Larry Wheels lifts the Inch Dumbbell

[Bill Piche]

I noticed in multiple videos his (Thor) eyes almost appear shut and look almost swelled shut.  Anyone else notice this?

[Andrew Dube]

25 minutes ago, Wannagrip said:

I noticed in multiple videos his (Thor) eyes almost appear shut and look almost swelled shut.  Anyone else notice this?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wannagrip said:

I noticed in multiple videos his (Thor) eyes almost appear shut and look almost swelled shut.  Anyone else notice this?

Yes, all the time, and talks out of the side of his mouth a lot. Like paralysis of the muscles 

[Bornintothe]

He constantly looks like he’s about sneeze.   If he ever does the whole North Atlantic seaboard better watch out. 

[David_wigren]

19 hours ago, Anthony C. said:

I'm not arguing with your post, but I do think that there are more people taking aspirin than steroids, so this may not be a fantastic example.

Also if a person dies of aspirin, it’s much easier to attribute the cause of death. AAS is much more difficult because it doesn’t have the same acute toxicity. Also due to rules on ethics, it’s almost impossible to do any research on it. However, I’d be willing to bet that only a small fraction of the actual deaths caused by AAS ever gets officially attributed as such. I’d bet if you also factor in other causes of deaths which might not be immediately obvious as being due to steroids, such as from suicides and death by increased risk behavior etc. You’d probably find that death by AAS is alot more common than people realize. 

I mean, did Rich Piana’s and Dallas McCarvers deaths even get officially attributed as being due to steriods?

[Rick Walker]

13 hours ago, David_wigren said:

Also if a person dies of aspirin, it’s much easier to attribute the cause of death. AAS is much more difficult because it doesn’t have the same acute toxicity. Also due to rules on ethics, it’s almost impossible to do any research on it. However, I’d be willing to bet that only a small fraction of the actual deaths caused by AAS ever gets officially attributed as such. I’d bet if you also factor in other causes of deaths which might not be immediately obvious as being due to steroids, such as from suicides and death by increased risk behavior etc. You’d probably find that death by AAS is alot more common than people realize. 

I mean, did Rich Piana’s and Dallas McCarvers deaths even get officially attributed as being due to steriods?

If this is correct, https://generationiron.com/dallas-mccarver-autopsy-released/, it was a contributing factor. Considering the size of his organs, it comes as no surprise. Also notice it mentions his family history. I believe Marunde had some hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in his family as well (maybe an uncle). Sadly, tons of athletes have this and never know it until they die of cardiac arrest. Interestingly, the Cleveland Clinic has begun doing septic myectomy on patients with a fairly high success rate https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/17461-septal-myectomy. So, if the instances of this type of cardiomyopathy are semi-common in athletes, combining certain "supps" to the mix is going to speed up the process. Piana was not young, considering all he did to himself, he actually lasted longer then I thought he would.

On a side note, I am on HRT. My total test was around 200 this time last year. My endo put me on 200 mgs injections of test cyp every 2 weeks. My levels have been right around 600 since the injections. For the past 4 months I have been slamming leg work and deadlifts with tons on volume and intensity. I went in for my check up and all of my blood markers were good; HDL was high 60s, triglycerides were in the 90s, blood sugar was 80, etc. Blood pressure was 122/72. The strange part was my test level came in at 1233! I told her I didn't feel much different but I was getting strong pretty fast in the gym, actually strong enough to tear my adductor belly doing sumos. She said since all of my blood work as good, she had zero issues keeping me on 200 mgs every 2 weeks despite my total levels zooming up to 1233. She didn't even bat an eye at it due to all of my other blood work being excellent. No real explanation as to why my levels have shot through the roof, but I ain't complaining for now. Especially on only 200 mgs every 2 weeks. No anger issues, no suicidal thoughts, nothing like the Ben Affleck After School Special sh*t.

  

 

[king crusher]

1 hour ago, Rick Walker said:

If this is correct, https://generationiron.com/dallas-mccarver-autopsy-released/, it was a contributing factor. Considering the size of his organs, it comes as no surprise. Also notice it mentions his family history. I believe Marunde had some hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in his family as well (maybe an uncle). Sadly, tons of athletes have this and never know it until they die of cardiac arrest. Interestingly, the Cleveland Clinic has begun doing septic myectomy on patients with a fairly high success rate https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/17461-septal-myectomy. So, if the instances of this type of cardiomyopathy are semi-common in athletes, combining certain "supps" to the mix is going to speed up the process. Piana was not young, considering all he did to himself, he actually lasted longer then I thought he would.

On a side note, I am on HRT. My total test was around 200 this time last year. My endo put me on 200 mgs injections of test cyp every 2 weeks. My levels have been right around 600 since the injections. For the past 4 months I have been slamming leg work and deadlifts with tons on volume and intensity. I went in for my check up and all of my blood markers were good; HDL was high 60s, triglycerides were in the 90s, blood sugar was 80, etc. Blood pressure was 122/72. The strange part was my test level came in at 1233! I told her I didn't feel much different but I was getting strong pretty fast in the gym, actually strong enough to tear my adductor belly doing sumos. She said since all of my blood work as good, she had zero issues keeping me on 200 mgs every 2 weeks despite my total levels zooming up to 1233. She didn't even bat an eye at it due to all of my other blood work being excellent. No real explanation as to why my levels have shot through the roof, but I ain't complaining for now. Especially on only 200 mgs every 2 weeks. No anger issues, no suicidal thoughts, nothing like the Ben Affleck After School Special sh*t.

  

 

Wait, wait, you're the guy who just a page back was spouting off about how these guys are doing this and that and as long as they dont have kids and a wife blah blah and YOU  just stated you're taking the same thing they are, albeit in lesser doses? Lmao. Pot calling the kettle black much?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Wait, wait, you're the guy who just a page back was spouting off about how these guys are doing this and that and as long as they dont have kids and a wife blah blah and YOU  just stated you're taking the same thing they are, albeit in lesser doses? Lmao. Pot calling the kettle black much?

I would not compare taking therapeutic levels of testosterone under a doctors care to get one up to normal levels the same thing as guys taking them to lift big weights and get big and in massive quantities. Low testosterone is just as bad for your health as too high. It’s actuallt quite detrimental. Nothing hypocritical about what Rick is doing. He is taking them for a medical deficiency of test. Not to get big and strong like the ones that take them for that reason. I am the biggest anti drug advocate around, unless for medical necessity for deficiency.

[Rick Walker]

My HRT is prescribed by an endocrinologist due to having low test levels. Like I said in the post, my test levels a year ago were around 200. I am monitored via blood tests every 3 months, and my medical insurance pays for all of it including the prescription testosterone injections.

Prior to being on HRT, my cholesterol levels had sky-rocketed due to low test. Once back to the good levels, my total cholesterol dropped well under 200 and my HDL went into the high 60s. Joe is right, low test is as bad for you as excessive test.

Education is key. The result of my test levels going from 200 to over 1000 have been increases in the gym, no doubt. But try lifting 4 days a week and doing cardio the other 3, working, being a full time graduate student, father, and husband with a test level in the 200s. It doesn't work. I was exhausted by 5 pm and my lifts were tanking, as was my libido. HRT literally saved my life.

Do I compete in drug tested events? Nope, even though I could with a medical waiver, I don't. 

Flame away. 

[king crusher]

26 minutes ago, Rick Walker said:

My HRT is prescribed by an endocrinologist due to having low test levels. Like I said in the post, my test levels a year ago were around 200. I am monitored via blood tests every 3 months, and my medical insurance pays for all of it including the prescription testosterone injections.

Prior to being on HRT, my cholesterol levels had sky-rocketed due to low test. Once back to the good levels, my total cholesterol dropped well under 200 and my HDL went into the high 60s. Joe is right, low test is as bad for you as excessive test.

Education is key. The result of my test levels going from 200 to over 1000 have been increases in the gym, no doubt. But try lifting 4 days a week and doing cardio the other 3, working, being a full time graduate student, father, and husband with a test level in the 200s. It doesn't work. I was exhausted by 5 pm and my lifts were tanking, as was my libido. HRT literally saved my life.

Do I compete in drug tested events? Nope, even though I could with a medical waiver, I don't. 

Flame away. 

It seems like every guy mid 40s andcup who still lift weights are on prescribed PED's now days. A test of 200 is plenty high to live your life to its fullest.  A level of 1200 is not normal.  That's a level you see in people on Ped's....like you are.

Your diet probably changed along with spending more time exercising.  Test wouldn't change your blood levels. 

 

I'd be interested to know my levels. Life long natural lifter and 40 now. It's not a part of a regular blood workup though so I have no idea. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, king crusher said:

It seems like every guy mid 40s andcup who still lift weights are on prescribed PED's now days. A test of 200 is plenty high to live your life to its fullest.  A level of 1200 is not normal.  That's a level you see in people on Ped's....like you are.

Your diet probably changed along with spending more time exercising.  Test wouldn't change your blood levels. 

 

I'd be interested to know my levels. Life long natural lifter and 40 now. It's not a part of a regular blood workup though so I have no idea. 

200 is not a good level and everyone is different in how they feel at certain levels. I am also 40. My test has been low, surprisingly, since my 20s. How am I so big and strong? I do not know, and neither does the doctor. I take nothing because I feel no ill effects from being low in any way . Some do though. I refuse to take any drug until I start feeling ill  effects. It’s a personal choice.

[king crusher]

1 hour ago, Joseph Sullivan said:

200 is not a good level and everyone is different in how they feel at certain levels. I am also 40. My test has been low, surprisingly, since my 20s. How am I so big and strong? I do not know, and neither does the doctor. I take nothing because I feel no ill effects from being low in any way . Some do though. I refuse to take any drug until I start feeling ill  effects. It’s a personal choice.

Exactly.  Your case is NOT rare. Lots of people with "low" T can still build size and strength.  Getting on gear is getting on gear. Whether its bought from a doctor, a local gym rat or china. Doctors are now basically drug dealers. Hence why this country has a huge problem with prescription drugs.  Another reason for low T is obesity and we all know that's a massive problem in all industrialized countries. 

A lot of guys go in for ED and think it's their test levels when in reality it's a combination of being overweight and having arteries that are narrowing, which will eventually lead to a heart attack. 

[king crusher]

I have no issue with people taking what they want, doesnt effect me. But when he was on his high horse saying how these guys shouldn't be taking this and that if they have kids and a wife yadda yadda and he himself is taking the same stuff, I find that a bit amusing to say the least. And again, there is no point comparing PED's to any OTC meds, to do so is just silly. 

Taking testosterone can lead to prostate and other cancers, but plenty of things can cause cancer it seems so carry on.

Edited January 13, 2019 by king crusher

[king crusher]

Yeah I agree with what you're saying but it's also like a guy preaching how smoking crack is bad but secretly just doing a little bit in the garage lol

 

Okay I'm done talking about this 

[Bornintothe]

This got out of hand quickly. 

[Hubgeezer]

A wise man once said:

”For every PED you take, God takes an hour of your life and gives it to Louie Simmons.”

[Aleksandar Milosevic]

People need to realize that low testosterone levels lead to earlier death and deterioration of almost all markers. Let's not even speak of the mental health effects, loss of libido etc. Having low testosterone levels is probably the worst thing for a man.

What you are saying King, is that Rich should suffer and let his health go down the drain, so he could remain "clean" in the eyes of someone he doesn't care one bit about? And you have to understand that 200 mg per two weeks is a very, VERY low dose. 500 mg per week is the starting point for sports performance and muscle building. We're talking about professional athletes who are abusing hormones, going to several grams per week, while weighing 400+ lbs. 

My stance is this, we need to have tested and untested federations for every sport. When you get caught using in a tested federation, you don't get DQd, fined etc., you go to prison and you're never allowed to compete in the sport again. Users against users, natural athletes against natural athletes. But that's just wishful thinking.

 

[James Fuller]

As far as hitching on Deadlifts goes, I'd say NO HITCHING until you turn Pro in Strongman. I competed in Powerlifting before going into Strongman and I'm SO GLAD I DID! I think its just too easy for guys to overtrain with a hitching style. I think those of us who Powerlifted before going into Strongman respected the Deadlift more if that makes any sense.  CAN someone not compete in Powerlifting and learn to do the Strongman style Deadlift without overtraining?? Of course. MOST people I see training for Strongman go too heavy, too often. Making no hitching mandatory until the Pro level would help focusing on cleaner Deadlift form which will reduce injury rates by holding athletes back. By the time they turn Pro, they will have enough training and experience to start hitching with their Deadlifts.

As far as TRT therapy, its good for men just as Estrogen therapy is good for women: its two sides of the same coin. As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

[king crusher]

45 minutes ago, James Fuller said:

As far as hitching on Deadlifts goes, I'd say NO HITCHING until you turn Pro in Strongman. I competed in Powerlifting before going into Strongman and I'm SO GLAD I DID! I think its just too easy for guys to overtrain with a hitching style. I think those of us who Powerlifted before going into Strongman respected the Deadlift more if that makes any sense.  CAN someone not compete in Powerlifting and learn to do the Strongman style Deadlift without overtraining?? Of course. MOST people I see training for Strongman go too heavy, too often. Making no hitching mandatory until the Pro level would help focusing on cleaner Deadlift form which will reduce injury rates by holding athletes back. By the time they turn Pro, they will have enough training and experience to start hitching with their Deadlifts.

As far as TRT therapy, its good for men just as Estrogen therapy is good for women: its two sides of the same coin. As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

Not sure who you're talking about but I'm 40 and have been training hard and naturally for 23 years. I will never mess with hormones and take anything. What is natural is for a mans testosterone to go down when he ages. That's life, deal with it. Test levels of males have dropped over the last century due to the obesity epidemic. Being overweight lowers test among other things. Maybe people should address those possibilities before jumping on drugs. I know that's a far out concept in America where everyone would rather throw a drug at their symptoms without addressing the root cause. It's highly unlikely most of the people with an opinion other than this will change their mind but I'm fine agreeing to disagree. 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by king crusher

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Not sure who you're talking about but I'm 40 and have been training hard and naturally for 23 years. I will never mess with hormones and take anything. What is natural is for a mans testosterone to go down when he ages. That's life, deal with it. Test levels of males have dropped over the last century due to the obesity epidemic. Being overweight lowers test among other things. Maybe people should address those possibilities before jumping on drugs. I know that's a far out concept in America where everyone would rather throw a drug at their symptoms without addressing the root cause. It's highly unlikely most of the people with an opinion other than this will change their mind but I'm fine agreeing to disagree. 

 

 

It’s not even the obesity epidemic. It’s the hormone altering chemicals in everyday products in our homes. Bisphenol A , the chemicals in plastics, shower curtains that are plastic, the chemicals in tin can liners. All these have been shown to Lower testosterone and increase estrogen levels in males. We are living in a world that is bombarded with synthetic chemicals pouring on our systems from the moment we wake up and the moment we go to bed. Our food has been stripped of nutrients, and our air is contaminated with heavy metals such as barium, strontium and aluminum. It’s all by design. But, as the others have stated, having low test is just as detrimental to the system as having too high. Heart disease, depression, sluggish, no drive, no confidence or fight in the dog. If one needs HRT to remain feeling normal... I say go for it. I can tell you from my fathers personal experience. He’s 63. Felt like jumping off a bridge he was so depressed. Doctor put him on 200 mg of test every other week, and he is like a kid again. Live well or live like crap? I say if he can live well, feel strong and desire sex, then have at it. 

[king crusher]

Heart disease is this countries biggest killer and it ain't due to low test my friend.  Its due to the western diet which is an enormous amount of meat, dairy, oil, fried foods etc. If people overhauled their diet they would feel a whole lot better. 

We live in a youth obsessed world now, hence why a 60 some year old would want to act like hes 20. Im all for staying active as the years go on but messing with your natural hormones is not the answer.  There are clear issues with doing so, and there is no free lunch. 

This countries idea of vegetables are French fries. That is the truth, french fries are the United states number one consumed vegetable lol. That's sad.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, king crusher said:

Heart disease is this countries biggest killer and it ain't due to low test my friend.  Its due to the western diet which is an enormous amount of meat, dairy, oil, fried foods etc. If people overhauled their diet they would feel a whole lot better. 

We live in a youth obsessed world now, hence why a 60 some year old would want to act like hes 20. Im all for staying active as the years go on but messing with your natural hormones is not the answer.  There are clear issues with doing so, and there is no free lunch. 

This countries idea of vegetables are French fries. That is the truth, french fries are the United states number one consumed vegetable lol. That's sad.

 

You do realize that low test increases risk of heart disease substantially, right? You are generalizing and painting with a narrow brush with that statement. There are MANY men in this world who are low that aren’t “fat” and to state that a man shouldn’t still be able to feel good at 63, when there is quite a bit of life left, is not your call to make for them. If it’s being done to get one to normal levels, there should be no issues with it for anyone,  as well as very little, if any, negative health issues. You don’t want to take HRT When you get older? That’s fine! You may feel different one day, when you aren’t feeling quite like you are now. I myself, take zero drugs of any kind. Not even a multi vitamin. That’s my choice. Just as it’s anotjer mans choice to bring his hormones to normal levels through a doctors care for therapeutic reasons. Someone’s quality of life or lack thereof is a personal choice. Abuse roids? Heck no! Take small doses of test in the man who is low for return to normal levels? If that’s what they want! 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hopefully said:

I dont quite get it, normal levels for a 40-60 year old man is not the same as a 20-year olds. The term normal is a little misplaced here if used in that context. 

There are normal set  ranges. The doctors care tells you what that should be. We are beating a dead horse here. It’s legal, doctors do hormone replacement therapy on both men and women. Choose to do it or don’t choose to do it. As long as a doctor is prescribing it and monitoring your levels. 

[king crusher]

Like I said before, it's just a way for doctors to tap another money faucet. Making aging guys think they need this with commercials and radio spots etc. When in reality their problem is not testosterone. Most Americans are overweight so it's a much bigger problem than you think. Even ppl who think they are not overweight,  are.

[bdckr]

3 hours ago, James Fuller said:

As far as hitching on Deadlifts goes, I'd say NO HITCHING until you turn Pro in Strongman. I competed in Powerlifting before going into Strongman and I'm SO GLAD I DID! I think its just too easy for guys to overtrain with a hitching style. I think those of us who Powerlifted before going into Strongman respected the Deadlift more if that makes any sense.  CAN someone not compete in Powerlifting and learn to do the Strongman style Deadlift without overtraining?? Of course. MOST people I see training for Strongman go too heavy, too often. Making no hitching mandatory until the Pro level would help focusing on cleaner Deadlift form which will reduce injury rates by holding athletes back. By the time they turn Pro, they will have enough training and experience to start hitching with their Deadlifts.

As far as TRT therapy, its good for men just as Estrogen therapy is good for women: its two sides of the same coin. As a 47 year old, I don't want to hear ANY negative opinion on the matter from someone in their 20s or 30s. To be clear, I am NOT on TRT but, until you are in your 40s with Low T, you are at best talking out yer ass. The day will come when the energy or spring in your step will be GONE and you WILL start to consider TRT. Remember, us older guys have been the age you are now but, you ain't been where we are yet. 

 

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=whi+estrogen+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Comparing it to estrogen replacement doesn't make the case you think it does.

There are risks from estrogen replacement therapy, which is why the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) was groundbreaking in discouraging its use as preventative therapy.  HRT is used now only in women who are symptomatic where the benefits outweigh the risks.