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Bornintothe

Larry Wheels lifts the Inch Dumbbell

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Tommy J.
13 minutes ago, king crusher said:

I have no issue with people taking what they want, doesnt effect me. But when he was on his high horse saying how these guys shouldn't be taking this and that if they have kids and a wife yadda yadda and he himself is taking the same stuff, I find that a bit amusing to say the least. And again, there is no point comparing PED's to any OTC meds, to do so is just silly. 

Taking testosterone can lead to prostate and other cancers, but plenty of things can cause cancer it seems so carry on.

No sweat man. Rick is a good dude. More what i took his comments as, were in regards to how much guys like Thor or Larry might take. It looked like he was saying he doesnt look down on people taking that much stuff if they dont have people that depend on them. I dont disagree.

Rick is on what is referred to as a cruise cycle. Just a low dose of test only, Prescribed and monitored by a Dr.

While i do not know for sure, i would assume that guys like Larry or Thor are on WAY more than a cruise cycle.

which, like any drug, over indulging will lead to bad stuff.

Edited by Tommy J.

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king crusher

Yeah I agree with what you're saying but it's also like a guy preaching how smoking crack is bad but secretly just doing a little bit in the garage lol

 

Okay I'm done talking about this 

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Tommy J.
10 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Yeah I agree with what you're saying but it's also like a guy preaching how smoking crack is bad but secretly just doing a little bit in the garage lol

 

Okay I'm done talking about this 

Not the same tho.. a cruise cycle only brings a guy Ricks age testosterone levels to what a guy in his 20’s with natural high test levels might be. So right now Rick is basically an older guy (not so old actually) that is living in a natural, but athletic, 20 year olds body.

 

kind of the same as if i call a guy a lush that drinks way too much, but i still average about a beer or two a day.

 

also the same as if you were to compare a career criminal to someone who has only got a few speeding tickets. Not the same thing.

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Bornintothe

This got out of hand quickly. 

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Hubgeezer

A wise man once said:

”For every PED you take, God takes an hour of your life and gives it to Louie Simmons.”

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Aleksandar Milosevic

People need to realize that low testosterone levels lead to earlier death and deterioration of almost all markers. Let's not even speak of the mental health effects, loss of libido etc. Having low testosterone levels is probably the worst thing for a man.

What you are saying King, is that Rich should suffer and let his health go down the drain, so he could remain "clean" in the eyes of someone he doesn't care one bit about? And you have to understand that 200 mg per two weeks is a very, VERY low dose. 500 mg per week is the starting point for sports performance and muscle building. We're talking about professional athletes who are abusing hormones, going to several grams per week, while weighing 400+ lbs. 

My stance is this, we need to have tested and untested federations for every sport. When you get caught using in a tested federation, you don't get DQd, fined etc., you go to prison and you're never allowed to compete in the sport again. Users against users, natural athletes against natural athletes. But that's just wishful thinking.

 

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James Fuller

As far as hitching on Deadlifts goes, I'd say NO HITCHING until you turn Pro in Strongman. I competed in Powerlifting before going into Strongman and I'm SO GLAD I DID! I think its just too easy for guys to overtrain with a hitching style. I think those of us who Powerlifted before going into Strongman respected the Deadlift more if that makes any sense.  CAN someone not compete in Powerlifting and learn to do the Strongman style Deadlift without overtraining?? Of course. MOST people I see training for Strongman go too heavy, too often. Making no hitching mandatory until the Pro level would help focusing on cleaner Deadlift form which will reduce injury rates by holding athletes back. By the time they turn Pro, they will have enough training and experience to start hitching with their Deadlifts.

As far as TRT therapy, its good for men just as Estrogen therapy is good for women: its two sides of the same coin. As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

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king crusher
45 minutes ago, James Fuller said:

As far as hitching on Deadlifts goes, I'd say NO HITCHING until you turn Pro in Strongman. I competed in Powerlifting before going into Strongman and I'm SO GLAD I DID! I think its just too easy for guys to overtrain with a hitching style. I think those of us who Powerlifted before going into Strongman respected the Deadlift more if that makes any sense.  CAN someone not compete in Powerlifting and learn to do the Strongman style Deadlift without overtraining?? Of course. MOST people I see training for Strongman go too heavy, too often. Making no hitching mandatory until the Pro level would help focusing on cleaner Deadlift form which will reduce injury rates by holding athletes back. By the time they turn Pro, they will have enough training and experience to start hitching with their Deadlifts.

As far as TRT therapy, its good for men just as Estrogen therapy is good for women: its two sides of the same coin. As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

Not sure who you're talking about but I'm 40 and have been training hard and naturally for 23 years. I will never mess with hormones and take anything. What is natural is for a mans testosterone to go down when he ages. That's life, deal with it. Test levels of males have dropped over the last century due to the obesity epidemic. Being overweight lowers test among other things. Maybe people should address those possibilities before jumping on drugs. I know that's a far out concept in America where everyone would rather throw a drug at their symptoms without addressing the root cause. It's highly unlikely most of the people with an opinion other than this will change their mind but I'm fine agreeing to disagree. 

 

 

Edited by king crusher
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Joseph Sullivan
9 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Not sure who you're talking about but I'm 40 and have been training hard and naturally for 23 years. I will never mess with hormones and take anything. What is natural is for a mans testosterone to go down when he ages. That's life, deal with it. Test levels of males have dropped over the last century due to the obesity epidemic. Being overweight lowers test among other things. Maybe people should address those possibilities before jumping on drugs. I know that's a far out concept in America where everyone would rather throw a drug at their symptoms without addressing the root cause. It's highly unlikely most of the people with an opinion other than this will change their mind but I'm fine agreeing to disagree. 

 

 

It’s not even the obesity epidemic. It’s the hormone altering chemicals in everyday products in our homes. Bisphenol A , the chemicals in plastics, shower curtains that are plastic, the chemicals in tin can liners. All these have been shown to Lower testosterone and increase estrogen levels in males. We are living in a world that is bombarded with synthetic chemicals pouring on our systems from the moment we wake up and the moment we go to bed. Our food has been stripped of nutrients, and our air is contaminated with heavy metals such as barium, strontium and aluminum. It’s all by design. But, as the others have stated, having low test is just as detrimental to the system as having too high. Heart disease, depression, sluggish, no drive, no confidence or fight in the dog. If one needs HRT to remain feeling normal... I say go for it. I can tell you from my fathers personal experience. He’s 63. Felt like jumping off a bridge he was so depressed. Doctor put him on 200 mg of test every other week, and he is like a kid again. Live well or live like crap? I say if he can live well, feel strong and desire sex, then have at it. 

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king crusher

Heart disease is this countries biggest killer and it ain't due to low test my friend.  Its due to the western diet which is an enormous amount of meat, dairy, oil, fried foods etc. If people overhauled their diet they would feel a whole lot better. 

We live in a youth obsessed world now, hence why a 60 some year old would want to act like hes 20. Im all for staying active as the years go on but messing with your natural hormones is not the answer.  There are clear issues with doing so, and there is no free lunch. 

This countries idea of vegetables are French fries. That is the truth, french fries are the United states number one consumed vegetable lol. That's sad.

 

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Joseph Sullivan
20 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Heart disease is this countries biggest killer and it ain't due to low test my friend.  Its due to the western diet which is an enormous amount of meat, dairy, oil, fried foods etc. If people overhauled their diet they would feel a whole lot better. 

We live in a youth obsessed world now, hence why a 60 some year old would want to act like hes 20. Im all for staying active as the years go on but messing with your natural hormones is not the answer.  There are clear issues with doing so, and there is no free lunch. 

This countries idea of vegetables are French fries. That is the truth, french fries are the United states number one consumed vegetable lol. That's sad.

 

You do realize that low test increases risk of heart disease substantially, right? You are generalizing and painting with a narrow brush with that statement. There are MANY men in this world who are low that aren’t “fat” and to state that a man shouldn’t still be able to feel good at 63, when there is quite a bit of life left, is not your call to make for them. If it’s being done to get one to normal levels, there should be no issues with it for anyone,  as well as very little, if any, negative health issues. You don’t want to take HRT When you get older? That’s fine! You may feel different one day, when you aren’t feeling quite like you are now. I myself, take zero drugs of any kind. Not even a multi vitamin. That’s my choice. Just as it’s anotjer mans choice to bring his hormones to normal levels through a doctors care for therapeutic reasons. Someone’s quality of life or lack thereof is a personal choice. Abuse roids? Heck no! Take small doses of test in the man who is low for return to normal levels? If that’s what they want! 

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Hopefully

I dont quite get it, normal levels for a 40-60 year old man is not the same as a 20-year olds. The term normal is a little misplaced here if used in that context. 

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Joseph Sullivan
1 minute ago, Hopefully said:

I dont quite get it, normal levels for a 40-60 year old man is not the same as a 20-year olds. The term normal is a little misplaced here if used in that context. 

There are normal set  ranges. The doctors care tells you what that should be. We are beating a dead horse here. It’s legal, doctors do hormone replacement therapy on both men and women. Choose to do it or don’t choose to do it. As long as a doctor is prescribing it and monitoring your levels. 

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king crusher

Like I said before, it's just a way for doctors to tap another money faucet. Making aging guys think they need this with commercials and radio spots etc. When in reality their problem is not testosterone. Most Americans are overweight so it's a much bigger problem than you think. Even ppl who think they are not overweight,  are.

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bdckr
3 hours ago, James Fuller said:

As far as hitching on Deadlifts goes, I'd say NO HITCHING until you turn Pro in Strongman. I competed in Powerlifting before going into Strongman and I'm SO GLAD I DID! I think its just too easy for guys to overtrain with a hitching style. I think those of us who Powerlifted before going into Strongman respected the Deadlift more if that makes any sense.  CAN someone not compete in Powerlifting and learn to do the Strongman style Deadlift without overtraining?? Of course. MOST people I see training for Strongman go too heavy, too often. Making no hitching mandatory until the Pro level would help focusing on cleaner Deadlift form which will reduce injury rates by holding athletes back. By the time they turn Pro, they will have enough training and experience to start hitching with their Deadlifts.

As far as TRT therapy, its good for men just as Estrogen therapy is good for women: its two sides of the same coin. As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=whi+estrogen+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Comparing it to estrogen replacement doesn't make the case you think it does.

There are risks from estrogen replacement therapy, which is why the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) was groundbreaking in discouraging its use as preventative therapy.  HRT is used now only in women who are symptomatic where the benefits outweigh the risks.

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Joseph Sullivan
12 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Like I said before, it's just a way for doctors to tap another money faucet. Making aging guys think they need this with commercials and radio spots etc. When in reality their problem is not testosterone. Most Americans are overweight so it's a much bigger problem than you think. Even ppl who think they are not overweight,  are.

So how do you explain all the men that felt like garbage before, with low t , got on HRT and now feel like normal guys again? Ones that were mistakenly put on antidepressants, that no longer need them because it was low T. Who is overweight, or not, in your eyes? “Even the ones that think they aren’t, are”? That’s another generalization with no facts to back it up. You can’t speak for all these men. And one can’t deny the positive mental and physical effects they are gaining from it. You have your bias of it and your convictions, but that’s just it. Bias and convictions. There are many natural ways one can up their testosterone as well. Eating raw garlic, for instance. And not for nothing, even if there is the small possibility of them having some negative affects, many do not care. They would rather enjoy their life, feel well and be able to participate in activities they no longer had the energy or desire for prior to treatment. I would not be saying this if not for seeing my fathers life turn around 360 degrees in feeling good physically and mentally. And guess what? If there are any negative affects of it, he doesn’t care. He would rather feel like a normal man than a depressed, sluggish, weak, unmotivated individual.

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king crusher
17 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

So how do you explain all the men that felt like garbage before, with low t , got on HRT and now feel like normal guys again? Ones that were mistakenly put on antidepressants, that no longer need them because it was low T. Who is overweight, or not, in your eyes? “Even the ones that think they aren’t, are”? That’s another generalization with no facts to back it up. You can’t speak for all these men. And one can’t deny the positive mental and physical effects they are gaining from it. You have your bias of it and your convictions, but that’s just it. Bias and convictions. There are many natural ways one can up their testosterone as well. Eating raw garlic, for instance. And not for nothing, even if there is the small possibility of them having some negative affects, many do not care. They would rather enjoy their life, feel well and be able to participate in activities they no longer had the energy or desire for prior to treatment. I would not be saying this if not for seeing my fathers life turn around 360 degrees in feeling good physically and mentally. And guess what? If there are any negative affects of it, he doesn’t care. He would rather feel like a normal man than a depressed, sluggish, weak, unmotivated individual.

Let me know your height and weight and I'll tell you if you're overweight.  And you mean to say 180deg. If he did a 360, he would be back to where he started.

 

Men in their 60's should not feel like they are in their 20's. What happened to just living life naturally,  when you're 80 you are not going to be racing motocross, deal with it. 

Edited by king crusher

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Wannagrip

Guys, this thread is not about TRT and being overweight.   It's hijacked the thread and time to cease. Thanks.

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Joseph Sullivan
5 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Let me know your height and weight and I'll tell you if you're overweight.  And you mean to say 180deg. If he did a 360, he would be back to where he started.

 

Men in their 60's should not feel like they are in their 20's. What happened to just living life naturally,  when you're 80 you are not going to be racing motocross, deal with it. 

I did mean to say 180, for some reason, voice command made it 360.

You do realize that height and weight charts are archaic. They also don’t take into account someone’s muscle mass to fat ratio. I was being borderline sarcastic when I asked you specifically how you rate someone as being overweight. I work in healthcare, and these charts tell very fit people they are overweight. Conversation is getting ridiculous now. I’m out.

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king crusher
3 minutes ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

I did mean to say 180, for some reason, voice command made it 360.

You do realize that height and weight charts are archaic. They also don’t take into account someone’s muscle mass to fat ratio. I was being borderline sarcastic when I asked you specifically how you rate someone as being overweight. I work in healthcare, and these charts tell very fit people they are overweight. Conversation is getting ridiculous now. I’m out.

Extra weight on your frame whether it muscle or fat is not a benefit to your heart. The BMI charts are actually pretty reasonable.   They work well for me at least. Most people who say they are out of date are overweight.  Like you, they say "what about muscle" when in reality, they are carrying way too much body fat.  You can still fall into the high range of your proper BMI and have plenty of muscle if you're lean enough. 

Lifelong natural and this recent pic shows I have a bit of muscle and am at the high end of my BMI still. 6'1" 190lbs 32 pants. Like I said, most ppl are in denial how much fat they are carrying, which, lowers test.

 

Okay sorry wanna. Lips are zipped.

 

 

20190113_171223.jpg

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slazbob

Please no shirtless men picks. Not the right forum! 😑

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king crusher
21 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Please no shirtless men picks. Not the right forum! 😑

Just proving my point you can be within your proper BMI and still look like you lift, if you're lean enough.  

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slazbob
7 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Just proving my point you can be within your proper BMI and still look like you lift, if you're lean enough.  

I’m just busting your chops 👍🏻

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Hubgeezer
5 hours ago, James Fuller said:

As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

Us older guys? Age 47? That’s a good one!!😃

I guess it’s all relative...

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David_wigren

Extremely off topic here!

I work with microplastic research and know all about the xenoestrogens in plastics. There is no evil conspiracy where evil corporations intentionally add compounds with estrogenic effects into the plastic material in order to feminise us. It’s just unfortunate that the estrogenic receptors in our cells are not very specific to what they bind to, and can therefore bind to almost any compound with similar size and molecular properties. Because of this, there’s a whole lot of stuff that is going to produce estrogenic effects to some degree. Bisphenol A was however VERY estrogenic and therefore banned. But it’s far from the only one. 

But! With all of this said. Our bodies are pretty good of handling these compounds. So for any full grown adult, you’re not going to have ANY noticeable effect. You literally need to be exposed to levels many thousand times higher to even notice an effect. However, it can effect prenatal and very young children. Children who might then grow up with developmental issues, where men might have feminized characteristics and lower testosterone. But if you had high testosterone in you’re 20’s, it means that you were fully developed and were not effected to any significant degree by the xenoestrogenic compounds. And if you experience a disproportionate decline of testosterone as you age, plastics will most likely not have been the cause of it. I’d first blame obesity, depression or some other cause. If in the end it turns out that your testosterone is not lower due to any specific reason which can be treated by other means, I’d jump on TRT. TRT should be avoided as far as possible. Not because it’s particularly dangerous. But mostly because it’s a life long treatment. If you’re on TRT and you have to stop your treatment in the future for any reason, then you’re pretty much screwed.

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