quickly, again the bar isn't as high as other sports, it's not because she has those freak genetics. 

Of course the #4 is not for everyone but what % of people will dedicate there entire lives to it for many years? 0.something. Fact is most don't care to spend hours a night researching, 5 hour training sessions, contrast baths with ice and kettle boiled water etc I only got to that level because for whatever reason i cared so much, an honestly i couldn't tell you what that reason is / was, i guess im just a bit nuts.

Good lord, a 5 hour gripper workout? I couldn't imagine.  Not to mention all that other stuff you mentioned. 

 

Ny idea of a gripper workout has alway been the same. Maybe a few warm up squeezes of my one and two and then a few min of randomly closing my 3's or bigger grippers and that's it.

 

I used to do tons of reps though for 30 or more minutes. I sometimes feel like doing that again.  

The only way I've ever closed my 4 is by chest crushing it lol

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18 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Who are the guys who have closed #3.5s without much effort?

There's been a bunch, there's well known ones like kirill sarychev, rich Williams etc but there is also guys like that guy I seen in the gym who nobody knows and who has never competed. He even took my #3.5 to 1/4" and again no chalk (of course no set either) had no idea what grippers were, never trained grip etc

Really have to stop posting in this thread now guys, stuff to do haha

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Ive become closer to closing my 3.5s without much effort. Pretty sure a 5 hour workout would do more harm then good. A gripper workout that rivals Rich Piana’s 8 hour arm workout.  No thanks

 

edit: i know this sounded like a douche comment. Alls Im saying is, if I pulled a extended workout id end up doing more harm then good. 1-2 hours tops even then, im tempting fate. 

Edited by KapMan
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1 hour ago, Paul Savage said:

There's been a bunch, there's well known ones like kirill sarychev, rich Williams etc but there is also guys like that guy I seen in the gym who nobody knows and who has never competed. He even took my #3.5 to 1/4" and again no chalk (of course no set either) had no idea what grippers were, never trained grip etc

Really have to stop posting in this thread now guys, stuff to do haha

So two guys.

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I said I was not going to post...

Kiril Sarychev is one of the strongest people to ever live, strongest bench presser in the history of mankind and he has a decade of grip training + huge hands.

The other example is a guy that held the axle world record and all-around grip strength legend Rich Williams.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Thats kind of cool.

 

everyone want to make a little wager that instead of genetics, that family just more than likely had a bench press in the kitchen as they grew up instead of a table to eat at? Gurantee something along those lines was more the case than genetics.

I don't want to pitch in to much in the genetics or not discussion but it's heavily genetic dependent to be able to handle the volume it takes to train that way.

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My belief is that genetics determine how much stress your body can take without getting injured. If you can take all the training, you can go from not being able to close a #1 to close a #4. Ofcourse with the right training, mental approach and dedication and all those things Paul said. If you can close the #3 the first time you try ofcourse you got talent, but to go further you need dedication and the correct training and if your genetics doesnt allow for it you wont go further.

 

 

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I'm just going to write a real life example. A friend of mine, which is an elite powerlifter told me the entire truth of his path. Natural and with a lot of years of good training he came to a 190 kg bench press at 110-115 kg bodyweight and there was no way to advance, injuries started piling up etc. You can say he reached his maximum natural potential. Then came the PEDs and a couple years later that result was around 245 kg at 125 kg, and he's not a bench only guy, his squat and deadlift is also elite. 

For bench pressing, bodyweight is and insanely big factor, the more weight I gained, the more I benched. I never really made the bench press my priority, but I benched 145 kg paused when I was 19 years old at 92 kg bodyweight. Did 150 kg without a pause at 95 kg when I was 20. You simply have to gain weight to advance on the bench press, as a natural lifter.

And yes, genetics play a huge role, but you can tailor a program that's very efficient and rational for every type of genetic makeup, but it takes a lot of knowledge. Muscle fiber types, physiological status, hormone levels, lactic acid build up and tolerance etc. I am blessed that I can tolerate both high volume and high intensity and I have good genetics for strength and power, but there are people who I know are genetically worse than me, but still stronger, because care about it more. From 14 to 21 I only wanted to get bigger, stronger, the strongest I can be, and I was stronger than almost everyone in my gym, besides that guy which I told you about. He told me when I was 20-21, "you're stronger now, than I was when I was 30" and told me I'm gonna become a world-class elite lifter. Well, that didn't happen. But two people with the same burning desire + efficient program but different genetic make up = gifted lifter advances way faster, it's just life.

So Hopefully, you've reached 187.5 kg @ 100 kg, I consider that elite level, if you are natural, and you have the chance to be a 220 kg+ bench presser in the 105-125 kg range. And I really mean that. You just need to have a burning desire to do it, tunnel vision it has to be something that you think about every single day. But you just have to decide if it's worth it or not.

I stopped having that burning desire, when I went to the USA on a student exchange program in 2015. I came there all alone, never worked a real job, never went away from home, just a shock. The contract I've signed said that there was not going to be any work in the first two weeks, while the pools open (I was supposed to be a lifeguard). Well, there was work, and it's an understatement. The owner of the company picked me and my friend to help him for the two weeks, opening pools and passing pool inspections, I was working for 15 hours per day on average, and it was hard work: carrying pool pumps, cleaning the pools, carrying supplies, chlorinating, taking off tiles, gluing new tiles etc. And I was on one, eventually two meals per day during those two weeks. One day we started at 8 am, finished at midnight, and we had to be back at work at 4 am because we were running late with the inspections. Stress + hard work + no sleep + no food = losing 17 kg/37.5 lbs in TWO WEEKS. After those two weeks I was immediately promoted to a supervisor position, and I had some breathing room and started going in the gym. When I left my country, a couple days prior to that I benched 100 kg/225 lbs x 21, on my first workout in the USA, three weeks after arriving I almost failed the second rep with 100 kg. That's when I realized that it's all an illusion. Now I only prepare for the reality of life.

I hope you enjoyed the blog post, haha :D 



 

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6 hours ago, Aleksandar Milosevic said:

I'm just going to write a real life example. A friend of mine, which is an elite powerlifter told me the entire truth of his path. Natural and with a lot of years of good training he came to a 190 kg bench press at 110-115 kg bodyweight and there was no way to advance, injuries started piling up etc. You can say he reached his maximum natural potential. Then came the PEDs and a couple years later that result was around 245 kg at 125 kg, and he's not a bench only guy, his squat and deadlift is also elite. 

For bench pressing, bodyweight is and insanely big factor, the more weight I gained, the more I benched. I never really made the bench press my priority, but I benched 145 kg paused when I was 19 years old at 92 kg bodyweight. Did 150 kg without a pause at 95 kg when I was 20. You simply have to gain weight to advance on the bench press, as a natural lifter.

And yes, genetics play a huge role, but you can tailor a program that's very efficient and rational for every type of genetic makeup, but it takes a lot of knowledge. Muscle fiber types, physiological status, hormone levels, lactic acid build up and tolerance etc. I am blessed that I can tolerate both high volume and high intensity and I have good genetics for strength and power, but there are people who I know are genetically worse than me, but still stronger, because care about it more. From 14 to 21 I only wanted to get bigger, stronger, the strongest I can be, and I was stronger than almost everyone in my gym, besides that guy which I told you about. He told me when I was 20-21, "you're stronger now, than I was when I was 30" and told me I'm gonna become a world-class elite lifter. Well, that didn't happen. But two people with the same burning desire + efficient program but different genetic make up = gifted lifter advances way faster, it's just life.

So Hopefully, you've reached 187.5 kg @ 100 kg, I consider that elite level, if you are natural, and you have the chance to be a 220 kg+ bench presser in the 105-125 kg range. And I really mean that. You just need to have a burning desire to do it, tunnel vision it has to be something that you think about every single day. But you just have to decide if it's worth it or not.

I stopped having that burning desire, when I went to the USA on a student exchange program in 2015. I came there all alone, never worked a real job, never went away from home, just a shock. The contract I've signed said that there was not going to be any work in the first two weeks, while the pools open (I was supposed to be a lifeguard). Well, there was work, and it's an understatement. The owner of the company picked me and my friend to help him for the two weeks, opening pools and passing pool inspections, I was working for 15 hours per day on average, and it was hard work: carrying pool pumps, cleaning the pools, carrying supplies, chlorinating, taking off tiles, gluing new tiles etc. And I was on one, eventually two meals per day during those two weeks. One day we started at 8 am, finished at midnight, and we had to be back at work at 4 am because we were running late with the inspections. Stress + hard work + no sleep + no food = losing 17 kg/37.5 lbs in TWO WEEKS. After those two weeks I was immediately promoted to a supervisor position, and I had some breathing room and started going in the gym. When I left my country, a couple days prior to that I benched 100 kg/225 lbs x 21, on my first workout in the USA, three weeks after arriving I almost failed the second rep with 100 kg. That's when I realized that it's all an illusion. Now I only prepare for the reality of life.

I hope you enjoyed the blog post, haha :D 



 

The internet has a strange way of making you reply when you say you arent going to doesnt it?😬

Edited by KapMan
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13 minutes ago, KapMan said:

The internet has a strange lf making you reply when you say you arent going to doesnt it?😬

Can't be the internet,  it's just genetics 

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  • 2 weeks later...
25 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Wow! that is incredibly disappointing.. 

So, Hypothetically, receiving a 1st place medal at an event you competed at could technically be breaking that law.. is how im reading it..

i guess a closer comparison could be if you just decided to wear that same awarded medal around your neck out in public the next day.

that law appars to fit an exact example of fascism.

It's not a literal law, it's more like a cultural norm. Winning is great,  being boisterous or pompous about it would be frowned upon.

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Iguess we really value our personal space 😅 Fun part is that we have to be humble if we win, but at the same time we hate the "loser mentality".

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5 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

As much as i am ashamed to admit it, there are many places in the states that people are not very polite. Cali is one of those states.. not even lying when i say people will literally ask you what your looking at for just making eye contact it seems. So im glad one of those places wasnt your united states experience.

what you experienced, and that i am proud of, was southern hospitality. People down in the south often times will love you until you give them a reason to hate you. Various other areas here are the exact opposite.

 

the US has revered heros forever. Movies, soldiers, prize fighters, you name it. So its no surprise to see someone super proud to win around here.

This. The midwest, and south have a huge population of really nice people. Hopefully despite the great Northerner migration thats been taken place the past decade or two because of shitty taxes, and lame government decisions  it stays that way. 

My neighboorhood alone is most folk from up North. I love NC but I miss Kansas and Oklahoma alot.

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43 minutes ago, Tommy J. said:

Hopefully it does. I dont mind one bit folks moving from states like Cali to here in Texas. And from what they tell me, they are so much happier here. I just hope they realize that their own voting decisions they made in the past is what ultimately led to them wanting to flee that joint and come here instead. If they move to a new state and turn it in to what Cali has become, eventually they will run out of places to retreat from their own bad decisions.

Agreed. 

 

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